Minvitational 8 - OVER before 611

[The Fonz]

A quick note here- it just goes to show how valuable it can be, if towns can manage to avoid claiming prematurely. I think a single extra claim in this game could well have swung it hard in the scum's favour.

Btw Adel, having read the peanut gallery, could you elaborate on why you had me as scum after shaft.ed died?

[shaft.ed]

Bah it seems me not being able to read my role PM correctly swayed my scum team away from the optimal end game play of killing a mason and countering-claiming cicero. Sorry about that guys.

Also I loved this:

[Jitsu]

You should post more then

You are an excellent player Jitsu, I want you to play more because of that, but don't want you to burn out.

Thanks!

I do like to play because the game is so cerebral and thought-provoking. And I really couldn't have asked for a better set of fellow castmates in my three games to date. I've been very fortunate to have played with some of the best players on the site, and I believe that has let me learn a lot in the span of those games.

I would like to play a bit more often, but I confess it takes me a lot of effort just to keep up with a single game (especially in the first couple days or so), and I'd rather just to try play one game really well, than play three or four not so well. I constantly marvel at how many of you can play several games at a time and do it well.

I would have played more games by now, if they hadn't all lasted a long time. I reached endgame in two and D4 in this one, and that luck surely won't hold over time.

Also, with a wonderful three year old son to watch over (btw, congrats again Billy on your little one!), working on the campaign for the 4E D&D group I DM, and learning Japanese, I'm already wishing I had more free time as it were. I'm going to take a couple of weeks off to work on my D&D campaign, but I'll be around, and I'll hop back into another game soon. I'll certainly look forward to playing with any of you guys (or gals) again.

[Jitsu]

Bah it seems me not being able to read my role PM correctly swayed my scum team away from the optimal end game play of killing a mason and countering-claiming cicero. Sorry about that guys.

Like I said, mistakes happen. I'd play with you again in a heartbeat. Even without your PM snafu, I should not have claimed Vanilla after Kison did. After the stack of Vanilla bodies started piling up, I should have stuck with the original plan and figured out that claiming just about any power role would have had a better chance at winning than claiming Vanilla and taking the chance that Fonz was sitting on power. I don't think the chances were great for us regardless of what I did, but I should have been more proactive in trying to steal the game away from the town.

Also I loved this:

So did I -- Kison rocks

[Jitsu]

A quick note here- it just goes to show how valuable it can be, if towns can manage to avoid claiming prematurely. I think a single extra claim in this game could well have swung it hard in the scum's favour.

No question. The claims all happened really at the optimal time for the town, and I think that was a significant factor in the town win. You holding back on your claim was pure genius also. I don't like to play Monday-morning quarterback, but I'd like to think I would have played differently had some of the claims come earlier (especially yours).

[Jitsu]

I wanted to draw the nk N1.

The funny thing is that you were probably the first player we tossed out of the running (check the scumchat thread).

[shaft.ed]

A quick note here- it just goes to show how valuable it can be, if towns can manage to avoid claiming prematurely. I think a single extra claim in this game could well have swung it hard in the scum's favour.

No question. The claims all happened really at the optimal time for the town, and I think that was a significant factor in the town win. You holding back on your claim was pure genius also. I don't like to play Monday-morning quarterback, but I'd like to think I would have played differently had some of the claims come earlier (especially yours).

This is true. The Masons especially did a superb job of hanging around until endgame where their confirmed innocence would be quite powerful.

[PokerFace]

I read the game and like it. To bad massclaiming hurt the scum with power role count. Wish I could have been a part of this game. Oh well.

No whammies... No Whammies Stop!



Stop on

Whammies

Loud Mouth Lee

Oman

[Adel]

does anyone feel like nominating The Fonz or someone else for a scummy based off of this game?

[shaft.ed]

does anyone feel like nominating The Fonz or someone else for a scummy based off of this game?

I really don't think anyone deserves a scummy from this game. If anyone it should be the mason pairing for looking scummy/non-threatening enough to avoid NK but townie enough to avoid ever being considered for lynch.

[Erg0]

I think Oman or Erg0 might be the easiest D1 lynch but let's see what develops.

Wow, you need to meta me better

[Jitsu]

I think Oman or Erg0 might be the easiest D1 lynch but let's see what develops.

