Open 669 - Nightless Vengeful Mayhem [Game Over]

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Magna.

Nope. At least not good reads. Good pressure can be formed, and it can start a wagon easily. How the person reacts and the posts after are more important than the first 2-4 posts a person makes. Yes hindsight being 20/20 after flips early posts can be indicative of scum but D1 no I don't think you can identify scum from their early posts unless they are almost out right saying they're scum.

Now I have to decide whether you really believe this or not. If I fall on the side of Not you are probably scum.

[Revan]

Magma how much experience to you have with mafia?

[karnos]

Vote Count 1.1

Doomfeathers

(3/7)

-

MagnaofIllusion

, wgeurts, Hawk, Friend Computer

Hawk

(1/7)

- Revan,

wgeurts

wgeurts

(1/7)

- Doomfeathers

Friend Computer

(1/7)

- MagnaofIllusion

Revan

(0/7)

-

Hawk

(expired on 2017-01-27 08:45:01) until deadline.
With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

[wgeurts]

To Doomfeathers, I was making a joke; I knew I couldn't vote, so I did that.

And I was answering your question.

Vote: Doomfeathers

For being confusing.

How is being confusing a valid argument here?
Give me some reads and thoughts now unless you want to be voted.

[wgeurts]

Magna, care to explain what you dislike about my post? I'm leaning town on you right now. My reads list goes from most town on top to most scum at the bottom. As off now all reads are weak, and will likely change.

{wgeurts}
{magna, UD}
{Hawk}
{Doom, FC}

Hawk's explanation is feasible, although I may not agree with the way he approaches things it now makes sense somewhat. Going to have to see some action on his end before putting him as town though. FC's vote is dodgy, reinforced by the fact he is also newish. I would like some explanation first before making a final judgement though.

[wgeurts]

@Magna.

Nope. At least not good reads. Good pressure can be formed, and it can start a wagon easily. How the person reacts and the posts after are more important than the first 2-4 posts a person makes. Yes hindsight being 20/20 after flips early posts can be indicative of scum but D1 no I don't think you can identify scum from their early posts unless they are almost out right saying they're scum.

I disagree, I'm awful at it and prefer associative tells plus VCA, however I've seen some pull of very early scum reads that turned out correct on a frequent basis. I don't understand how but it's possible.

[wgeurts]

Magma how much experience to you have with mafia?

What are your thoughts on the game?

[Sesq]

Did nobody read their PM, votes aren't counted yet as we haven't officially started day 1.

So on that note.

VOTE: sesq

I legit don't know anyone in this game properly. Especially not your play. Anyone in the secret hydra aware of my play or who I am?

What secret hydra?

Anyway, since I think it's ""officially"" day 1 i'll reconfirm vote on VOTE: doomfeathers

[wgeurts]

Ultimate Despair.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Anyway, since I think it's ""officially"" day 1 i'll reconfirm vote on VOTE: doomfeathers

Why no reasoning behind this revote?

--

Magma how much experience to you have with mafia?

I’d wager aside from having and wgeurts (and discounting the hidden hydra since I have no idea who makes up the head) at least as much as all the rest of the playerlist put together. Definitely for MS. I have significant offsite and F2F experience as well.

Why do you ask?

--

Magna, care to explain what you dislike about my post?

39 at a gut level strikes me as counter to your previous statements regarding Doom. In 32 you specifically acknowledge that he might be making some comments that I pressed him on due to relative inexperience. Which I do agree with as a possibility.

Yet in 39 some of the points you seem to be using as a justification for voting him (I’m looking at A, B and C specifically) you are hitting right on things that are I think are reasonable to possibily come from Newb Town as well. So on some level I’m troubled by the fact that only when he’s voted you does you seem to really consider the Newb Scum possibilities. Also the line “Please reconsider and/or explain yourself” hits my gut as a nice way of saying “Back off or prepared to battle with my much more experienced self”.

My reads list goes from most town on top to most scum at the bottom. As off now all reads are weak, and will likely change.

That’s not my issue with the lists. My huge issue is the complete lack of labelling. Let’s examine the two lists –

{wgeurts}
{UD}
{Magna}
{Hawk}
{Doom}

{wgeurts}
{magna, UD}
{Hawk}
{Doom, FC}

Ostensiblly the first I would guess is an ordering of Town, Weak Town, Null, Weak Scum, Scum. But I certainly can’t be sure.

Then your second list shrinks down to four brackets. So did Null just disappear? Or was my initial ordering not what I drew.

Honestly these look like Ranger lists which I hate with a passion. Which is why I am trying to nail down your rating systems specifically now. I’ve encountered too many times where scum tries to suggest a Ranger list that doesn’t have an explained and labelled scale is being misread when movement on the list or brackets disappear and they can’t justify the change.

[wgeurts]

Magna, in 32 I was confused as to how you were reading Doom's post. Most of my play revolves around getting into people's heads and figuring out what they're after. I could see something to be said about his rules clarification, yet the added layer you added by contrasting it to his earlier post is something I cannot see and hence asked clarification for.

My ABC is me pointing out three things which show he's making no sense. My vote isn't based on them, I voted him mainly as I dislike the manner he decided to vote me. After I mentioned some theory involving my views on what the town's best options are in this setup he votes me and somewhat jabs at what I'd been explaining, combined with the fact he is newer I would say there's something to be said of a possibility of him disliking what I'm implying and him trying to discredit that. He's a newer player, more experienced players would know doing so is futile. It's weak, but that's how everything starts off and depending on how he reacts the read may be prone to change.

