Mafia 81: SSW II - Game over!

[Johoohno]

Vote count

(13 players alive = 7 to lynch before deadline)
(4) xyzzy – Mr. Flay, OhGodMyLife, Flameaxe, Korts
(2) Grimmy – farside22, Phoebus
(1) Mr. Flay – Grimmy
(1) Korts – xyzzy
(1) Jenter Brolincani – Nitro Styles
(1) OhGodMyLife – Rogue Shenanigans

Not voting:

Jenter Brolincani, killa seven, SpyreX

Deadline:

Monday 9 June 1:00 PM (GMT -5 according to forum clock)

[Phoebus]

Day starts annoy me.

Waiting for night, perhaps?

Cute.

[OhGodMyLife]

flameaxe, farside, nitro styles, jenter, killa seven.

these players haven't added anything at all.

grimmy, phoebus

these players have posted enough, but haven't actually done anything for the game in those posts.

phoebus at least was kind enough to explain why in his most recent post. however, i think you should start moving the pace along yourself before you request mass prods. i too got prodded while i slept, although i have been one of the most active posters in this game.

[Korts]

I agree with OGML about his last part.

[SpyreX]

I don't like that we are being caught up in only one thing here though. Can't see anyone as being all that scummy right now because ZZ seems to be forced on the defence and not much else seems to be taking place.

I, personally, am trying to watch what everyone is doing but

nothing

has been even remotely as scummy as this whole zz situation. It's not even the fact that the initial vote was a policy lynch as much as how transparent and misdirected the defenses of it have been.

Aside from that, the only other player that's -really- catching my eye is Phoebus.

1.) "active lurking"
2.) The prods when he's given no real content.
3.) This one really gets me:

Well, to be entirely honest...I saw something about Grimmy but don't remember what.
For now, he's not done anything to make me want to unvote.

So, you're voting for someone but you dont remember why yet, somehow, he's still holding your vote? I dont get this at all.

That aside, ZZ has been far more scummy to this point and the only reason I haven't voted is because I'm hoping for more discussion and dont want to push the tide to him being hammered yet.

[OhGodMyLife]

xyzzy isn't near hammering range yet, SpyreX. To me it seems like you're trying to look like you support the xyzzy lynch without leaving a real paper trail. Its time to put your vote where your mouth is.

[SpyreX]

Putting my vote where my mouth is? Wow. Even though I may agree with you that he's scummy, I =still- dont like the way you're trying to push others to make their decision.

I think ZZ is scummy based on his actions, not some kind of awesome bandwagon I feel the need to be a part of.

ZZ has not defended himself well, or at all. I was hoping for a real defense of those actions and, if thats not forthcoming.

Vote xyzzy

[OhGodMyLife]

Giving a laundry list of reasoning for xyzzyscum but then not voting xyzzy was starting to look scummy itself. I wasn't trying to push you to make a decision, as you had clearly already made the decision. I was pushing you to stop sitting on the sidelines and sitting on your vote instead of using it.

You're right, the bandwagon doesn't make xyzzy scummy, his actions do, and thats what draws the bandwagon.

[farside22]

flameaxe, farside, nitro styles, jenter, killa seven.

these players haven't added anything at all.

grimmy, phoebus

these players have posted enough, but haven't actually done anything for the game in those posts.

phoebus at least was kind enough to explain why in his most recent post. however, i think you should start moving the pace along yourself before you request mass prods. i too got prodded while i slept, although i have been one of the most active posters in this game.

Were the players that came in and just vote and disappear on this list? You are certainly pushy in this game. Deadline is Monday and most vote will be lynched. Are you trying to get the lurkers to talk more or trying to get xzzy lynched before anyone is paying attention.

FOS: OMGL

I'm not liking your tactic at the moment sir.

[OhGodMyLife]

Flameaxe and nitro, the people who voted and disappeared, are indeed on that list.

If I were trying to get zz lynched before anyone noticed, why would I call out the people who aren't participating? It seems that at this point, if I let the game stagnate my xyzzy lynch would go through unchallenged.

I'll note here that this is another chainsaw defense type of tactic. You're not actually defending xyzzy, just attacking me.

[Rogue Shenanigans]

I'll note here that this is another chainsaw defense type of tactic. You're not actually defending xyzzy, just attacking me.

Ever think that defending ZZ isn't his main point? That maybe its the method of your attacks that he finds scummy and not the subject of them?

[OhGodMyLife]

I'll note here that this is another chainsaw defense type of tactic. You're not actually defending xyzzy, just attacking me.

