mini #585 - A Tempest Has Formed (Over), Thanks Patrick!!

[Evilgorrilaz]

I would advise not using an excuse of the type "I am not experienced, and therefore sorry for my mistake."

Agreed. Please do not use newbieness as an excuse in this game. Also, lynch all lurkers np

Vote Count:

2 mellowed man (Evilgorrilaz, Cream147)
1 Gaspode (Marmalade)
1 alvinz95 (iamausername)
1 Evilgorrilaz (populartajo)
1 marmalade (alvinz95)
1 CoheedCambria09 (Mellowed Man)

[CoheedCambria09]

lol ok, but i am inexpirenced this is my first mafia game

[ashmite84]

@Gaspode: I am involved. I have a fos on MM.[/i]

[iamausername]

Well, FoSes don't really mean anything in terms of game mechanics, it's just an established shorthand for "I find this person suspicious, but, for whatever reason, don't wish to vote for them at this time".

That said, I'm not really sure what Gaspode was getting at with the accusation. Scum often try having someone else vote for them, then "change" their vote to them again? I don't think it's suspicious that ashmite commented on the strangeness of Mellowed Man's actions, because it was a really strange thing to do.

I'm on board for a "evilgorrilaz likes bandwaggoning" bandwagon, so

Unvote, Vote: evilgorrilaz

.

[populartajo]

Thoughts! Yey!
Gaspode, I agree with his thoughts, although I dont know what's the difference between a major FoS and a vote, in this state of the game. Seems like he's being quite careful. But his analysis is interesting, then he has been added to my town note.

Also: why was the vote count included in populartajo's post? It caused me some major confusion.

The Mod likes me!

Also, how are we supposed to get discussion going if we don't apply any pressure?

Ive heard this explanation a million times. Can you link me to some games where you've acted like this before?

I agree that Evilgorrilaz is wagon happy and that could be dangerous for the town, but considering the situation, a bandwagon could be more helpful than not doing anything. Wagoning can be used for scumhunting or for scum. Right now, a bandwagon would help the town because it can make the scum give off hints that they are scum. If he tried to wagon on a real discussion, then that would be scummy. I'll keep an eye out for any more bandwagons after the random phase

There's something I dont like in this post. Do you feel it?

um this is my first game, i was just pointing out a few of my noob observations, i didnt know that by saying there havent been any tells, was a tell, srry if im confusing anyone

How old are you?

I would advise not using an excuse of the type "I am not experienced, and therefore sorry for my mistake."

FoS Mellowed Man.

You know why.

Agreed. Please do not use newbieness as an excuse in this game. Also, lynch all lurkers np

Im starting to like my vote more than I wanted to.

Well, FoSes don't really mean anything in terms of game mechanics, it's just an established shorthand for "I find this person suspicious, but, for whatever reason, don't wish to vote for them at this time".
That said, I'm not really sure what Gaspode was getting at with the accusation. Scum often try having someone else vote for them, then "change" their vote to them again? I don't think it's suspicious that ashmite commented on the strangeness of Mellowed Man's actions, because it was a really strange thing to do.
I'm on board for a "evilgorrilaz likes bandwaggoning" bandwagon, so Unvote, Vote: evilgorrilaz.

While I had a bad feeling about Alvinz' post, iamausername's tone gives me a good vibe at first sight. [/gut]
Also, where's Elias?

[CoheedCambria09]

im 15
and to go back to my original vote

vote evilgorrilaz

[alvinz95]

I agree that Evilgorrilaz is wagon happy and that could be dangerous for the town, but considering the situation, a bandwagon could be more helpful than not doing anything. Wagoning can be used for scumhunting or for scum. Right now, a bandwagon would help the town because it can make the scum give off hints that they are scum. If he tried to wagon on a real discussion, then that would be scummy. I'll keep an eye out for any more bandwagons after the random phase

There's something I dont like in this post. Do you feel it?

Can you explain this feeling? Or are you starting a wagon? Just asking. I won't jump to conclusions too quickly.

And I agree, alvinz, that bandwagons are a very important part of the game, and "bandwagon hunting" isn't always bad. It was just something else I noticed regarding EvilGorrillaz' behavior that is occasionally considered scummy. Without the other stuff, I probably wouldn't have even included it in my post.

Exactly what I meant. If EvilGorrillaz had done it in a situation like when it is Day 2, everyone is exhausted and wants to close up day because there is nothing more to discuss, and throws down a wagon, then the FoS, or vote is going down on him depending what he has done before.

I'm on board for a "evilgorrilaz likes bandwaggoning" bandwagon, so

Unvote, Vote: evilgorrilaz.

LOL. Thats so ironic, and contradictory, but evilgorrilaz is wagon hyper, and that is more dangerous to the town, so the FoS goes down.

