Mature Mafia: Game Over

[Coron]

Vote count:

mathcam(macros, phoebus, Talitha, pooky)-4
Raj(Elvis_knits, axelrod, glork) -3
DGB(Coron, raj) -2
logicticus(DGB)-1
Talitha(adel)-1
Pooky(mathcam)-1
Coron()
elvis_knits()
Phoebus()
Axelrod()

Ah, this reminds me of why I don't mod many games.

just so you know I don't really have any special insight into how voting works, I'm just running it the way I want pretty much because I'm that awesome.

Glork, I don't really think prodding the mechanics is the way to go here, I don't think we'll get too much out of it, instead I suggest scum hunting, unfortunately I spent some ungodly amount of class time on that vote count already, so I guess I might get there around lunchtime.

[Glork]

Fair 'nuff.


I'm pretty pleased with my rajvote, bee tee dubs.

[mathcam]

Wow, didn't realize I had 4 votes.

Macros' vote makes sense (he can), but I'm confused by the other 3. Phoebus votes me in a post where he describes how he thinks the scum likely to be responsible for editing zu's post is a non-native speaker -- I like to think of myself as rather proficient in the language.

Tally's vote is completely unexplained, and Pooky's vote was just an echo of Tally's -- to re-iterate, the fact that Pooky is contributing to a bandwagon without taking any of the responsibility for having to justify his vote is why I am currently voting for him.

If they're editing posts pell mell then they're cheating, if its somekind of role requirement then its not, common sense think is the key feature here. Emptyger expects us to possess a measure of it hence the "mature" mafia.

But I think it's a little naive to be like "Here's a game where all the rules are different! But you're expected to know the rules and follow them." For example, we all have mod powers and at least some of us have them worked in to our role. It's unclear the extent to which it's "legal" to edit posts, since typically one does not have useable mod powers in the middle of the game -- there's just no ethical frame of reference. My personal feeling is that whoever edited the post thought "Hey, I have mod powers, and since I'm scum, it behooves me to keep information hidden. I'll take away zu's role information," and not "Hey, I have mod powers, and no one will be able to catch me, so I'll deliberately break the rules of the game and edit someone else's post." I dislike the property of this game that I do not have a ruleset to use to distinguish between scummy actions and against-the-rules actions like this. Games need rules.

Cam

[elvis_knits]

I am unsure whether the people railing against our self-policing are likely to be scum or town. I think it is not productive though. I would consider anyone who cheats to have lost themselves the game. I'm not really scared that people are going to abuse the freedom we have been given. Perhaps I am too much of an optimistic, trusting person.

But basically, you have to accept that there is the possibility that people will cheat, and play or not play on those terms. There is nothing we can do about it other than decide not to play.

Also, I think mathcam needs another vote at the moment. What are you afraid will happen without a normal mod? Just by playing on this forum we agree to play by the normal rules. What are you so scared of? Or are you just trying to act like a townie who thinks the scum won't follow the rules?

unvote; vote mathcam

[logicticus]

I am unsure whether the people railing against our self-policing are likely to be scum or town. I think it is not productive though. I would consider anyone who cheats to have lost themselves the game. I'm not really scared that people are going to abuse the freedom we have been given. Perhaps I am too much of an optimistic, trusting person.

But basically, you have to accept that there is the possibility that people will cheat, and play or not play on those terms. There is nothing we can do about it other than decide not to play.

Also, I think mathcam needs another vote at the moment. What are you afraid will happen without a normal mod? Just by playing on this forum we agree to play by the normal rules. What are you so scared of? Or are you just trying to act like a townie who thinks the scum won't follow the rules?

unvote; vote mathcam

Thats 5 on Cam....2 more and he will be lynched.

I just dont see the case against him, I think he is a townie who is worried about what the scum could do with the editing of posts while a good majority of us realize there is nothing we can do about it and choose to go on scum hunting. So I would say his priorities are a bit out of whack at the moment, but that hardly makes him scum.

[Glork]

I more or less agree with Logic. I don't see anything malicious out of Cam's posts, and I'm not particularly fond of the backing of votes behind him.

Over/Under for number of scum on Cam's wagon right now is 1.5... Let's place some bets.

[Macros]

FoS: Macros

The whole "well we can't enforce it aside from lynching, so what's the point in harping on about it" thing reads, to me, that he's trying to egg the scums on into breaking rules that appear to be unenforcable.

sorry, but I'm being practical here, how can we get a modkill when it would appear theat emptyger has left us to our own devices? We need to assume people have enough integrity not to blatantly cheat, I'm sorry if you disagree but we have to get over this and carry on.

My vote on Cam was a joke on page one, where have the rest come from? I will have to do a re-read after I get my grub on.

[rajrhcpfreak]

a good majority of us realize there is nothing we can do about it and choose to go on scum hunting.

FOS: Adel

see post 96

all this talk about rules sounds useless. we all know the rules of mafia. we don't know the setup so we don't know who is supposed to use their modpowers. not to mention, we have no way of enforcing the rules. i only see writing rules as a way for scum to sculpt them around rules that benefit them. as an uninformed townsperson i have no clue what rules to have in this game but the normal rules for mafia. i also see writing rules is a way to slow the game down and keep the town from scum hunting. the longer the scum can keep the town away from scum hunting the longer they can wait for a townsperson to say something stupid and cause a miss lynch.

so his last sentence convinces me to vote for him.

unvote

but that would put him at lynch -1.
ill hold off on voting for him till tonight. so we don't rush the lynch.

