Mini #564 - Mafia in Crubtown - Game Over

[windkirby]

unvote: darkdude
vote: Quantumfruit

4 (joke) reasons? In one post? Looks like overkill in (jokily) justifying the vote.

She just looks a little jumpy to me.

Hmm... I don't think it's such a big deal, personally. Sorry if it sounds like I'm defending her overmuch, but it's only on the second page. (I would agree if she had done it on the first.)

[zeddicus]

unvote, vote: windkirby

for saying the second vote is scummy when one person (mozsuggs) does it, but not when another places a second vote (Pink Puppy).

did everyone miss this?

I still don't understand how you can justify a vote, even a random one, with what amounts to a double standard.

[windkirby]

unvote, vote: windkirby

for saying the second vote is scummy when one person (mozsuggs) does it, but not when another places a second vote (Pink Puppy).

did everyone miss this?

I still don't understand how you can justify a vote, even a random one, with what amounts to a double standard.

First page, zed. I wasn't serious.

And if you really need an explanation, mozsuggs's vote stuck out more to me. He wrote a lot more that PP did, seeming like he was trying to make the fact that he was putting a second vote on VoD more normal.

[Cephrir]

Don't try to read into people's random votes.

Please

. It doesn't work.

[zeddicus]

He wrote a lot more that PP did, seeming like he was trying to make the fact that he was putting a second vote on VoD more normal.

a lot more? let's examine that claim.

Yeah I'm with you on that!
VOTE THEVAMPIREOFDUSSELDORF

No offence Vampire-completely random. Sorry.

2 sentences, plus a vote.

vote vikingfan for being in both my minis right now.

1 sentence, plus a vote.

so, moz "wrote a lot more"? I didn't realize one sentence was "a lot"

[windkirby]

2 and a half sentences, plus a vote, not just two. Get it together. Geez.

Mmk, are you telling me that a scum is more likely to do what I did than a town? There are a few times when there's a scumtell on the first page, but you cannot honestly be seriously in saying that this is one of them.

[Crub]

Second Vote Count of Day 1

Pink Puppy (2):

vikingfan, Cephrir

vikingfan (2):

thevampireofdusseldorf, Pink Puppy

Cephrir (2):

YvonneSeer, darkdude

windkirby (2):

zeddicus, QuantumFruit

thevampireofdusseldorf (1):

mozsuggs

Akonas (1):

windkirby

mozsuggs (1):

Akonas

QuantumFruit (1):

Talitha

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

[vikingfan]

PP notes that she is now in a 3rd game without me (the basis of her voting) but doesn't unvote. Hmmm... I'm keeping my vote there for now.

As for the other stuff, it seems like it's making a mountain out of a molehill, unless there's something I'm missing.

[Pink Puppy]

It was a random vote... I would never seriously vote anyone based on the fact that they were in another mini with me. I mean... that tells me nothing serious.

But, I don't know why it bothers you so much. I thought you OMGUS'ed me as a joke too. But I guess my vote on you really bothers you. I didn't take it off because I'm not sure where else to put it yet... and it's not like you're about to be lynched.

[vikingfan]

it doesn't bother me at all, PP. It just struck me as odd that you noted that it was a random vote, the reason for the random vote was thus nullified, and yet you kept the vote. That's all. And yes, it was a joke.

[QuantumFruit]

unvote: darkdude
vote: Quantumfruit
4 (joke) reasons? In one post? Looks like overkill in (jokily) justifying the vote.

She just looks a little jumpy to me.

I tend to be long-winded. Where do you get jumpy, though?

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Ok my obsevations so far

windy kirby voted mozsuggs for

giving poor VoD a SECOND vote.

QuantumFruit changed votes and gave a few reasons for doing so

He totally just OMGUS-ed Akonas. Plus, I'm defending my man. (Yes, I'm purposefully embarrassing you, dear.)

Also, he came up on darkdude's dice roll the first time he did it. The dice are never wrong.

And if that's not enough reason, he's in two of my minis as well!

Dark dude saw this as a possible scum band wagon under the guise of joke voting purposeful crap logic.

Cephrir jumps in with

Nobody's trying to bandwagon anyone or engineer anything this early in the game with ulterior motives

Talitha votes QuantumFruit reasons:

4 (joke) reasons? In one post? Looks like overkill in (jokily) justifying the vote.

She just looks a little jumpy to me.

windkirby doesn't seem to think this a big deal and then says sorry if it sounded like he was defending QuantumFruit

zeddicus points out windkirbys vote as a double standard

Then we have Cephrir yet again

Don't try to read into people's random votes. Please. It doesn't work.

And now my thoughts

Quantum fruits votes and reasons attracted suspicion from Darkdude and Talitha
Im not surprised at this as I thought the reasons were overjustifying the vote even with the explanation they were all joke votes and "purposeful crap logic".

The double standard of Windkirbys vote is a valid point but I find the explanation from

First page, zed. I wasn't serious.