Ever think that defending ZZ isn't his main point? That maybe its the method of your attacks that he finds scummy and not the subject of them?

Thanks for 1) not responding to my point about your OWN chainsaw defense of xyzzy and 2) answering for farside the same way you answered an attack against xyzzy earlier in the game for him.

I'm seeing a xyzzy-rogue-farside axis of evil here.

[Rogue Shenanigans]

I'll note here that this is another chainsaw defense type of tactic. You're not actually defending xyzzy, just attacking me.

Ever think that defending ZZ isn't his main point? That maybe its the method of your attacks that he finds scummy and not the subject of them?

Thanks for 1) not responding to my point about your OWN chainsaw defense of xyzzy and 2) answering for farside the same way you answered an attack against xyzzy earlier in the game for him.

I'm seeing a xyzzy-rogue-farside axis of evil here.

Anyone who sees your posts as scummy or attacks you in any way is mafia?

Well done, you just cracked the case.

Talk about chainsaw defences...

[OhGodMyLife]

Wrong. You guys aren't scummy simply for attacking me, you're scummy for attacking me

because I'm after xyzzy

, and especially because you don't offer any evidence for why I

shouldn't be after xyzzy.

[Rogue Shenanigans]

Wrong. You guys aren't scummy simply for attacking me, you're scummy for attacking me

because I'm after xyzzy

, and especially because you don't offer any evidence for why I

shouldn't be after xyzzy.

1) You can't prove a negitive.

2) It's your methods I object to, I am apathetic at this point toward the target.

[Mr. Flay]

OGML, I think that's just what Flay said. We still have today, saturday and sunday.

Well, it is and it isn't. I somehow thought we were on a 72-hour Day, excluding Saturdays and Sundays. That it happened to work out to ~72 hours from my post is just happenstance.

If xyzzy turns up scum, my primary suspect for D2 will be Phoebus, who has largely ignored xy and has some seriously shoddy reasoning (which is to say, essentially none) on Grimmy. However, Phoebus is scatterbrained by nature; whether this is cultivated or not is up for debate. Would support a Phoebus lynch D1 too, but it's less likely at present.

If xyzzy comes up town, I'll be looking at Korts and Spryex, right now, though that can change depending on the end of the bandwagon(s). I'll explain more of why later.

[OhGodMyLife]

I am apathetic at this point toward the target.

Your actions strongly indicate otherwise.

EXHIBIT A: Jumping in to respond to a point made against xyzzy

Tell me xyzzy, how does calling for a policy lynch start any kind of useful discussion aside from the fact that we're now discussing how scummy you look because of it.

It was his first post on day one, a simple bandwagon to get things moving out of the random stage as fast as possible. Thats how I see it at least Don't read too much into it.

EXHIBIT B: Making excuses for xyzzy and engaging in the chainsaw defense

Early discussion inducing votes are commonplace and in a game with short days, they are useful.

I don't like that we are being caught up in only one thing here though. Can't see anyone as being all that scummy right now because ZZ seems to be forced on the defence and not much else seems to be taking place.

OGML seems to be pushing this rather heavily.

Vote:OhGodMyLife

[Rogue Shenanigans]

It was your methods and arguments that I objected to in those posts.

At no point did I say "Hai guise, ZZ is obv town"

[OhGodMyLife]

Flay, what do you think of rogue shenanigans?

[Korts]

Rogue Shenanigans is obviously avoiding answering OGML's accusation of chainsaw defense. This is incredibly scummy. I disagree that farside has gone and done the same thing, though, I'm not seeing so much of a chainsaw defense there, OGML.

unvote, vote: Rogue Shenanigans

[Rogue Shenanigans]

Rogue Shenanigans is obviously avoiding answering OGML's accusation of chainsaw defense. This is incredibly scummy. I disagree that farside has gone and done the same thing, though, I'm not seeing so much of a chainsaw defense there, OGML.

unvote, vote: Rogue Shenanigans

1) I have answered the accusation. By saying that I do not have an opinion on ZZ's alignment and that its OGML methods of arguing themselves that have warrented my attacks.

2) If you are going to try to have me lynched on the basis that you think I am trying to defend scum, don't try to push it without first confirming the player in question that I am supposed to be defending.

