Mini #556 - The Most Excellent People Ever - Called.

[PJ.]

I can agree with your second point, although I think your excluding newbie scum and you think is clouded by the "too scum" fallacy. On your first point, how are we supposed to analyze actions if we arbitrarily lynch Korlash, and why exactly is korlash the one we should lynch? And arn't you the one who brought up this discussion about discussion? And why would ceaselessly ending day with out much discussion and limiting information to the town be good for the town?

No, we can not get back to lynch Korlash. What do you think about RotN's vote that put him and -1?

[Urzassedatives]

I can agree with your second point, although I think your excluding newbie scum and you think is clouded by the "too scum" fallacy. On your first point, how are we supposed to analyze actions if we arbitrarily lynch Korlash, and why exactly is korlash the one we should lynch? And arn't you the one who brought up this discussion about discussion? And why would ceaselessly ending day with out much discussion and limiting information to the town be good for the town?

No, we can not get back to lynch Korlash. What do you think about RotN's vote that put him and -1?

1) I don't think so. It's not wifom at the point where scum have a strong disincentive to do it. Seeing as I made the argument that I found him town for it, and not him, it's also not wifom in that regard. It's possible that it's excluding newbie scum, but frankly re-read his posts. They have a very genuine sound about what he's trying to accomplish, and the fact that he second guesses himself several times and eventually concludes leads me to believe that he is honestly of the opinion that he is correct. In short, it doesn;t look like any kind of scum play to me. Not even noob scum play.

2) You can analyze who was on the wagon, who was not. Who led the wagon, who jumped on it at the last second. When and where its momentum faltered, and why. When and where its momentum picked up, and why. There are almost unlimited things you can achieve from almost any bandwagon. They are much more valuable than the "OMG YOU RANDOM VOTED ME" crap that I usually see to begin d1s.

3) You asked me if I was even thinking about what I was doing. Thats what brought this up. I am of the opinion that most discussion day one is useless regardless. Think about it; when was the last time you seriously saw someone bringing up d1 discussion as a basis of a case later in the game? Never, probably. If you could find even 5 examples I would be astounded. What IS relevant is the wagon, which we should get back to post haste.

4) you see what you did there? It was clever of you. You implied in your question that limiting discussion was a bad thing, and then somehow magically implied that by decreasing discussion we give ourselves "limited information d2" Thats poppy cock. What I am arguing is that the only relevant information (with few exceptions) that comes out of d1 is the bandwagon. Discussion when there is nothing to discuss gets us nowhere.

5) What I think of it cannot be determined till I know (at least) korlashes, and probably some other people's alignment.

[The Jester]

Ah, interesting idea there. I said senseless killing machine with unhelpful posts being that it seemed you just wanted to kill korlash with little reason etc, that and...I decided to keep reading this at almost 2 in the morning so I didn't see a reason for the lynching or korlash that badly.

Eh, I'm trying to not be a jerk in games. :\ Hmmm.

Also, you didn't bold your vote on me lovo14, your vote is null.

Well I thought that UA's vote was just because of my no lynch talk, because it was right after, I just assumed it, but that's all I have to go on now. These are just my first impressions. As you said, random discussion, nothing too relevant.

[Urzassedatives]

Lets just lynch Korlash then.

[UltimaAvalon]

The Jester: Actually, he didn't explain his vote on you, so how can you make any extrapolations whatsoever what it does or does not mean.

His logic is that since you find people suspicious for being Quote: Stupid and senseless endquote rather than scummy, you're not actually finding scum. You're argument "BUT YOU'RE DOING THE SAME THING LOL" While correct in admitting you are stupid and senseless, does not actually have any validitity at the point where you have no clue why he's voting you.

In fact, I'd say it's even more likely that he's not voting you for the NL, since he posted directly on it without so much as even FoSing you.

This is all correct. My vote on you is based on you trying to use not your own logic, but mith's, from a post that was made over 100 years ago. You're also not trying to find scum, but trying too systematically use the lynch to hopefully maybe kill scum, which means our completely random almost lynch of Korlash would've been just as effective of whatever "strategy" you dug up in the dark forgotten archives of Mafiascum.

Also, historically speaking, Scum tend to use numbers and formulas in hopes that the logic of math will fill in the holes of their own logic.

@Panzer: I simply meant to say that the list of people he was most suspicious of looks exactly like the list of people who have posted the most so far

[Urzassedatives]

So lets lynch korlash, then.

[The Jester]

100 years later, a child will be slapped for using the logic that 2 +2 still equals 4?

Also I retracted that "logic" because I miscounted the numbers, so feel free to discuss that past issue.