FoS: Evilgorrilaz

I would advise not using an excuse of the type "I am not experienced, and therefore sorry for my mistake."


unvote, vote:CoheedCambria09

Kinda quick voting, and vote hopping. Probably just a newbie move. But, I'll keep this move in mind.

Sorry guys for not quoting properly, way too lazy.

[alvinz95]

Woops, forgot.

Leaving random vote phase?

unvote

But strawberry jam IS BETTER than marmalade!

[Evilgorrilaz]

Alvinz, please explain why I deserve an FoS, even though you say urself that bandwagons early really mean little. Oh, and how am I wagon hyper?

Populartajo, I am not going to bring meta into this game, so don't ask me about my previous games, unless you want to go and look them up yourself.
Also, do you think that newbiness is an ok excuse for scummy play?

[alvinz95]

Alvinz, please explain why I deserve an FoS, even though you say urself that bandwagons early really mean little. Oh, and how am I wagon hyper?

1. You deserve an FoS since you are wagon hyper, and is a warning for you. I didn't do it before, because I was in quite a rush to leave.
2. You are wagon hyper because you tend to join or make wagons, which usually isn't great for the town, I'm just putting an FoS as a warning, or first offense. If you do it again along with increased scummy behavior then the vote goes on.
3. I said bandwagons have different connotations depending on the situation.
Right now, bandwagons may be helpful to the town in scum-hunting, but later it may expose scum.

Also, do you think that newbiness is an ok excuse for scummy play?

After one occurence of newby behavior that can also be considered scummy, it is fair enough to let it slide as newbish, but when they consistently do it, then it is more clear than he's more scummy. Thats why I said that I would keep it in mind

[Gaspode]

Also, lynch all lurkers np

I believe the quote (again according to JEEP) is "Lynch All Liars". :p

Also, I'm Scottish, and we do have internet, you know. Wink

Oh yes, I know--I even got free wifi on the train up there. That's miles ahead of us automobile-centric Americans. I just didn't have time and wanted to save myself the money.

Populartajo, I am not going to bring meta into this game, so don't ask me about my previous games, unless you want to go and look them up yourself.
Also, do you think that newbiness is an ok excuse for scummy play?

Yes and no. Certain behavior is less scummy when executed by a newbie. Similarly, some things are more scummy when there's a newbie involved. I don't have the time or brainpower to come up with examples right now, but I'm sure you can imagine such a situation.

Also, I'm sure that over my couple of years of inactivity I've missed multitudes of philosophical discussions on the relevance of metagame logic, and I can see why you wouldn't want to be the one to start such a discussion, but I think it's a perfectly legitimate thing to take into consideration when analyzing someone's playing style.

In response to Populartajo's post: I did not cast a vote because I didn't yet want to start anyone on the road to a lynch. I feel like the random voting is over, but I don't feel like there's enough there yet for me to start a serious wagon. The reason I used the "major FOS" was that I had already FOS'ed a bunch of people in my post, and I felt this was a little bit of a bigger deal. I admit it was a bit hypocritical, in hindsight, but when I see one person's FOS leading to a possible bandwagon, I start to think of common scum flying-under-the-radar tactics.

On a less intense note, welcome to the board, CoheedCambria. I was under the impression that they made everyone play at least one "Newbie Game" nowadays, but I'm glad to see someone going with the classic "trial by fire" approach. It worked out pretty well for MeMe and myself back in Mini 15 (although unlike her, I didn't end up on the winning side).

[ashmite84]

Mod: prod Elias_the_thief

please.

[ashmite84]

While you are at it

prod: Hypatia & Cream147

thanks.

[Marmalade]

vote: marmalade

because everyone knows strawberry jam is better.

Everyone knows that this is a lie.

FOS: CoheedCambria. The "no tells" and "discussion" posts are both small tells in themselves.

Disagree. The most we could discern from that is that he is trying to push the day and getting impatient, which is already a stretch.

And your early vote for MellowedMan

wasn't

a stretch? Seriously, this feels a bit odd.

Also, lynch all lurkers

Joke?

Alvinz, please explain why I deserve an FoS, even though you say urself that bandwagons early really mean little. Oh, and how am I wagon hyper?

I find it interesting that you comment on Alvinz FoS, but not Cambria's (unexplained) vote.

Populartajo, I am not going to bring meta into this game, so don't ask me about my previous games, unless you want to go and look them up yourself.

Can you explain your aversion to metagaming?

I'm going to re-read Alvinz, but something feels slightly off about his posts so far. Not quite sure what, exactly.

[alvinz95]

Urrrghh! I just had a nice long analysis of everyone, then the internet died!