Wow, you need to meta me better

I wasn't buying that either -- I know you too well from Vollkan's game

[cicero]

Sorry I havent posted much yet in aftergame. Im vacationing and time on the computer is somewhat less than usual. Anyway, thanks for a good game everybody. My main comment on this game is that it was lackluster. Once Adel and Simenon died it seemed like all the air got sucked out of the room. I didn't have the motivation to cattle prod the game like I've been known to do, especially since as cop I was trying very hard not to be too much of a lightning rod. But weeks would go by with barely any posting and then everything got done three days before deadline. What do you attribute this to? Are we burning out as players? Or is it a function of the fact that the game took place in the summer when we were all out away from our screens? Or is it simply that the vanilla townies all died and everyone else was trying to avoid being lightning rods too?

[The Fonz]

Well for me, it was to do with the fact that I'd laid out my case, I was absolutely convinced of it and unwilling to move off of it, but no-one was listenining.

[shaft.ed]

For me it was because I was scum and I felt that letting the game drag was helping my cause, which it was if not for that meddling serial killer and his dog.

And Erg0, I think I had the wrong impression of your playstyle from House. After day 1 a lot of people were ganging up on you in that game.

[Jitsu]

For me it was because I was scum and I felt that letting the game drag was helping my cause, which it was if not for that meddling serial killer and his dog

Ditto. There were times I specifically let the game drag, and I intentionally did not talk much about Fonz's case on Shaft.ed (other than a vague "I think it has merit"), well, because it was accurate and damning. I certainly was not about to draw a lot of attention to it.

You know, I have another theory. The town seems to be beating themselves up a lot over not being more proactive and stirring things up. Letting things proceed slowly and waiting until near deadline could have been disastrous. But, in reality, if you think about it, on the dawn of Day 2, of the people alive: 3 were scum, 1 was the SK, and 3 of the remaining 5 were town power roles. So that makes 7 of 9 people that had a vested interest in not standing out and working things from behind the scenes. Is it any wonder then, that there was a lot of conservative play? So don't beat yourselves up too much.

For the scum, it was a double-edged sword. Being able to avoid getting lynched D1 and D2 really denied a lot of information to everyone early (town and scum alike). Nailing the first scum seems to be the most important so that you can examine their relationships with everyone else, and it definitely helped us at first. The problem, of course, was by D3, that we were vulnerable to a massclaim and could not really use knowledge of the setup to our advantage much.

We as scum were taking full advantage of the lack of activity and firm votes to stall the game. With a number of people on the wrong track, we saw no need to correct them, and let them point fingers at each other (while still jumping on mistakes made by the town). There really was no need for us to shift out of that strategy (I think it was working pretty well), until the massclaim came out suddenly just before deadline. I really didn't have enough time to switch gears, analyze the situation, and determine the optimal strategy -- that's how I blew the chance to counterclaim to try to save the game for the scum. Being my first scum game, my knowledge in the area of what/how to counterclaim was pretty lacking.

I agree with earlier comment: if the shit-stirrers (e.g., Adel and Simenon) would have lived longer, it would have been bad for us -- presuming Adel could have avoided a D2 lynch.

Anyway, it was a good game. I think that the town did get a little lucky, but you guys DID do enough to win, even if was mostly choosing was the power roles doing well to stay hidden and claiming at just the right time. We totally didn't see the masons coming (other than Shaft.ed and I seeing a potential CKD/Cicero masonry D1), and knowing what I know about Erg0's play from Vollkan's game, I probably should have picked up on that.

It's kind of interesting for me to note that in the recent time period, with the "bombastic" style prevalent (to use Adel's term), that this game turned out to be completely opposite of that after D1.

[Jitsu]

Oh, and by the way, since the PMs weren't posted, I thought I'd mention that the three of us did have role names:

Shaft.ed = Nibbler
Jitsu = DrippingGoofball
Kison/Shanba = Guardian

[Jitsu]

Shaft.ed title should be:

NK Immune Investigation Immune GF

[Oman]

I'm not as worried about Oman,

YOU SHOULD BE!

Oman weaker player, higher probability power role.

Weaker?.


Great flash btw

[Adel]

I'm not as worried about Oman,

YOU SHOULD BE!

Oman weaker player, higher probability power role.