[Glork]

Macros: Over or Under on # of scums on Camwagon?

RAJ: Over or Under on # of scums on Camwagon?

[rajrhcpfreak]

well i have a feeling macros is going to unvote after he reads the thread. then i am pretty confident that it will be under.

if he stays on it then i dont know. it might be over when we lynch him.




its hard because i want to beleive that pooky tally and ek are town. but i know i shouldnt trust them.

[mathcam]

Also, I think mathcam needs another vote at the moment. What are you afraid will happen without a normal mod? Just by playing on this forum we agree to play by the normal rules.

Do the normal rules include editing posts? Do you think that whoever chose to edit the first post is deliberately breaking our perceived rules of the game?

I think he is a townie who is worried about what the scum could do with the editing of posts while a good majority of us realize there is nothing we can do about it and choose to go on scum hunting. So I would say his priorities are a bit out of whack at the moment, but that hardly makes him scum.

I've suggested why I think Pooky is scummy and defended myself against attacks -- it's not like I'm ignoring the mafia aspect of it while I pursue the meta stuff. I just happen to be capable of doing two things at once.

Does no one else agree with my argument against Pooky?

Cam

[Axelrod]

Frankly, I'd be interested to hear if Talitha still likes her vote or not moreso than Pooky. Pooky is silly and inscrutable.

[Glork]

Cam and Axel need more Over/Under.

[logicticus]

Also, I think mathcam needs another vote at the moment. What are you afraid will happen without a normal mod? Just by playing on this forum we agree to play by the normal rules.

Do the normal rules include editing posts? Do you think that whoever chose to edit the first post is deliberately breaking our perceived rules of the game?

I think he is a townie who is worried about what the scum could do with the editing of posts while a good majority of us realize there is nothing we can do about it and choose to go on scum hunting. So I would say his priorities are a bit out of whack at the moment, but that hardly makes him scum.

I've suggested why I think Pooky is scummy and defended myself against attacks -- it's not like I'm ignoring the mafia aspect of it while I pursue the meta stuff. I just happen to be capable of doing two things at once.

Does no one else agree with my argument against Pooky?

Cam

Looking at Pookys 5 posts is pretty damning. There is nothing of substance and as cam put it, his vote is simply an echo of Tallys vote (which lacked justification as it was).

So I have no problem voting Pooky right now in an effort to get real contribution from him.

vote pooky

[elvis_knits]

Also, I think mathcam needs another vote at the moment. What are you afraid will happen without a normal mod? Just by playing on this forum we agree to play by the normal rules.

Do the normal rules include editing posts? Do you think that whoever chose to edit the first post is deliberately breaking our perceived rules of the game?

Is it possible that zu faul editted his own post and therefor nobody in here has even broken rules? Is it possible that whoever editted the post did so as part of their role and therefor didn't break the rules?

Do you really think the editting of the first post has injured the town in any way?

I know in theory that editting a post is bad, and we don't want to lose info or anything like that. But we did see the original post. We know zu is town and that he is dead. How have we been harmed?

[Axelrod]

Who is in charge of Mod Prods? You need to go prod DG....

[Macros]

Glork, bear in mind I havent played here in a long time so I'm going to say what te fuck to your over/under.

unvote

it was a joke
If it is what I think it is, its fucking retarding, there could be all the scum or none on the "train" its day one, my vote was a joke, i'm sure at least one is from someone who really have nothing to go and an easy lynch seems like an idea to get some info tonight.
Pooky's being pooky, last time I played with him he acted the same and turned out to be the most important pro town player, I hate playing with him because hes impossible to read.
I dont have a vote to cast yet, I need to look over it all again.

[Macros]

I'm sorry, do we actually have a case from pooky and tal or just voting? I mean really, mature people, come on!
I'm suspicious of glork hes too eager to point the finger and paint suggestions on peoples behaviour

fos glork

what about them apples?

[mathcam]

I hate playing with him because hes impossible to read.

This is exactly my point. He's impossible to read not because he's played fantastically, but rather because he's deliberately taken a voting stance in this game in which he does not have to explain his vote (or at least he thinks he doesn't).

Cam

[Glork]

The point of the over/under is to get people to weigh in on the five people voting for Mathcam and make a gut-call on whether they think 2 or more of the people on that bandwagon are scum.


Anybody who does not provide an answer is either unwilling to try to analyze the first bandwagon of the game, or they are simply unwilling to provide an answer to my question.

Of

course

there could be zero or all scum on Cam right now, Macros. I'm not asking what you think is

possible

. I am asking what you think

is the case

. Out of {Macros, phoebus, talitha, pooky, elvis_knits}, do you think there are more or less than 1.5 scums?

[Glork]

EBWOP:

FoS: Logic, Axel, EK, Macros, Cam

for obvious reasons.

[elvis_knits]

Glork, why are you squashing this wagon?

[Glork]

I'm not squashing the wagon. I'm trying to get an understanding of what people think of the wagoners.


Why are you avoiding placing an Over/Under bet?

[elvis_knits]

Anybody who does not provide an answer is either unwilling to try to analyze the first bandwagon of the game, or they are simply unwilling to provide an answer to my question.

It's the first bandwagon... it's useful later, but who knows what it means now? I haven't answered your question because 1)I am on the wagon and didn't know you wanted wagoners to answer 2)I have no idea yet.

You analysis is premature, and is stopping the normal course of the wagon. Attention is now off cam.

[Glork]

The wagon has crested and is already beginning to fall. Why do you want attention back on Cam?