Evilgorrilaz

: The least townly because of his likeness of bandwagons. Dangerous if he successfully starts a bandwagon. Good person to look out for.

Populartajo

: Something fishy about his last post. Seems to be giving limited information, and trying to start a wagon on me, by asking everyone if they thought my comment was weird. (can you explain?) You usually post a lot more in depth. Are you trying to hide something? And is your vote on evilgorrilaz a random vote or a serious vote?

Gaspode

: Overall seems the most townly, but I'm not entirely convinced yet, since it is at the beginning of the game. By the way, HAPPY BIRTHDAY!

Marmalade

: So far, hasn't elaborated on comments. (Most are one sentence long). Too little to tell. Leaning town.

Mellowed Man

: Has done some controversial things, which could go as newbish, unless he consistently does them. Vote hops, can't see a real reason to vote, just because coheed said he was a newbie, besides being scummy, or newbish. Second most scummy.

Ashmite

: Can't really tell, hasn't done anything townly, so I'm leaning more on the scum side.

iamausername

: Leaning towards town, though his vote on evilgorrilaz is quite ironic. not much left to say...

CoheedCambria09

: I'm thinking newbish, could go either way, not much to analyze.

Cream147

: hasn't posted anything besides a random vote. Prod?

Hypatia

: hasn't posted anything besides "I don't random vote" post. Prod?

Elias_te_thief

: No posts. Prod?

[Evilgorrilaz]

Can you explain your aversion to metagaming?

I don't like it.

I find it interesting that you comment on Alvinz FoS, but not Cambria's (unexplained) vote.

Zzzz. I missed that.\

FoS: CoheedCambria09

Joke?

Smiley?
Anyways, its just that I hate lurkers

And your early vote for MellowedMan wasn't a stretch? Seriously, this feels a bit odd.

As I said before, it was trying to get some discussion going.

[Gaspode]

I don't like it.

Well you really should learn to like it. When played online, a LOT of mafia is metagaming, even if in a broader sense than "what did Evilgorrilaz do in his last four games?"

I wish this were vote-worthy, because I think it's a bad attitude, but it really doesn't say anything about scumminess--just about [bad] play style. (Although there are arguments for lynching people with bad strategies, but I won't get into that--most are metagame related ).

More useful comments to come in the next day or two--I'm too tired to think at the moment.

[Hypatia]

nobodys yet to give a tell, its making it difficult

By the beginning of Page 2? That'd be an interesting game.

We are now apparantly out of random voting, but what we're *into* I don't know.

That's a very interesting point Gaspode made about ashmite (40), but I think it's entirely conjectural right now. Later in the game I would pay more attention to it, but it's too early to have anything solid behind it.

Evilgorillaz is not making me very happy right now, especially post 50. Those "I am making a post which could be construed as a joke and defended as one, but there is no sarcasm on the internet so throws in a wrench of confusion" posts are never good for the town.

[ashmite84]

I am wary of evilgorillaz, for reasons that others have already stated, although I agree with him about hating lurkers. Not too much more to say until all confirmed players rock up. Re: MM, his erratic actions could be nothing, but I'm not convinced yet. Considering he was nice enough to give me such a gift so early in the game, it would be rude to return it

[Miztef]

appropriate prods have been sent.

[Marmalade]

Can you explain your aversion to metagaming?

I don't like it.

Explanation of why? As Gaspode says, it's pretty useful.

And your early vote for MellowedMan wasn't a stretch? Seriously, this feels a bit odd.

As I said before, it was trying to get some discussion going.

It just seems odd to attack someone for doing something at a stretch when you did basically the same thing. I understand it is early in the game, but even some recognition that you were acting at a stretch would probably have been appropriate.

Not sure about Hypatia's post. Something about it makes me feel like something is off.

[alvinz95]

I have a theory going on populartajo's post... It might be a stretch, but its worth the try.

There's something I dont like in this post. Do you feel it?

It is as if he's asking his scum partner to back him up on this. Saying "Do YOU feel it?". Other wise, he's trying to start a wagon with that question, which is scummy considering he started it without even getting on it.

Then, the only person who says so back is Marmalade.

I'm going to re-read Alvinz, but something feels slightly off about his posts so far. Not quite sure what, exactly.

Communicating in-game? Sly, but I may have caught you.

What do you think about this theory?

[ashmite84]

@ alvinz: a wagon maybe, but I think the other proposal is a stretch as you said. Still, I like the way you think. For the record, (if you are referring to the actual phrasing used, I wasn't really sure on that) then Marmalade also used a similar phrase in post 70 referring to Hypatia.

[CoheedCambria09]

after reading through everything, and seeing all the new developments im going to keep my vote on evilz

but..

small fos ashmite84

[ashmite84]

DO NOT WANT!