And if you really need an explanation, mozsuggs's vote stuck out more to me. He wrote a lot more that PP did, seeming like he was trying to make the fact that he was putting a second vote on VoD more normal.

more interesting

This post to me seems contrdictory, First you say it wasn't serious and then you give a reason that the post stood out more and go on to say mozsuggs post looked as if he was trying to make a 2nd vote appear more normal.

I get the impression you thought mozsuggs vote & post slightly scummy hence the reason for your vote, now to say it wasnt serious that leaves me confused.

Cephrirs comments seem a bit strong and I dont like his last one about reading into random votes. Yes I dont think there is a goldmine you can get out of them but to say there is nothing ("it doesnt work") to be gained form looking at them and "please dont" seems to me like he is trying to quiet things up. A lot of discussion starts form loking into random votes and many people have cast two votes already and imo any vote after the 1st round is questionable even if it is called random or jokey.

So for above stated reasons

Fos:windkirby

Fos:QuantumFruit

Vote:Cephrir

[darkdude]

Exactly. At this point there is nothing to do other than try to probe into all posts seeing if the scum could have slipped anywhere. Saying "don't try" certainly CANNOT help. Unless you have a better suggestion of course...

[QuantumFruit]

Cephrirs comments seem a bit strong and I dont like his last one about reading into random votes. Yes I dont think there is a goldmine you can get out of them but to say there is nothing ("it doesnt work") to be gained form looking at them and "please dont" seems to me like he is trying to quiet things up.

I think you're a bit strong in your accusations, but I do agree with you that some information can be gleaned from joke votes - if nothing else, then in how people react to them. On the other hand, I think that what Cephrir was trying to prevent was people swerving off track and finding points that aren't actually there. It is possible, after all, to read in to stuff too much. And what happens if you have a flawed premise?

If you go simply from joke voting, I think you have a flawed premise.

I know Akonas in real life, so I felt the need to embarrass him. Windkirby is in both of my games, so I wanted to pick on him a little. They're the only two fellows I am familiar with, hence the vote makes sense. I thought it'd be funny to build up a false case. Apparently, my joke failed, and I sincerely apologize.

I get the impression you thought mozsuggs vote & post slightly scummy hence the reason for your vote, now to say it wasnt serious that leaves me confused.

I think he was mostly saying that it could be perceived as slightly scummy, but it was primarily a joke vote. We were still in the joke vote stage, and no one was taking themselves too seriously. But clearly, some people were taking other players too seriously - so go figure.

At this point, there appear to be two "camps," if I may say so: those dismissing joke votes as joke votes, and those reading into joke votes and saying that they have elements of scum/town. The former could be looked at as trying to cover up their potentially scummy actions and hence trying too hard not to look like scum - because of this, they're scum; the latter could be looked at as trying too hard to appear pro-town because they're going into overkill mode and attacking every minor divergence as scum.

At this point, I could honestly FOS everyone who's been participating, but I don't think it'd do much good.

[Talitha]

Sorry if it sounds like I'm defending her overmuch, but it's only on the second page. (I would agree if she had done it on the first.)

I don't get why you would agree with me if she had done it on the first page, but don't agree when she did it on the second. Can you explain further?

did everyone miss this?

I still don't understand how you can justify a vote, even a random one, with what amounts to a double standard.

We only get one vote. A lot of times I have wanted to send my vote in several different directions, but you gotta pick one. Plus like you said, it was random and very early in the game. But definitely, note should be made of little things like that .. could be useful looking back on it once we are further into the game.

This post to me seems contrdictory, First you say it wasn't serious and then you give a reason that the post stood out more and go on to say mozsuggs post looked as if he was trying to make a 2nd vote appear more normal.

I don't think it's necessarily contradictory. Early votes are usually not based on any fantastic reasoning and as such aren't that serious, but still there can be reasons.

I tend to be long-winded. Where do you get jumpy, though?

When i first read your first few posts they came across like you were a little nervousand I wasn't sure why... but longwindedness might account for most of that.

[Cephrir]

Cephrirs comments seem a bit strong and I dont like his last one about reading into random votes. Yes I dont think there is a goldmine you can get out of them but to say there is nothing ("it doesnt work") to be gained form looking at them and "please dont" seems to me like he is trying to quiet things up.

I'm not trying to quiet anything up. It's not that there's nothing at all in random votes, it's just that there's so little that it's not worth putting a lot of effort into reading them. I was, as QuantumFruit said, just trying to get off the topic of random votes and onto the actual discussion track. Random votes sometimes give us a little information, but not much.

A lot of discussion starts form loking into random votes and many people have cast two votes already and imo any vote after the 1st round is questionable even if it is called random or jokey.

It was still sort-of the random voting phase, even if it doesn't seem to be anymore. And while discussion can start from random votes, it's usually not from reading into motives so much as from someone calling out someone else on the "third vote scumtell" which, while it doesn't really hold true, is still a good way to start a game.

