Mini 543 - Election Day - Game Over!

[hasdgfas]

Gives immunity to me (female by the way) saying the FOS was insightful, admits it is a null tell

Sorry about the gender issues, avatars confuse me genderwise.

I did not say the FOS was what was insightful. Was that all you had done throughout the game so far? no. You had said many other things which I had like.
Null tell on the self-immunity, yes, but as I just mentioned, that was not my only reason for voting.


Also, you find me suspicious because I asked whether votes were hidden or not? It wasn't clarified in the rules, so why shouldn't I ask for clarification? Anyone can be hurt or helped by hidden voting. Why would you think that I want my vote to be hidden? That seems to be what you're insinuating here. I wanted to clarify because everyone's strategy changes based on whether we know who voted for whom or not.

Also, could you clarify what you're trying to say with the WIFOM'ing there? I don't know what you're saying

[Rishi]

Immunity Count

*Shanba – 2 (Boggzie, ibaesha)
QuickBen – 1 (Akonas)
ibaesha – 1 (QuickBen)
Qman – 1 (Holy)
farside22 – 1 (hasdgfas)

*Would receive immunity if polls opened today.

Not voting: opie, Shanba, Rigel, farside22, Qman

Requests to Open Polls:

0

Six votes required to open polls. Election Day will automatically occur January 23 at 11pm EST.

Note: This is identical to the last immunity count.

[farside22]

@hasdgfas: This is the quote I was talking about. I thought you were WIFOM Holy, but Holy WIFOM this and voted against me so I was confused by the WIFOM.

FOS: Akonas

self immunity looks scummie.

Somehow true... But that kind of action seems attracting attentions, I still have a doubt that a scum would attract attention like that.

Hello Mr. WIFOM. How are you today?

I thought asking the question about open voting was more benifical to the scum actually. There was a night 0 they could have had a discussion on voting and who to get rid of.
I think it would have been entertaining to see who voted for who without knowing that the vote was going to be seen and see what groups voted for whom. I just think it would have made a good trap for the mafia not knowing then the town not knowing that answer.

[hasdgfas]

Ah, well. She used a WIFOM argument, I pointed it out, and then she was trying to defend her point with more WIFOM, which she stated herself. Sorry about confusing you.

Maybe the question did help scum, and so I apologize for that, but my playstyle would be totally different if the answer was different, and I wanted to know how I should play. If they were hidden votes, we would need to go after the more lurker, mysterious people more because the hidden votes help them, but since we will know who voted for whom, they can't hide behind that wall of secrecy, and have to start stating opinions or we will call them out when they vote for someone after they said little to nothing about that person throughout the day.

[Holy]

I don't think there is anyone that is worth a vote for immunity at this point.

Granting Immunity won't hurt you know... it creates discussion and maybe a scum will stumble in the middle of the discussion, who knows...
And I'm sure that controversies will occur (yay! discussion), for example if someone starts to grant me an immunity, I guess farside22 definitely will object and sound that to the town (note: I'm on top 3 of her suspects), isn't it sounds fun ^.^
[actually I got an eerie feeling that no one trust me at all right now and want to vote (i.e. bandwagon) me silently ]
@Qman: I guess my random Immunity for my cutie hamster will stay for a moment ^.^ (personal hunch).

@Holy:

It is way too early to be asking that question. I think only 5 of us has really been talking so far. Nothing much to go on.
So far the only thing I've learned is Akonas likes to exaggerate things.

luls..

FOS: Akonas

self immunity looks scummie.

Somehow true... But that kind of action seems attracting attentions, I still have a doubt that a scum would attract attention like that.

Here she says that she thinks this is somewhat true, which is not consistent with the rest of her posts, where she strongly defends Akonas' action. I'd like an explanation.

Strongly what!? Here:

Let me clear this, opie's right about it's a bit of a null tell. But with his

timing

,

I

didn't found it as scummy too.

Note the

I

? It is my feeling, not yours, I might be mistaken, so please feel free to suspect him . Anyone may try to convince me with their theories that he is the scum, I won't ignore it if it thrown.
About the "somehow true": because there's a possibility a scum want to benefit from that action

(risky scum move, IMO)

, on the other hand of course a townie would feel "why not myself, I know who I am, an Innocents". But I already said what I felt about his action though.

[Rishi]

Prodding ibaesha.

[Shanba]

Just a few words in response to Shanba. (Welcome by the way!)

opie has done

little scumhunting

and has been moslty engaged in theoretical discussion

Emphasis mine. I would just like to point out that we are only on page 4 of this thread. I'm not sure how much scum hunting is expected of me at this point. And with regards to the theoretical discussion, there are some unique and novel game mechanics involved and I think a lot of my theoretical discussion as well as others has been trying to figure out the best way to play this game.

Eh, fair enough. It just seems to me that the game should be beyond that point b now. TBH, I haven't really checked how much scumhunting others have done.

