PIRATES v. NINJAS! Game Over!

[Mr Stoofer]

Vote Count

Gorrad: 6 (Fritzler, Flameaxe, The Fonz, UltimaAvalon, Claus, Mgm)
Iammars: 5 (Guardian, Thesp, Sir Tornado, mikeburnfire, Twomz)
UltimaAvalon: 3 (JordanA24, Guardian, Erg0)
Thestatusquo: 1 (Rosso Carne)
Kison: 1 (hasdgfas)
Claus: 1 (cicero)
cicero: 1 (Iammars)
hasdgfas: 1 (Kison)
Skruffs: 1 (Samruc)
Sir Tornado: 1 (Thok)
Thok: 1 (KaleiÐoscøpe)

Not voting: 3 (Skruffs, Thestatusquo, Gorrad)

13 to lynch!

Deadline will be ~20th February.

Under Rule [05], nobody would be lynched at deadline.

[hasdgfas]

It's not sufficient to vote because he has quite a few votes already and it's a weak enough reason that I feel the number of votes currently on him is enough. I suspect him, but not enough to vote. Mostly because it's pirates v. ninjas mafia and talking like a pirate is cool, even if you're not one. I can see where the logic is coming from, but I want to see what Iammars has to say before my vote is placed.

[JordanA24]

We can lynch Gorrad tomorrow. Iammars is for today.

Am I missing something important from the reasoning against Mars? All I can see is that he confirmed in pirate speak, which may imply that he is a Ninjascum who thought that the Pirates are the town and the Ninja's are the scum, which is possible I suppose, but I think it's much more likely that he did it just for a joke.

[Thesp]

We can lynch Gorrad tomorrow. Iammars is for today.

Am I missing something important from the reasoning against Mars? All I can see is that he confirmed in pirate speak, which may imply that he is a Ninjascum who thought that the Pirates are the town and the Ninja's are the scum, which is possible I suppose, but I think it's much more likely that he did it just for a joke.

Why do you think it's "much more likely" he did it as a joke?

[JordanA24]

We can lynch Gorrad tomorrow. Iammars is for today.

Am I missing something important from the reasoning against Mars? All I can see is that he confirmed in pirate speak, which may imply that he is a Ninjascum who thought that the Pirates are the town and the Ninja's are the scum, which is possible I suppose, but I think it's much more likely that he did it just for a joke.

Why do you think it's "much more likely" he did it as a joke?

Ochkam's Razor. It's a much simpler explaination, and therefore in my eyes, the more likely.

[Gorrad]

Gorrad, it's not the discussing of the setup that is scummy, it is the manner in which you and Mr. Iammars are doing so.

I don't follow, sorry.

[JordanA24]

Oh, and before I forget, Happy Birthday Mars!

[Gorrad]

Oh, and before I forget, Happy Birthday Mars!

I second the motion

[Thesp]

We can lynch Gorrad tomorrow. Iammars is for today.

Am I missing something important from the reasoning against Mars? All I can see is that he confirmed in pirate speak, which may imply that he is a Ninjascum who thought that the Pirates are the town and the Ninja's are the scum, which is possible I suppose, but I think it's much more likely that he did it just for a joke.

Why do you think it's "much more likely" he did it as a joke?

Ochkam's Razor. It's a much simpler explaination, and therefore in my eyes, the more likely.

How is it a "much simpler explanation"? And I'm not sure there is

ceteris parabis

here, which is necessary for Occam's Razor to obtain.

It occurs to me that you could try to swing Occam's Razor at nearly

any

tell - e.g.

A:

"Sorry to see Enrique die last night"

B:

"FOS:

A

, more likely to have had something to do with Enrique's death."

A:

"Nuh-uh, Occam's Razor, I just noticed his death and commented on it."

In summation, you are making things up to justify your hunch/lie/guess.

[Erg0]

I kind of see Jordan's point here, though he may not have expressed it in the best way. Seeing Mars' "Yar" as scummy requires a lot of assumptions to be made about the setup, none of which we can be particularly confident of being correct. If we lynch him, it would essentially be in order to test those assumptions rather than because he is scummy in his own right.

I'm not sure, however, that this is really all that there is to the case.

[Thesp]

I kind of see Jordan's point here, though he may not have expressed it in the best way. Seeing Mars' "Yar" as scummy requires a lot of assumptions to be made about the setup, none of which we can be particularly confident of being correct.

This is a decent point, which was not at all what JordanA24 is saying. Note that it doesn't require a bazillion assumptions about the setup, just that there is a group of scum who are ninjas, and who are not comprised of pirates (and are otherwise unaware of what other roles might be out there before N1), which currently seem very, very reasonable to make.

By the way, Iammars, are you a pirate?

[Erg0]

Apologies, I retract the last sentence of that post. I should re-read rather than relying on memory.

Gorrad, it's not the discussing of the setup that is scummy, it is the manner in which you and Mr. Iammars are doing so.

Unvote, Vote: Mgm

Where did Iammars speculate on setup? His only posts are his confirm and a random vote.

[Erg0]

I kind of see Jordan's point here, though he may not have expressed it in the best way. Seeing Mars' "Yar" as scummy requires a lot of assumptions to be made about the setup, none of which we can be particularly confident of being correct.

This is a decent point, which was not at all what JordanA24 is saying. Note that it doesn't require a bazillion assumptions about the setup, just that there is a group of scum who are ninjas, and who are not comprised of pirates (and are otherwise unaware of what other roles might be out there before N1), which currently seem very, very reasonable to make.

By the way, Iammars, are you a pirate?