[Urzassedatives]

I don't think he's so much attacking you because of what you're advocating, but rather how you're advocating it. So it's still relevant.

Here's a better question:

Why arent you voting korlash?

[The Jester]

Hmmm. He is generally unpredictable, and it would help.

Vote: Korlash

So we get information from this, and determine other things, sounds good.

I think I won't post in any mafia game at 2am anymore...that's what I've learned today.

[Urzassedatives]

That post actually makes zero sense. I am unpredictable? How? Second of all, how does voting me logically follow from me "being unpredictable." Lastly, Why are you voting me after I point out that you're reading UAs arguments wrong? That seems like biting the hand that feeds.

While you are right that lynching me would be fine and dandy for the town in terms of information, thats not the only thing that has to be taken into account. Korlash is expendable because he is terrible at mafia, so I don;t have a problem lynching him. However, if you lynch me you lynch a very good logical scum hunter. These are the kind of things you will learn with time, young jester.

[Urzassedatives]

Also, prods on:

Lloyd
tyhess
WhoMe?
Thanatos
RangeroftheNorth

plz.

Replace early and often. We can't lynch Korlash if everyone isn't here. Try to get some good platers this time, rosso. You've given me very little to work with.

[The Jester]

...Que? I voted Korlash, not you. I said Korlash is unpredictable.

[Urzassedatives]

DOH! It appears you are not the only one who should not post early mornings.

[Korlash]

For someone who says it wants to limit discussion you sure talk a lot.

Also I'm fairly confident in my read on Jester. If lynhing right now was a good idea, it would be him.

However I second the prods thing. We need more people talking...

[WhoMe?]

its my birthday this weekend, so more beer less posting is my mantra. *I am around tho.

[WhoMe?]

after a re-read, i'm going to

unvote vote the Jester

I don't think a No lynch is helpful on day one. I particularly don't think it's helpful when based on odd or even reasoning.

[Urzassedatives]

So it's unhelpful. That's fine, you disagree with him. More important is what you think his motivations were. Do you think he honestly believed no lynch was the best possible option? If so, then voting him is silly.

Do you think, instead, that he was trying to maliciously mislead the town by voting no lynch? Personally, I have a hard time seeing that. But if you DO, then it is the only situation where a vote is appropriate.

[WhoMe?]

yes, I believe a no lynch is a "bad thing TM" at this time. I find Jester's backing of it suspicious, hence the vote.

[Urzassedatives]

Unfortunately, that's not what I asked you.

I too think that no lynch is a bad thing. If that is the case, then why am I not voting the jester? The reason is because what I or what you think of it doesn;t matter in terms of determining his alignment. Read his posts, and then ask yourself if HE genuinely thought it was a good thing for the town.

[Korlash]

here we go again...

[Urzassedatives]

Korlash, I want to say this as nice as possible...

Do you know how to read?

[Korlash]

shouldn't you be asking Who that? Oh wait, thats right your somehow fully interested in me today. I know I'm that awsome but I'm afraid all your advances aren't going to get you anywhere.

You might have better luck with... Well... God I wouldn't condemn anyone to that fate... jeeze...

[tyhess]

Urzaaedatives.....couple of things:
1) I posted thursday. Today is Saturday. Sorry if I'm not a god and post whenever I feel like it.
2) Are you always this full of yourself?
3) I don't care how expendable Korlash is, a page 5 lynch with so little info and people who haven't posted yet is NOT good. I don't want like 100 page days, but give it a break. Do you happen to be an alt of sarcastro?

[Urzassedatives]

Urzaaedatives.....couple of things:
1) I posted thursday. Today is Saturday. Sorry if I'm not a god and post whenever I feel like it.
2) Are you always this full of yourself?
3) I don't care how expendable Korlash is, a page 5 lynch with so little info and people who haven't posted yet is NOT good. I don't want like 100 page days, but give it a break. Do you happen to be an alt of sarcastro?

1) generally most mods prod after 48 hours of inactivity and replace after 72. I think thats pretty much how most do it. If you're trying to imply that one post every three days is "good enough" then get the fuck out of this game.

2) Care to address my points, rather than attacking me personally? You'll notice that I have no problem with attacking personally (I did it in my last point) so long as you address the points. You did not, so you have not earned the right to insult.

3) Refer to my post where I tell you the only relevant info we get out of d1 IS the lynch. Please tell me if you disagree with the stone cold LOGIC I lay out. If you do, please tell me why. If you do not, please shut the fuck up.

[Lloyd]

tripple post ftw..turns out this is the right thread. i need to read those numbers not the title....my vote and suspician stands

I disagree with you that The Jester's no lynch vote is similar to a random vote.