Now it seems strange to me that opie would wait two days before asking the question in the first post. The only reason I can see is that someone else brought up that point before her: Rigel. Her parroting of his point seems strage in itself, but what worries me more is hasdgfas' reaction, in which he credits opie with the point. Clearly, she is gaining credit for others work. I'm beginning to see this as a scumtell after various games.

First I'll note that I'm a

he

and not

she

. That aside, I did ask Akonas why he thought we would assume he was partners with Holy after Rigel mentioned it.

And

I did so

because

Rigel mentioned it. I don't deny that. I didn't feel that Rigel flat out asked Akonas what his reasons were. So I did. With regard to hasdgfas comment, I'm not sure how that can be considered against me. I asked a question. It piggy-backed off of Rigels comments. I didn't claim anyone elses work. Plus hasdgfas agreed with me that he didn't consider Akonas and Holy as a pair before Akonas brought it up. Which is not something Rigel said. I'm not sure how any of this is a scum tell.

The scumtell is something I've been beginning to think is a scumtell based on thigns I've seen in other games recently (unfortunately, ongoing ones - though blandville is finished and has an example of what I mean). It's taking credit for what another person does. Rigel digs up the question (which I believe is implied by his post - any reasonable respons to him requires a response to the question, so stating the question flat out seems unnecessary) and then you take credit for it by restating it in more forceful terms. My gut reaction to it was reinforced by hasdgfas then saying it was your question - not your fault, I guess, but it illustrates my conclusion fairly nicely.

My explanation is stretching a little, it's true - but by probing I feel I can open up more avenues of enquiry. I'm not too thrilled by the current conversation.

[Akonas]

I agree with Shanba. We need to hear more from the people who haven't been saying much. I've seen a few posts saying basically "Uh huh. Me too. You're all kind of suspicious, you know." I'd like to hear exactly where your suspicions lie.

FoS: ibaesha, Qman, Rigel, QuickBen. Talk more.

@farside22: You're painting me up as purely OMGUSing. I didn't trust you from the start. Looking back, I can't find any really huge scumtells - your first couple of posts just seemed unproductive, and I though that FOSing me for selfimmunity was kind of stupid.

The link I'm drawing between hasdgfas and farside22 isn't just because they agreed. They both seemed to be lauding each other for the first bit of the game. Now that I mention them as possible scum partners, they start attacking each other.

Yes, I thought farside's FoS was silly because it had very weak reasoning behind it. The OMGUS thing wasn't just OMGUS. We've been arguing and we can each claim OMGUS on the other. But it's Not. Just. OMGUS. Stop trying to portray me that way.

Someone said that farside and hasdgfas had traded immunity... I think it was just farside giving hasd immunity.

[Boggzie]

unvote

My vote was a joke because I had played with mcpaltp.

[farside22]

@Boggzie:

If you wish to not grant immunity to someone that you granted immunity too please see the post from Rishi.

wait, wait, wait - That vote was random,

unvote

, because I've played with mcpaltp before and we had fun.

I hope this is not too annoying, but please say "Un-immunity" if you want to stop granting immunity to a player.

I want people to feel free to Vote and Unvote in an unofficial capacity, if they so choose.

[Holy]

Boggzie - Foggy Boxy...
>.>
<.<

[hasdgfas]

Let's actually have some serious discussion so we can avoid getting deadlined.

[Holy]

Well, we need some prods too to accomplish a merrier discussion >.>

[Rishi]

Let's actually have some serious discussion so we can avoid getting deadlined.

Your deadline is Election Day, January 23rd, 11pm. I will not set an earlier deadline.

Well, we need some prods too to accomplish a merrier discussion >.>

The only person who has not posted in the past week is ibaesha, who has already been prodded.

[hasdgfas]

oh right, I forgot about the Election Day deadline. 16 days away then, we have time, but people need to weigh in on what they've seen so far.

[farside22]

There has only been a few people really talking and trying to figure things out. I still think people puting up their top suspects is not a bad idea. At least it gives us somewhere to go with the discussion. I agree with Akonas. The people he FOSed should be chimming in with something, but adding Boggzie to that FOS. He hasn't really said much of anything useful thus far.

[opie]

Eh, fair enough. It just seems to me that the game should be beyond that point b now. TBH, I haven't really checked how much scumhunting others have done.

If that is true, then why would you criticize my scumhunting? That seems like a reckless redirection of suspicion.

[Shanba]

Eh, fair enough. It just seems to me that the game should be beyond that point b now. TBH, I haven't really checked how much scumhunting others have done.

If that is true, then why would you criticize my scumhunting? That seems like a reckless redirection of suspicion.

And that seems like useless rhetoric. See, two can play at that game. I was comparing to other games I'd played, and my impressions as to how much scumhunting had been done in those games by this point in the day.

[opie]

I don't see how that is useless rhetoric:
-You said that I had done little scum hunting.
-You used that as a basis to vote for me.
-You admit that you had not checked to see how much others had done in this game.