I believe there are a couple more assumptions implicit in this case, but I'll leave that discussion until we actually hear something from Mars.

[Thok]

This is a decent point, which was not at all what JordanA24 is saying. Note that it doesn't require a bazillion assumptions about the setup, just that there is a group of scum who are ninjas, and who are not comprised of pirates (and are otherwise unaware of what other roles might be out there before N1), which currently seem very, very reasonable to make.

You realize, of course, that I've hinted that I'm uncomfortable with making one of the assumptions you've suggested.

Also, the argument against Iammars' comment being a ploy requires that he deliberately makes a post to try to confuse us, but doesn't ponder the possibilities of the set-up in order to determine whether or not it's a good idea. That seems a bit convoluted and the analysis of "it's just a joke" is much more reasonable.

There's also at least a third explanation for Iammars' comment, although I believe Thesp realizes that.

[JordanA24]

Well explained Erg0, that's pretty much what I was on about.

I really fail to see how someone confirming in piratespeak is a decent basis for a vote, it is a very questionable scumtell that has a simpler possible explaination about it.

[Mgm]

Apologies, I retract the last sentence of that post. I should re-read rather than relying on memory.

Gorrad, it's not the discussing of the setup that is scummy, it is the manner in which you and Mr. Iammars are doing so.

Unvote, Vote: Mgm

Where did Iammars speculate on setup? His only posts are his confirm and a random vote.

Fair point, I thought I read someone else besides Gorrad commenting on the setup and it seems like I mistakenly put Iammars name with it.

Sorry Iammars, Happy B-day.

Am I missing something important from the reasoning against Mars? All I can see is that he confirmed in pirate speak, which may imply that he is a Ninjascum who thought that the Pirates are the town and the Ninja's are the scum, which is possible I suppose, but I think it's much more likely that he did it just for a joke.

There is a much easier explanation: he could just simply be a pirate.

[Mgm]

We can lynch Gorrad tomorrow. Iammars is for today.

What exactly leads you to putting Iammars before Gorrad?

[Mgm]

Well explained Erg0, that's pretty much what I was on about.

I really fail to see how someone confirming in piratespeak is a decent basis for a vote, it is a very questionable scumtell that has a simpler possible explaination about it.

How did you come to the conclusion that piratespeak is a "questionable scumtell". That requires the assumption that pirates are scum.

You've slipped up. You're a ninja, aren't you?

[Thesp]

This is a decent point, which was not at all what JordanA24 is saying. Note that it doesn't require a bazillion assumptions about the setup, just that there is a group of scum who are ninjas, and who are not comprised of pirates (and are otherwise unaware of what other roles might be out there before N1), which currently seem very, very reasonable to make.

You realize, of course, that I've hinted that I'm uncomfortable with making one of the assumptions you've suggested.

Yes, which I've alluded to - I'm awaiting Iammars's pirate/non-pirate claim first. It's also partially why I don't think you should be allowed anywhere near the endgame. (I admit it's early to commit to this line of thought.)

Also, the argument against Iammars' comment being a ploy requires that he deliberately makes a post to try to confuse us, but doesn't ponder the possibilities of the set-up in order to determine whether or not it's a good idea. That seems a bit convoluted and the analysis of "it's just a joke" is much more reasonable.

I'm not sure how much complication this adds - I could easily conceive of ninja-scum thinking, "Oh, I'd better act piratey!"

There's also at least a third explanation for Iammars' comment, although I believe Thesp realizes that.

Yes, if I'm thinking what you're thinking. Otherwise, there's a fourth explanation out there.

What exactly leads you to putting Iammars before Gorrad?

Largely (though not entirely), I think Iammars's alignment tells us more about Gorrad's than Gorrad's does about Iammars.

[Thok]

Yes, which I've alluded to - I'm awaiting Iammars's pirate/non-pirate claim first. It's also partially why I don't think you should be allowed anywhere near the endgame. (I admit it's early to commit to this line of thought.)

We've had this sort of discussion in SoaP mafia also. You had a similar reaction to my comments there. I was town in that game.

[Thestatusquo]

The iammars points are excellent for a day one wagon, in addition,

FOS: Jordan

for making a point, and then attempting to piggyback on a different point with the same impact made by someone else. The points weren't even close to the same thing, and for jordan to act like that was what he was trying to say all along is disingenuous.

Vote: Iammars

Pressure for the good case.

[Mgm]

There's probably a pirate cop and doc, as well as a ninja cop and doc- a fact supported by DGB's role.

Really? As far as I can tell, DGB was a Cop who found Pirates, which doesn't really imply anything to me.

Why not? If there was someone who found pirates, it makes sense to have someone who find ninjas. Otherwise the pirates would be at an unfair disadvantage which messes up the balance of the game.

[Mgm]

Guardian, at the end of your last post, you mentioned hasd and something to do with putting a 5th vote on someone. As far as I can tell, hasd hasn't put a 5th vote on someone, or mentioned anything about it, did you mean Claus?

Why even call someone out on a 5th vote, when I've been called out on a 6th one?

[Mgm]

As for Mars, he's getting a good number of votes while he's not at his computer. The logic behind his bandwagon is the biggest tell I've seen in the game so far, so normally I'd vote him, but I'd rather give him a chance to say his peace than add one more vote to the list of ones he gets while not able to explain himself.

So what tell did you see?

[Erg0]

Wow, this game is proud home to some of the cruder attempts at deception that I've seen in a while.

I have enough faith in Stoofer as a mod to believe that he would not set up any player to the point that the first words out of their mouth would result in them unwittingly revealing themselves to be scum.