Mini 554 - Mafia in Vollville - Over!!

[Jitsu]

I'm not sure that threatening a dayvig based on a player's general knowledge could really be considered a scumtell.

I'm all for arbitrary daykills, but announcing them beforehand is just silly. It takes all the fun out of the "OMG! A daykill! Who did it?! Do you think they're scum?!" reactions.

Not that I think you actually have a daykill.

Why are arbitrary daykills a good idea?

=======================================

Votecount #2

Erg0 - 3 (Adel, Guardian, Oman)

Matt_S - 2 (ChaosOmega, Xylthixlm)
pickemgenius - 2 (opie, TrustGossip)
Xylthixlm - 1 (Matt_S)
Oman - 1 (Erg0)
Incognito - 1 (Jitsu)
opie - 1 (Incognito)
TrustGossip - 1 (pickemgenius)

Not voting - 0 (nobody)

With 12 alive, it's 7 to lynch.
Deadline for D1: Saturday March 1, 10:55AM GMT+10
=======================================

[Adel]

Dayvig: Erg0

were you scum? did I nail you?

[opie]

Oman why are you so excited about this mini?

[Erg0]

Dayvig: Erg0

were you scum? did I nail you?

I always suspected you were an ABR alt.

[Xylthixlm]

Why are arbitrary daykills a good idea?

Why is lynching a good idea?

[Erg0]

Nah, some are PM daykills. They're slightly more powerful for town and scum alike, so the new trend is to announcing in thread.

I'm interested to know if Erg0 does in fact have a daykill, because this could be an interesting (and breakable) setup if he does.

Erg0: do you?

Quit fishing, I'm not going to confirm or deny anything but I'd strongly suggest that nobody start hinting at roles based on the assumption that I have a dayvig. This applies to everyone.

[Jitsu]

Why are arbitrary daykills a good idea?

Why is lynching a good idea?

Lynching and daykills are both fine, if done properly; it's the arbitrary part I disagree with.

Granted on D1, there is usually not much information to go on, but I still think that it is in the town's best interest to go for the highest percentage plays and those that give the most information, rather than choose targets arbitrarily.

Do you disagree?

[Incognito]

I'm wondering the same thing as Jitsu basically.

Xylthixlm, it seems like by asking your question about lynching, you're equating arbitrary daykills with the whole lynching process. Do you consider the process leading up to a lynch or even the lynch itself to be something not based on information gathered from the thread?

[Oman]

Erg0, its just, this might be a Texas Justice sort of thing.

Becuase I'm not sure if you do, but I know I have a daykill.

This is for Underground Mafia:

Daykill Jistu

[Matt_S]

Xylthixlm, what Incognito and Jitsu said. I have nothing more to add really. I don't see how you can argue for arbitrary daykills over lynches.

And how'd the dayvig joke turn into a semiserious discussion?

[Xylthixlm]

Lynching and daykills are both fine, if done properly; it's the arbitrary part I disagree with.

Granted on D1, there is usually not much information to go on, but I still think that it is in the town's best interest to go for the highest percentage plays and those that give the most information, rather than choose targets arbitrarily.

Do you disagree?

Main Entry: ar·bi·trary
Function: adjective
1: depending on individual discretion (as of a judge) and not fixed by law <the manner of punishment is arbitrary>
2 a: not restrained or limited in the exercise of power : ruling by absolute authority <an arbitrary government> b: marked by or resulting from the unrestrained and often tyrannical exercise of power <protection from arbitrary arrest and detention>
3 a: based on or determined by individual preference or convenience rather than by necessity or the intrinsic nature of something <an arbitrary standard> <take any arbitrary positive number> <arbitrary division of historical studies into watertight compartments — A. J. Toynbee> b: existing or coming about seemingly at random or by chance or as a capricious and unreasonable act of will <when a task is not seen in a meaningful context it is experienced as being arbitrary — Nehemiah Jordan>

Why did you assume that when I said "arbitrary", I meant definition 3b?

[Matt_S]

I guess that's the end of that one.

[Erg0]

The argument? Or Jitsu?

[Incognito]

Ew semantics. I think I was thinking the same definition as Jitsu (number 1):

ar·bi·trar·y (är'bĭ-trěr'ē) Pronunciation Key
adj.

1. Determined by chance, whim, or impulse, and not by necessity, reason, or principle: stopped at the first motel we passed, an arbitrary choice.
2. Based on or subject to individual judgment or preference: The diet imposes overall calorie limits, but daily menus are arbitrary.
3. Established by a court or judge rather than by a specific law or statute: an arbitrary penalty.
4. Not limited by law; despotic: the arbitrary rule of a dictator.

[pickemgenius]

I think these last few posts have been dumb, as is this one.

[Guardian]

Xyl, did you mean definition 3b? If not, please explain what you did mean, and why you thought that it should not have been assumed that you meant 3b.

I'd like everyone to examine the Erg0 wagon and comment on it, say if it is the best place for votes or not, and explain why. If you think there is a better place for votes, explain why that is the best place.

[Xylthixlm]

Xyl, did you mean definition 3b? If not, please explain what you did mean, and why you thought that it should not have been assumed that you meant 3b.

I'm in favor of daykills being decided by the daykiller, by whatever method they want to use. If you know a better word for that than "arbitrarily", please suggest it. Personally, when I get a daykill, I tend to wait until day has lasted for a while and then just suddenly shoot the scummiest person.

As for why I thought it shouldn't be assumed... well, in fact, I expected that some people

would

assume I meant "randomly". Take that however you like.

[Jitsu]

Ew semantics. I think I was thinking the same definition as Jitsu (number 1):

1. Determined by chance, whim, or impulse, and not by necessity, reason, or principle: stopped at the first motel we passed, an arbitrary choice.

