Mini 579 - The Plagues of Egypt Mafia - Over

[Musher333]

That discussion seems to be winding down with the agreement that we need more info first.

We need more info ? On what then, if we must keep roles secret ?

If I'm reading it right (and this is my position by the way) he is saying that we shouldn't bother speculating on tidbits in the opening posts until we actually have some information about those tidbits.

I really don't like this post. When I read it, it made PyroDwarf look really scummy, but when I looked at his actual post I got absolutely no scum-vibes.

Look really scummy ? What the hell makes you say that ? I was just saying I don't understand what he means... Where did you see even one hint of accusation or allusion to scummyness?

He isn't accusing you he is accusing PyroDwarf so i would be careful, your remark could be counted as scummish.

[undo]

Not voting:

PyroDwarf, Singing Librarian, SlySly, thevampireofdusseldorf

With 11 alive, it's

6 to lynch

.

SlySly will be prodded.

[lord_hur]

He isn't accusing you he is accusing PyroDwarf so i would be careful, your remark could be counted as scummish.

No, re-read it. He's accusing me of making PyroDwarf look scummy, but that PyroDwarf's actual post wasn't scummy.

I know it's not logical, but that's what he said.

[lord_hur]

Mod, could you also consider prodding Shin Hatsubai ?

Only 1 post, 3 days ago.

[Musher333]

He isn't accusing you he is accusing PyroDwarf so i would be careful, your remark could be counted as scummish.

No, re-read it. He's accusing me of making PyroDwarf look scummy, but that PyroDwarf's actual post wasn't scummy.

I know it's not logical, but that's what he said.

Ah, now i see what you mean, you're right it isn't logical

[Shin Hatsubai]

Sorry folks, I had to go out of town unexpectedly. I have caught up on the thread and everything. I also feel that random voting has ended, and my vote on lord_hur should have been removed long ago

unvote lord_hur

[lord_hur]

Sorry folks, I had to go out of town unexpectedly. I have caught up on the thread and everything. I also feel that random voting has ended, and my vote on lord_hur should have been removed long ago

unvote lord_hur

Any comments on what happened since you last posted ?

[hasdgfas]

Sorry folks, I had to go out of town unexpectedly. I have caught up on the thread and everything. I also feel that random voting has ended, and my vote on lord_hur should have been removed long ago

unvote lord_hur

Really? That's all you have to say about everything? So much has happened at yet all you do is unvote a random vote? I don't like this at all.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Ok I am happy with a vote on now

Vote:lord_hur

After watching his reactions to things I am happy to do this, asking for Prods and others thoughts seems to me like wanting to get out of the spotlight.

[lord_hur]

Ok I am happy with a vote on now

Vote:lord_hur

After watching his reactions to things I am happy to do this, asking for Prods and others thoughts seems to me like wanting to get out of the spotlight.

The problem with your reasoning is, if it were true no one would ever be able to get out of a defensive position, as the mere fact of doing anything else looks scummy according to you. Do you think I should just keep defending myself till someone lynches me for no pro-town activity ? No thanks.

[Shin Hatsubai]

Here are my thoughts on the discussion so far... I think speculation of roles is fine in the opening of the game, as long as they don't go too far as to possibly give scum good targets on the first night. Going with speculation on the Townie PM that is posted at the beginning of the thread is fine because everyone can see it, and if the scum received a different one they can speculate in private all they want as to the significance of the roles and the food. My only hope is that they can't somehow choose the plagues themselves, and they target certain food or roles... so revealing roles would be bad in this stage. I guess to get a better feel on the game would be to see what happens on Night 1, but that would mean losing some townies, which is bad. It seemed to me there was a lot of back and forth between thevampireofdusseldorf, lord_hur, and Mr Stoofer, which I think was good for stimulating discussion, but as of this point I am hesitant to place a vote on any person yet, because I couldn't for sure make a snap decision as to who was scum... I do, however, agree with lord_hur's reasoning for prodding characters, because I think it doesn't get him out of the spotlight, it makes him a more noticeable character, and could possibly mean (if he is not scum) a bigger target on his head. I think it is important to not let the day drag on too much, but I am afraid a hasty vote at this point may take out out a townie.

[Shin Hatsubai]

I feel that I would place

FoS: thevampireofdusseldorf

because there are already 3 votes... to prevent any hasty lynchings.