Here's why I think that's reckless. When I make these types of accusations, I want to be able to stand behind them. Otherwise I'm focusing suspicion on someone who may not deserve it. And that's bad for the town. This kind of play is either sloppy or scummy.

See, two can play at that game.

What game are you talking about?

[Holy]

The only person who has not posted in the past week is ibaesha, who has already been prodded.

Aah, I see.. >.>


Foggy Boggzie needs to talk more too, sheesh.. came in just to unvote.
Or maybe you just being too busy to discuss with us

[Akonas]

I would vote for the lurkers, but there's too many of them... it seems we're all just waiting for posts/prods.

[Shanba]

I don't see how that is useless rhetoric:
-You said that I had done little scum hunting.
-You used that as a basis to vote for me.
-You admit that you had not checked to see how much others had done in this game.

That seems like a reckless redirection of suspicion.

This is what I was condemning as rhetoric.

Here's why I think that's reckless. When I make these types of accusations, I want to be able to stand behind them. Otherwise I'm focusing suspicion on someone who may not deserve it. And that's bad for the town. This kind of play is either sloppy or scummy.[/quote]
See, you've missed the point of what I was explaining in the last post. I've played a few games, I have preconceptions of how much scumhunting I expect to be done by a certain point. Granted, it may be different in this game, because of the mechanic's change - but that doesn't change that I get a different vibe from you than I get from, say, Holy, who does seem to be scumhunting (even though I disagree with her).

See, two can play at that game.

What game are you talking about?

The use of rhetoric. Which is what I used in my last post.

[farside22]

I don't see how that is useless rhetoric:
-You said that I had done little scum hunting.
-You used that as a basis to vote for me.
-You admit that you had not checked to see how much others had done in this game.

Here's why I think that's reckless. When I make these types of accusations, I want to be able to stand behind them. Otherwise I'm focusing suspicion on someone who may not deserve it. And that's bad for the town. This kind of play is either sloppy or scummy.

See, two can play at that game.

What game are you talking about?

It seems if I'm reading things right with Shanba he is doing a meta game style against you because he knows your play style. He questioned it. I didn't see harm in that. As Akonas stated sometimes you just have to start somewhere and make claims. This game is different were votes won't may not scare the scum as easily into putting their foot in their mouth.

[opie]

I don't think Shanba isn't doing a meta analysis based on my game style. I think he's applying his observations of others in past games and applying them to me. Which I disagree with to a degree but I have a feeling that that is something we'll just have to disagree about. I've responded to his accusations and I'll let others decide what they think.

In the interest of sparking some discussion and letting people know where I stand, here are a few things I found suspicious so far:

Post 46 -- farside22 points a FOS at Akonas because of his self-immunity vote.
Post 55 -- Akonas claims that we need to make unfounded accusations and attacks farside22 for doing just that.
Post 56 -- ibaesha votes immunity for mcpaltp. Its a non-random vote and mcpaltp had only posted three times. One of which was a confirmation post.
Post 68 -- Akonas tries to create two pairs hasdgfas/farside22 and himself/Holy.
Post 92 -- Shanba argument against me. I've adressed this before. Seems a bit of stretch to me. Shanba admits its a bit of stretch. OMGUS could be a major source of suspicion however.
Post 96 -- farside22 only asks Qman and I who we think might be scum.

I would like to stress that these things made me suspicious when I first read them and they do not all carry equal weight. I am not saying that I think these people are scum, which is what I believe farside22 originally asked me, but simply things that raised eyebrows.

Of the list above, the one that has the biggest flag is Akonas' Post 68. Trying to create pairs like that unnerve me. It seems to me that it would be advantageous for scum link themselves up with townies. Its a strategy I've seen before and I wonder if this is a clumsy attempt to do just that.

But at this point I'm the most suspicious of Boggzie, Qman, QuickBen, ibaesha and Rigel. As I've said before, I doubt that we'll find all the scum among the five or six most active players. I have a hard time believing all the scum would be so active with so many silent townies. I don't see how that would benefit them. Therefore I'm convinced that at least one of those players is scum. The problem is, at this point, I just don't know who.

[farside22]

Once again Opie I stated after my comment that I should have said everyone needs something on each of the people here playing and see if we can figure anything out.
I have also some thoughts on those MIA or lurkers.

Boggzie

He seemed to panic when Holy asked her question about mcpaltp having the highest immunity.

Rishi wrote:
Immunity Count

*mcpaltp – 2 (Boggzie, ibaesha)

*Would receive immunity if polls opened today.

The question for now is, is mcpaltp really not that scummy to deserved the immunity? Still too early to tell though.

wait, wait, wait - That vote was random, unvote, because I've played with mcpaltp before and we had fun.
I don't like the implication this early that the vote was scummy.[/quote]

Holy didn't say anything about people voting against him as scummy. She was asking if he deserved immunity.

As for the other ones. Out of most of the lurkers QuickBen and ibaesha haven't really stated much of anything. At least with Rigel and Qman I felt I got something out of their post besides just noise.