[farside22]

Rogue Shenanigans is obviously avoiding answering OGML's accusation of chainsaw defense. This is incredibly scummy. I disagree that farside has gone and done the same thing, though, I'm not seeing so much of a chainsaw defense there, OGML.

unvote, vote: Rogue Shenanigans

Even I disagree with this. I am not attacking OMGL first of all. I'm just saying he is aggressively attacking zz and pushing for the lynch hard. I'm not used to it. I'm not defending zz either. As for this comment I think Korts lost it or is scum.

unvote:
vote: Korts

The above make no sense and I don't think he has a clue. He is trying to look helpful townie a little too hard.

[Mr. Flay]

Flay, what do you think of rogue shenanigans?

Mildly protown. The one thing that really chafed me was his willingness to drop his vote upon being questioned about it, but it's awfully early game to get bent out of shape about that. Worth a closer look later if still alive.

I'll be pleased as punch when Jenter, Flameaxe, Nitro Styles and killa seven get their butts in gear and participate more.

[SpyreX]

I'm gonna be sporadic until late tomorrow - I'm going to try and check in, but if not I'm giving a synopsis of my feelings so far on whats going on (needless to say, my vote isn't changing).

Why ZZ is scummy -

I'm not going to rehash everything involving the policy lynch and the whole set of terrible defenses brought up trying to justify it. However, one thing above all that stands out and really makes me go hmm...

i'm voting for the person who overall has acted the scummiest. At this point in the game, not everyone has even posted, so that's not a very large pool of info to choose from.

At this point, he has his vote on Korts. Korts had what even I could see as a quasi-legimate question about how I worded things and, once -I- replied, removed it. Now, there are other Korts related developments that come later in our discussions, but at this point he's basing this off one thing Korts said versus all other points of discussion. I really, really dont like this.

Why Phoebus is scummy -

This is an exact copy of what I said before, and he hasn't said anything that addresses any of it.

1.) "active lurking"
2.) The prods when he's given no real content.
3.) Voting for someone but not remembering why but not doing anything that wanted to make him unvote.

Why Rogue Shenanigans is scummy -

One thing that really gets me in games is the "bystander defense" - I can understand using what was -said- to try and putting it into context (Flay and Rogue both did this in explaning why I didn't have an "obvious scum slipup by seeing how what I said fit in with the other things I said). However, Rogue later jumps past that into a mental-defense of ZZ -

It was his first post on day one, a simple bandwagon to get things moving out of the random stage as fast as possible. Thats how I see it at least Don't read too much into it.

I -do not- like this. No WIFOM or anything else, at this point in the game defending someone on WHY they may or may have not done something is bad for two major reasons to me:

1.) No one should be clear and you sure as hell shouldn't be defending WHY they did something without context.
2.) If they are scum, you are simply giving them a reason for a scummy action AND you are setting yourself up as a potential lynch when they die and flip scum.

With the addition of the "Chainsaw Defense" to me it looks like Rogue both defended ZZ and then turned around and starting attacking OGML who is, by far, the most aggressive ZZ hunter at the moment. That together really bugs me.

Distancing himself by saying he's attacking the methods and not because of the target -kind of- works but, with that one post that really reads as an unnecessary defense it bothers me.

My feelings on everyone else -

OGML - You are very aggressive, but so far I understand that you are not pigeonholing yourself and are watching ALL the players.

Korts - You seem to be spiraling; after a 'questionable' vote on me (which I understand at least) you've seemed more a parrot than trying to add to whats going on. I'm not liking it.

Farside - I'm very ambivalent. I understand your reasoning with Korts to a degree but your post on this page sits wrong. Something with the use of the quote there. I'm really not sure why.

Flay - Of the active players, right now I think you are the least scummiest. I'm not going OMG TOWN, but you definitely dont give be a bad vibe.

Me - I'm awesome.

Everyone else - Every other person has not posted enough or their posts have no personality that stands out. STOP LURKING FFS.

Thare we go!

[Rogue Shenanigans]

I -do not- like this. No WIFOM or anything else, at this point in the game defending someone on WHY they may or may have not done something is bad for two major reasons to me:

1.) No one should be clear and you sure as hell shouldn't be defending WHY they did something without context.
2.) If they are scum, you are simply giving them a reason for a scummy action

Notice this post on the first page, well before I dismiss ZZ's vote as just discussion based.

Flay, I seriously doubt this wagon will result in a lynch (though obviously with only 96 hours we need to be careful...), I wholly support wagoning early day one as much as possible.

This quote shows that.

1) ZZ never intended a lynch to come of this wagon. The other major reason for early wagons is discussion inducing.

2) I had context to make that call and I did not give any reasons to ZZ that were not already painfully obvious.