[PyroDwarf]

I was just saying I don't understand what he means...

The more info I was talking about was things we should learn at night one. Like, if there is any mention of the foods at all, or if there is another plague. My comment at the start of the game wasn't a speculation on roles, it was simply speculation on a mechanic that I hadn't seen before.

If they disagree that what they had done was not worthy of a FoS then they were very much open to say so. Infact Musher333 did and for that courage in standing up to a FoS, I am no longer suspicious of him (it was a weak FoS anyway).

You call Musher333's OMGUS vote standing up to you? I will say that FoS'ing me for "starting" discussion then FoS'ing others for "hushing" discussion makes me wonder about VoD. I suppose I can see Hur's speculation as just that, for now... I don't think asking the mod to prod is scummy, I'll agree with Hatsubai, it makes him seem more active in the game. VoD is the only person standing out to me right now. FoS on him, FoS I say!

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

My point of over FoSing was to see reactions and I did find it interesting. Yes this makes me look scummy and I knew it was going to happen but was too interested in how it would go down. A FoS is a sort of short case, you did this I find it suspisious, so anyone who gets one knows the reason why they are being thought of as suspicious and can therefore arguee against it or not. I find it very interesting that in most games a FoS is given and people generaly except it and don't argue. Anyways my second suspect at the moment is Mr Stoofer, whom hasn't posted in a while I do believe. And I think somewhere back in the thread there was a question for him.

[Mr Stoofer]

Well I am very happy with my vote at the moment. TVoD's early posting looked like he was firing out any old accusation's he could to see if something stuck, without any serious attempt to think about whether his accusations had any merit. Now post 83 looks to me like he is just picking up the best bandwagon he can manage, without any conviction at all. His tone just doesn't convince me that he has any belief in any of his accusations.

Anyways my second suspect at the moment is Mr Stoofer, whom hasn't posted in a while I do believe. And I think somewhere back in the thread there was a question for him.

What question? And when are you going to answer my question?

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

What bandwagon is this. I am the only one to have a vote on lord_hur at the moment as everyone else unvoted, how is this a band wagon. I'm not super convinced he is scum but my best lead so far so I see no harm in having my vote there for the meanwhile. You are right about firing out suspicion but it was by no means to see if anything stuck but to gage reactions as I have explained and I have admited that some of them were weak. I have three main suspects listed lord_hur, Mr Stoofer and Singing Librarian so that is 3 out of the five people I FoSed. You may think my play unconventional but it has helped me get a decent suspect list to focus my attention on.
I believe I am the one being bandwagoned at the moment at three votes and this post from you. Now Q & A time.
I believe you asked this three times....

I ask you again: tell me - yes or no - was my suspicion merited?

Which I answered eventualy

Yes and No, I viewed the timing of the post its lay out and tone all to decide if I found it suspicious. Suspicion can be merited but the person placing that suspicion can also be suspicious.

Now that post of yours in particular I made some coments on which you seem to have not bothered to deem worth talking about. So I will have to re do this.

The following quotes make me think that lord_hur knows more about this setup than the rest of us (or at least: more than me).

Can you please explain what you ment by this comment as both I and lord_hur have interpreted it and perhaps it would be nice to get the view of the author.

Tags corrected -Mod

[Mr Stoofer]

I believe you asked this three times....

I ask you again: tell me - yes or no - was my suspicion merited?

Which I answered eventualy

Yes and No, I viewed the timing of the post its lay out and tone all to decide if I found it suspicious. Suspicion can be merited but the person placing that suspicion can also be suspicious.

Yes and No is not an answer. Either you thought I was making a good point or you did not. You can't have it both ways.

Now that post of yours in particular I made some coments on which you seem to have not bothered to deem worth talking about. So I will have to re do this.

The following quotes make me think that lord_hur knows more about this setup than the rest of us (or at least: more than me).

Can you please explain what you ment by this comment as both I and lord_hur have interpreted it and perhaps it would be nice to get the view of the author.

What I meant was this: Scum inevitabley know more about the game than the Town. They are the

informed

minority. And they often cannot stop themselves from showing how clever they are by successfully "guessing" aspects of the setup. As JEEP said in the wiki:

Mafia generally have more information than other players, so whoever picks up on tells/hints easiest is more likely to be mafia

.
Perhaps the most significant thing in lord_hur's post was his statement that we were going to have 10 plagues in 10 nights. That is not something which I got from reading undo's posts and made me think that he knew more about the setup.