As for my lists, I indeed nicked them from ranger. Difference is I'm a strong supporter of town being as transparent as they can be without harming the town. If you ever want extra clarification on a read of mine: ask and if I haven't explained already (in which I'll show where) I'll do so. I can also add "light town" etc. next to the tiers if you wish, that's not too much of a hassle. I mostly started using them as a way to gather my reads (and they're easy to type out).

You're correct on your view of the first list, the second is town, weak town, null-town, weak scum.

[wgeurts]

Actually hawk was null-scum, meaning null but gun to head scum (so only a very slight lean).

[wgeurts]

In the first list that is^

[MagnaofIllusion]

As for my lists, I indeed nicked them from ranger. Difference is I'm a strong supporter of town being as transparent as they can be without harming the town. If you ever want extra clarification on a read of mine: ask and if I haven't explained already (in which I'll show where) I'll do so. I can also add "light town" etc. next to the tiers if you wish, that's not too much of a hassle. I mostly started using them as a way to gather my reads (and they're easy to type out).

Actually as you suggested putting the list like this -

Town - MojoJojo, BoosterGold
Weak Town - Cisco Ramone
Null - Jane Doe
Weak Scum - Raymond Reddington
Scum - Detective Bell

Would do wonders for me never bothering you again about clarification on your lists.

[Sesq]

Anyway, since I think it's ""officially"" day 1 i'll reconfirm vote on VOTE: doomfeathers

Why no reasoning behind this revote?

Same reasoning as my earlier vote, just redoing it because I wasn't sure if my earlier vote counted.

[Revan]

Magma how much experience to you have with mafia?

What are your thoughts on the game?

Woah, hold your horses. I need some time to analyze my brother.

[wgeurts]

Anyway, since I think it's ""officially"" day 1 i'll reconfirm vote on VOTE: doomfeathers

Why no reasoning behind this revote?

Same reasoning as my earlier vote, just redoing it because I wasn't sure if my earlier vote counted.

Sesq, have you read the game?

[mozamis]

jeez...a lot to catch up on...almost all of it probably town on town bollocks as always...
i had a brief skim ealrier, and hawk looked SOOOOOOOOO TOWN.
So that's one down.

[mozamis]

taking doomfeathers confusion about game mechanics at face value.
seems an unnecessary scum gambit. so he's provisional town.

[wgeurts]

jeez...a lot to catch up on...almost all of it probably town on town bollocks as always...
i had a brief skim ealrier, and hawk looked SOOOOOOOOO TOWN.
So that's one down.

How?

[wgeurts]

taking doomfeathers confusion about game mechanics at face value.
seems an unnecessary scum gambit. so he's provisional town.

This is also logically awful.

[Revan]

Magna ill get to your question sometime D1 i promise. but i have another question if you don't mind

-----------

its a 3v2 lylo. the game is fairly inactive. would you townread someone pushing for activity?

[doomfeathers]

I honestly don't feel like we are out of RVS... all of this content you guys think is here feels forced and easily could be fluff. Like I said Null feels all around. Plus I like engaging people rather than just googling it. Do you think Revan voted me out of RVS? I don't think so. If he did he better speak now. Ignore shit that doesn't partake to the game if it's one damn post if it bothers you that much.

Yes, we are out of RVS. We have been for a while now. Once someone votes someone else for a good reason rather than just at random, RVS ends. And I was not saying that you were playing poorly, but that your post had what I saw as likely scum motivation. Why should I ignore it?

Doom, figuring out scum's best play is what town is meant to do. Like chess, you should always be predicting what they're going to do. Considering what's town and scum are likely to do, and reading posts to see which motivation makes more sense, is what we call scum-hunting. It's very hard to catch scum if you don't spend time thinking about what scum do, they're not going to hand themselves over on a platter. Me posting on it means everyone can take it into consideration. It's also not so that I've only posted game theory, you're leaving part of my posts untouched.

Unlike chess, I see here a difference between best play and likely play; however, I can see how predicting scum's best play would be a valid strategy, though naming it so they can avoid it seems a little odd.

UNVOTE: wgeurts

Also, hell yes we should form a town bloc, that's literally what we should be aiming for. Right now though? Definitely not, and I've never said so. That happens later game, once reads are more established, people have flipped, and one or two scum shots have gone off. How is this suspicious? You can't just call things suspicious without explaining why.

Thank you for clarifying that we're waiting until later. I have problems with limitations on who I vote for without reasons I see as good.

A. That's a stretch as really nobody's going to be distracted by a side-discussion about someone's username. Thus no time is wasted. Scum know this if they're decent at least.

It could clog up the thread if done right. I read an article about that.

B. Why would scum do that so early on? Stalling and redirecting attention is best done mid-late day when the deadline draws near or a scum-partner is in danger. Neither of those conditions have been met yet.

Thank you for explaining this; I didn't know.

C. It is still RVS, notice how people don't have firm reads and are randomly voting?

"Without firm reads" is far different from "randomly". You are voting me for a reason, no?

VOTE: Hawk

[MagnaofIllusion]

Magna ill get to your question sometime D1 i promise. but i have another question if you don't mind

Actually looking at the question I do mind given it is hypothetical fluff. Why do you need to "sometime Day 1" to answer?

[doomfeathers]

Eh, never mind. On second ISO, he doesn't look so scummy. I still disagree with avoiding content and judgments early on, though.

UNVOTE: Hawk