At this point, there appear to be two "camps," if I may say so: those dismissing joke votes as joke votes, and those reading into joke votes and saying that they have elements of scum/town. The former could be looked at as trying to cover up their potentially scummy actions and hence trying too hard not to look like scum - because of this, they're scum; the latter could be looked at as trying too hard to appear pro-town because they're going into overkill mode and attacking every minor divergence as scum.

Bit of an overreaction here. It's a bit much to say that those dismissing joke votes as jokes are trying to cover scummy random votes, although from this statement it is obvious which "camp" you'd put yourself in. Besides, you assume that those people made scummy random votes that needed to be covered up, which isn't neccessarily the case. Reading too hard into random votes isn't a tell either, it's just what some people do. The divergent opinions here, I think, are really just a simple disagreement and nothing more.

At this point, I could honestly FOS everyone who's been participating, but I don't think it'd do much good.

That might indicate to you that you're reading too much into things and scumhunting too overzealously at this point in the game.

[windkirby]

VoD - I figured that if I just said "I wasn't serious" he would've kept persisting about it, as it was already pretty obvious that it wasn't anything too serious. What happened was that I looked at mozsugg's vote and thought it was like maybe a 2/10 on my scum-o-meter, which I felt was good enough for a jokevote (I like to have some sort of miniscule reason, even if it's a dumb one.). Having made my decision, I scrolled down, not paying too much attention to PP's post as it wasn't as lengthy or stand-out-y as mogsuggz's (such a hard-to-spell name!) was. The post may seem contradictory because I provided two unrelative reasons in one post, and I do understand that, but I wanted to make it clear that not only is no one serious on the first page, but there was a slight reason for my vote as well. Basically, I defended myself with two different points. "What? Two different points? Scumtell! Deserves an FoS!" is a reaction that I fail to comprehend.

Talitha - You said she was jumpy and long-winded.
My opinion was that if she had made such a long post explaining a simple joke vote on the first page (so early in the game), then THAT would be weird. However, as the game goes on, it gets progressively less jokey, so if you're going to make a jokevote on the second page, it will probably need more than just a simple sentence.

[darkdude]

If we don't read into random votes, what else do you suggest we do? There ISN'T anything else to read from is there....

[Cephrir]

Talk about jumpy/defensive.

Unvote, Vote windkirby

[zeddicus]

Indeed cephrir, the overall feel of the post does seem defensive. i should really change my vote- oh wait, its already on windkirby.

also:

What happened was that I looked at mozsugg's vote and thought it was like maybe a 2/10 on my scum-o-meter

it registered on your scumdar at all? yet it was "not serious"?

seems odd.

Basically, I defended myself with two different points. "What? Two different points? Scumtell! Deserves an FoS!" is a reaction that I fail to comprehend.

two points that try to let you play the "its random" side, as well as have a different defense. playing both sides is scummy.

[windkirby]

Talk about jumpy/defensive.

Unvote, Vote windkirby

I got a well-backed-up FOS. I'm not supposed to react or something?

[Cephrir]

It's just an FoS. You basically flipped out and went on or five lines about why you made a random vote. Being that defensive this early on and under so little pressure not only is suspicious, but it makes me at wonder what you'd do under actual pressure.

[darkdude]

Yeah I guess you're right guys. This new lead seems much more promising to look into.

Yeah I read the whole damned paragraph. Seems like scum.

I don't think I'll vote just yet though. Also it could be just inexperience in general instead of scumming... a townie could freak out in a similar way.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

I forgot to unvote

mod

do I need to unvote and revote to change my vote?

No, unvoting is optional - Crub

Well looks like discussion is moving along and away from random jokeyness (I wonder who started that). He must be a great person.

[windkirby]

Indeed cephrir, the overall feel of the post does seem defensive. i should really change my vote- oh wait, its already on windkirby.

also:

What happened was that I looked at mozsugg's vote and thought it was like maybe a 2/10 on my scum-o-meter

it registered on your scumdar at all? yet it was "not serious"?

seems odd.

Basically, I defended myself with two different points. "What? Two different points? Scumtell! Deserves an FoS!" is a reaction that I fail to comprehend.

two points that try to let you play the "its random" side, as well as have a different defense. playing both sides is scummy.

Dude, you ninja'd me. Not cool.

I never said the vote was random: stop twisting my words. There's a huge difference between a random vote and a not serious vote.

Of COURSE Mogsuggz did not seem scummy (note that my scum-o-meter works on a post-to-post scoring system, not accumulative): it's just that he seemed

more

scummy than PP's was. What I said was that the vote was not that serious, but that I still felt it would be put to better use on Mogsuggz than PP. That's all there is to it.

Cephir: How serious an FOS is I guess is debatable, but it was an accusation. It is my policy to address all of my accusations, little or small, and do my best to cleanly defend myself and not leave doubt behind. Therefore, I am usually pretty thorough in my defenses, and it would seem that it comes off as scummily defensive. I guess it's something I need to work on.

PS: Thank you, VoD. I am a great person, aren't I?