[Guardian]

hasdgfas is scum. At the bottom of the thread, where it says 'display posts by previous', click hasdgfas, and view his posts in isolation:

Post 0 -- he random votes for HH because he doesn't want to get hacked. He is showing care for his own well being, even in his joke.

Post 1 -- he addresses a question posed to someone else (tvod, conveniently), and talks about how "we" shouldn't do "x" because that would help "them" -- the scum. This post is trying to be helpful but isn't, and interjects so tvod can't answer the question untainted.

Post 2 -- Similarly appears to be helpful but isn't really. 'Why not play mafia?'. ...

Post 3 -- hasdgfas is definitely directing tvod here; my most probable read is scum directing scum (partner, why do you act suspiciously? act better!) but I think that scum directing new town to look nice a pro-town is an almost as probable scenario.

Post 4 -- Casts minor suspicion and comments on how 'he doesn't like' something.

Cliff Notes

hasdgfas has posted a few times but hasn't really been helpful, though he has appeared to be so while talking about theory. imo scum love to do this. He is guilty of directing tvod and protecting him from a question, a connection a townie would not want to make. Lastly, his diction leads me to believe that he is scum; instances such as the 'I don't want to get hacked' and careful use of we to refer to town and they to refer to scum make me believe this.

SlySly is also probably scum.

tvod may or may not be scum; there is evidence of a hasdgfas connection, for sure. I am unsure how much faith I have in the direct case on tvod.

unvote: slysly ; vote: hasdgfas

fos: slysly, mfos: tvod

[hasdgfas]

Here are my thoughts on the discussion so far... I think speculation of roles is fine in the opening of the game, as long as they don't go too far as to possibly give scum good targets on the first night. Going with speculation on the Townie PM that is posted at the beginning of the thread is fine because everyone can see it, and if the scum received a different one they can speculate in private all they want as to the significance of the roles and the food. My only hope is that they can't somehow choose the plagues themselves, and they target certain food or roles... so revealing roles would be bad in this stage. I guess to get a better feel on the game would be to see what happens on Night 1, but that would mean losing some townies, which is bad. It seemed to me there was a lot of back and forth between thevampireofdusseldorf, lord_hur, and Mr Stoofer, which I think was good for stimulating discussion, but as of this point I am hesitant to place a vote on any person yet, because I couldn't for sure make a snap decision as to who was scum... I do, however, agree with lord_hur's reasoning for prodding characters, because I think it doesn't get him out of the spotlight, it makes him a more noticeable character, and could possibly mean (if he is not scum) a bigger target on his head. I think it is important to not let the day drag on too much, but I am afraid a hasty vote at this point may take out out a townie.

This post seems to me to be a lot of theory and speculation. I don't see anything here that actually moves the game forward.

Shin, a couple questions for you:
1) Why do you think we need another night to get a better feel for this game? Don't you think we can use 1 day to find scum? It seems to me like what's more important to you at this point is understanding the game as opposed to finding scum.
2) You don't need to make a "snap decision" as to who is scum. In fact, that's one of the worst things you could possibly do. It should be a more well thought-out decision as opposed to just deciding hastily.

[lord_hur]

hasdgfas is scum. At the bottom of the thread, where it says 'display posts by previous', click hasdgfas, and view his posts in isolation:

Post 0 -- he random votes for HH because he doesn't want to get hacked. He is showing care for his own well being, even in his joke.

Post 1 -- he addresses a question posed to someone else (tvod, conveniently), and talks about how "we" shouldn't do "x" because that would help "them" -- the scum. This post is trying to be helpful but isn't, and interjects so tvod can't answer the question untainted.

Post 2 -- Similarly appears to be helpful but isn't really. 'Why not play mafia?'. ...

Post 3 -- hasdgfas is definitely directing tvod here; my most probable read is scum directing scum (partner, why do you act suspiciously? act better!) but I think that scum directing new town to look nice a pro-town is an almost as probable scenario.

Post 4 -- Casts minor suspicion and comments on how 'he doesn't like' something.