Yes, this is the definition I had in mind. I merely heard what I thought was an anti-town statement by Xyl and wanted to hear his explanation.

His latest explanation, in response to Guardian, is satisfactory to me, but I don't know why he didn't just say that earlier unless he was trying to see who was ready to make a mountain out of a molehill.

[Jitsu]

Erg0, its just, this might be a Texas Justice sort of thing.

Becuase I'm not sure if you do, but I know I have a daykill.

This is for Underground Mafia:

Daykill Jistu

Interesting. What exactly did I do to you in Underground Mafia to deserve this? As I recall, you were one of the few people that I did not attack very hard in that game. Plus I even slowed down a lurker wagon against you, which was good because you were the Doc in that game.

Adel's attempt against Erg0 was (painfully) obviously a gambit, but you are actually saying you know you have a daykill?

Are you claiming to have Vig ability here?

I have to believe you are joking, but haven't you just opened yourself up to LAL if I don't turn up dead? Or are you just emboldened because nobody's said anything about Adel's gambit?

While I'm on the subject, what was your motivation for asking Erg0 about having a DayVig? To learn if this is a hidden Texas Justice setup? That sounds like a horrible reason to ask someone about their role that early on D1. If we do have such a setup with lots of people possessing Vig abilities, it will be painfully obvious soon, as few people ever seem to be able to hold onto a bullet for very long in Texas Justice.

I don't know what you're up to, but you aren't earning any townie points in my book.

Unvote

FoS: Oman

[Jitsu]

I'd like everyone to examine the Erg0 wagon and comment on it, say if it is the best place for votes or not, and explain why. If you think there is a better place for votes, explain why that is the best place.

This sounds a little like a scum trying to lead the discussion around an innocent townie, but since you could just as easily be a helpful townie looking to return the discussion back to the matter at hand, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

I really don't see much of a case against Erg0. Most people in the world probably don't know that the capital of Australia is Canberra, and not Sydney, and I could see why an Aussie might be slightly miffed at that. Erg0's "threatened dayvig" seemed a lot more like a joke than an actual DayVig claim to me (he did put a smilie after it), unlike Oman's recent post where he declares that "I know I have a daykill", which sounded a lot less like a joke.

Erg0 did open the door just a little bit with what looked like a joke DayVig claim (which is why I don't think you should ever joke about something like that), but the pro-town play is to let it go if you think it's a joke, as protecting any town power roles is a lot more important on D1 than learning about the setup.

Erg0's post that we should not discuss power roles is a definite pro-town statement (as well as being correct). I think Erg0 did make a mistake when joking about the DayVig, but Oman's fishing and making a more serious-sounding DayVig claim without a good reason to, is a more serious offense to me. A good townie shouldn't be pressing other people for role info or divulging their own on D1.

I think I just convinced myself to:

Vote: Oman

.

[Incognito]

I think these last few posts have been dumb, as is this one.

If you think these last few posts have been dumb, why not take the initiative to discuss something worthwhile? It's not as if there's an absence of issues to discuss within the thread.

And actually now that I look back on your contribution, you're criticizing the last few posts as being dumb but you yourself have only contributed to discussion about your name.

Unvote; Vote: pickemgenius

[pickemgenius]

I think these last few posts have been dumb, as is this one.

If you think these last few posts have been dumb, why not take the initiative to discuss something worthwhile? It's not as if there's an absence of issues to discuss within the thread.

And actually now that I look back on your contribution, you're criticizing the last few posts as being dumb but you yourself have only contributed to discussion about your name.

Unvote; Vote: pickemgenius

we've had two fantastic discussions over two words, and(pickemgenius/arbitrarily,and two "daykills")
good stuff...

You don't know me.

I forgive you.


i'll comment on stuff when stuff becomes relevant.

[opie]

Unvote: pick

em

genius

Post 64 made me laugh after reading dictionary definitions. Ugh. But to throw in my two cents, when I read your post Xylthixlm I read it with arbitrary meaning 3b. Why? Because when I use that word, that how I most often use it. Enter "define:arbitrary" into google and the majority of the results are similar.

Guardian driving Ergo's wagon makes me uneasy. You demand everyone give there thoughts on Erg0 and explain why they don't think he is worthy of a vote? I'm not voting for him because I haven't heard a case made against him. He threatened us with a day vig? Really? Right now to me this wagon is random bordering on suspicious.

Vote: Guardian
FOS: Oman and Adel

[Jitsu]

I like Opie's post above.

@Guardian: Since you're voting for Erg0 and do seem to be making an attempt to push his wagon here, why don't you explain why you think Erg0 is more deserving of a vote than Oman?

[Guardian]

Guardian driving Ergo's wagon makes me uneasy.

I'm not driving a wagon, but why would me doing so make you uneasy?

You demand everyone give there thoughts on Erg0 and explain why they don't think he is worthy of a vote?

I've also demanded that people not thinking Erg0 is worthy of a vote explain why someone else is. I've asked for discussion, in a game of mafia. This troubles you?

Vote: Guardian
FOS: Oman and Adel

Why is voting for Erg0 suspicious?

I like Opie's post above.

What about it? Do you agree?

@Guardian: Since you're voting for Erg0 and do seem to be making an attempt to push his wagon here, why don't you explain why you think Erg0 is more deserving of a vote than Oman?

I'm not sure who is most deserving of a vote right now.

Erg0 has since claimed he does this every game, but the "hang separately option" and "I just want you to hang" bit raised my eyebrows, and made me think he was the best wagon at the time.

The (presumably fake?) day vigs don't really say anything to me.

Opie's post actually heightened my suspicion there -- I'd really like a good explanation from both opie, and Jitsu who categorically "liked opie's post" to explain why everyone voting Erg0 is worthy of suspicion.