Weaker?.

let them continue to underestimate you, it means more wins for you in the future.

~~~

btw, a game I am in, Open 86 - Lovers Multiball needs

3

replacements. PM url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/profile. ... ile&u=7538]destructor[/url] if you are interested.
(he said I could advertise)

[Jitsu]

I'm not as worried about Oman,

YOU SHOULD BE!

I specifically try not to underestimate anyone (I think it is foolish to do so), but it is true that I was most worried about Adel, Erg0, Vollkan, and CKD, because I got the impression from their prior posts that they all understood my playstyle well. You probably do also, but I just had less actual evidence of that than I did from the other players.

Actually though, I know you are a good player when you are engaged on your game. I actually had a good feeling about you for most of D1. You had some insightful comments and your conclusions looked sound. It was when you started to disengage and wanted to take a backseat that got me onto you. When you named your scumteam, saying how sure you were when you really didn't have much of a case -- that's what started to make me think you were an SK. When Kison's kill on you failed, there was no doubt in my mind you were the SK. (Of course, knowing who the mafia were helped a lot.)

In my humble opinion, if you were stay engaged and play the game more like you did early on D1, I think you would be a very good player. To be sure, in this game, you had two of the three mafia figured out after the first two days, and that's pretty good in my book.

[shaft.ed]

Oman weaker player, higher probability power role.

Weaker?.

weaker is not an insult in an allstar game. I'd probably put myself at the bottom of the roster as well. But I was right that you had a non-vanilla role, and should have pushed for your lynch over vollkan, but I didn't want to make waves.

[Guardian]

You are Nibbler, the mafia godfather. Your two goons are DrippingGoofball (X) and Guardian (Y). You can be night killed, but as Godfather, you will show up as 'not mafia' to sane cops, and 'mafia' to insane cops.

One of you three may PM me each night with who you want to kill. I will accept the choice from {Nibbler, DrippingGoofBall, Guardian} in that order of precedence if I receive multiple PMs. Whomever PMs me, or whomever's PM I accept, counts as making the kill.

You may talk pregame and at night HERE.

You win when all members not in your group have been eliminated, and at least one member of your group remains.

===

You are DrippingGoofball, a mafia goon. Your godfather, the almighty Nibbler, is W. Your fellow goon is Guardian (Y).

One of you three may PM me each night with who you want to kill. I will accept the choice from {Nibbler, DrippingGoofBall, Guardian} in that order of precedence if I receive multiple PMs. Whomever PMs me, or whomever's PM I accept, counts as making the kill.

You may talk pregame and at night HERE.

You win when all members not in your group have been eliminated, and at least one member of your group remains.

===

You are Guardian, a mafia goon. Your godfather, the almighty Nibbler, is W. Your fellow goon is DrippingGoofball (X).

One of you three may PM me each night with who you want to kill. I will accept the choice from {Nibbler, DrippingGoofBall, Guardian} in that order of precedence if I receive multiple PMs. Whomever PMs me, or whomever's PM I accept, counts as making the kill.

You may talk pregame and at night HERE.

You win when all members not in your group have been eliminated, and at least one member of your group remains.

===

You are Bluehost, a Serial Killer. You messed up every game of mafia back then; why should now be any different?

You can kill a player each night, and you cannot be night killed. You may also role-block a player each night.

You want domination of mafiascum:

You win when you have assured that you will never be lynched or killed.

===

You are a cop. You may PM me the name of a player each night, and I will tell you if they are mafia or not mafia. I will not confirm or deny your sanity.

You are a member of the town. You win when all players who are not a member of the town have been eliminated.

MOD NOTE: SANE

===

You are a mason with B. You know he is town, and he knows you are town.

You may talk during the day and night HERE.

You are a member of the town. You win when all players who are not a member of the town have been eliminated.

===

You are a mason with A. You know he is town, and he knows you are town.

You may talk during the day and night HERE.

You are a member of the town. You win when all players who are not a member of the town have been eliminated.

===

You are a townie in this... odd... "town."

You are a member of the town. You win when all players who are not a member of the town have been eliminated.

===

1 godfather
2 goon
3 goon
4 sk
5 cop (sane)
6 mason
7 mason
89012 townie

[cicero]

Guardian, I love that you made the SK bluehost. Hilarious. Also I think the addition of roleblocking to the SK was a great touch. One of those simple innovations that made me go "now why is it that I would have never thought of doing that?"

Great job. And thanks for modding us.

[Adel]

seriously though, Guardian is a fucking great mod. Asking for a mass role-nameclaim would've been suicide for scum. I think the real test of a normal set-up is if player's following Pie's rules would lose it, then it is a good & balanced set-up. Call it: Adel's No-Pie theorem of good game design. It is real justice that he was the mod in this game.
I actually nominated BM to be the mod, mostly because I would rather play with Guardian the player (or one of his alts) than BM the player, and BM is a great mod in his own right. I wish that BM had been involved in this game somehow though, I think on the whole he has made a real contribution to this site.

.. and I wish I would've lived long to play with the rest of y'all.

~one love