Cliff Notes

hasdgfas has posted a few times but hasn't really been helpful, though he has appeared to be so while talking about theory. imo scum love to do this. He is guilty of directing tvod and protecting him from a question, a connection a townie would not want to make. Lastly, his diction leads me to believe that he is scum; instances such as the 'I don't want to get hacked' and careful use of we to refer to town and they to refer to scum make me believe this.

SlySly is also probably scum.

tvod may or may not be scum; there is evidence of a hasdgfas connection, for sure. I am unsure how much faith I have in the direct case on tvod.

unvote: slysly ; vote: hasdgfas

fos: slysly, mfos: tvod

My own opinion on this :

0. Very far-fetched.

1. I don't like the use of we and them too, I must admit. But it is not a good scumtell in my books.

2. Well it wasn't the most useful thing to say, but it was on point regarding what VOD said. No scumtell.

3. He was trying to make VOD talk, not directing him. And I would have been interested in VOD's answer too. Pro-town to me.

4. Same, he's just provoking a reaction. Slightly pro-town.

On the other hand, I do agree with you on the fact hasdgfas has only said pretty obvious things, that others would surely have asked if he wasn't there (on 4 I actually said the same thing right before he did, probably Sarnath'ed him though).

I don't think it should get him a vote for now though. But if he still hasn't contributed much in a week or so... (<- this is a subtle hint directed to hasdgfas).

[lord_hur]

This post seems to me to be a lot of theory and speculation. I don't see anything here that actually moves the game forward.

Shin, a couple questions for you:
1) Why do you think we need another night to get a better feel for this game? Don't you think we can use 1 day to find scum? It seems to me like what's more important to you at this point is understanding the game as opposed to finding scum.
2) You don't need to make a "snap decision" as to who is scum. In fact, that's one of the worst things you could possibly do. It should be a more well thought-out decision as opposed to just deciding hastily.

Sarnath'ed.

[Mr Stoofer]

Re: Guardian's post 92: I agree that hasdgfas has been rather light on the contributions, even though he has a number of posts; but if this is an accusation of "lurking in plain sight" then I think 4 posts is too small a sample.

However, more significantly, this post will look

very interesting indeed

if thevampireofdussledorf comes up as Scum...

[Guardian]

I hope tvod is scum then, though as of yet I remain unconvinced; I love it when my posts are thought of as interesting... Stoofer thinking of my post as

very interesting indeed

would be almost the pinnacle of achievement.

I don't think my thoughts on cow solely amount to 'active lurker' or whatever you want to call it.

[Musher333]

Re: Guardian's post 92: I agree that hasdgfas has been rather light on the contributions, even though he has a number of posts; but if this is an accusation of "lurking in plain sight" then I think 4 posts is too small a sample.

However, more significantly, this post will look

very interesting indeed

if thevampireofdussledorf comes up as Scum...

I agree with this, to me Tvod seems alot like scum giving accusations and FoS'ing for no apparent reason other than posting, to me hasdfas doesnt seem to scummy but if more of his posts are this mysterious and un-helpful then i would consider an FoS.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

@Guardian why do you

Hope

I am scum?
Also what is your FoS on slysly for I don't believe he has posted in this game yet.

@Musher I have explained my FoSing and each had a reson behind it which I stated at the time so to say with no apparent reason is a oversight on your behalf.
HA and I like the way you threaten a FoS.

@Mr Stoofer yes and no is my answer I have told you why I found it suspicious:

I deemed the suspicion that was already on lord_hur to be sufficent for his action
I also viewed your overburdening of him with more suspicion suspicious

If you look at the third quote I didn't really see it as a question, more 3 quotes of yours (a large body of evidence) and an accusation. To me it was trying to push something a bit far. I think most were happy to leave this speculating business alone but Stoofer wanted to bring it to the forefront again and has it help us any more since then?

I dont really see that as bringing up a new point (not points) that you might know more than him, as he explains below that he had read the applicable meterial, so thus "you might know more than me" is throwing suspicion on you as being scum.
I also don't understand your conclusion of how he was asking you where you got your information from.

If it is given as MR Stoofer has said he read the information then the "at least: more than me" part is I imagine to be taken as "I dont know things I am unimformed majority aka town"

So yes lord_hur was to be thought of as mildly suspicious and had been told about the speculation and this point was dying down then you post one line implying lord_hur is scum and you are town and use three quotes of his.