Mini Normal 1854: Game Over

[Empking]

I didn't mean to have that Josh quote in. I thought it would have automatically un-q+'d when I changed the page.

[Nachomamma8]

I haven't actually read the game yet, but as it stands:

Town:
Aristophanes - Nacho's read
Nachomamma8 - Mason
Lil Uzi Vert - Mason

Slight town:
Gamma Emerald - Having's votes
xSoniaNevermindx - Nacho's read

Slight Scum:
TwoFace - Hasving's votes seem like the basic - dump a vote on a partner for distancing because you don't want to bus play

Scum:
Aj The Epic - Nacho's read
Joshz - Like big time, like hugely, like blindingly obvious. He scream scum. Maybe, that'll change once I read his posts but so far it screams 'invested in the game; trying to play to win; not actually engaged in scumhunting'

Vote:Joshz

If Empking is scum, there are two things that strongly stand out to me.

First of all, the entire reason that Empking is scumreading AJ the Epic (likeliest mislynch if town) is because "my read". If Empking was scum not with AJ, his highest priority would be driving through the AJ mislynch. If Empking was scum with AJ, his highest priority is getting cred for his partner's lynch and preparing to go the distance. This read accomplishes neither of those purposes; giving the read over to me allows him to vote AJ, sure, but no one's giving him cred when AJ is lynched and no one's being convinced by "I'm sheeping Nacho".

Second of all, I've alluded to this before, but Empking's attack plan is beyond utterly insane if he is scum here. The two reads Empking has pushed since he's came are Joshz and TwoFace; after the masons, these are the two most universally townread players in the game. I suppose it's possible that Empking as scum set out to manipulate just me for a day (not likely, that's a dumb as hell strategy for the reason you're all seeing before you now), but he's a savvy enough player as scum where he realizes that this path of attack isn't getting him anywhere. The only thing that makes sense from Empking as scum here is him attempting to suicide, which he'd have no reason to do regardless of who his partner is (partner gets better cred if he looks townier as he goes down), and the only person he could be attempting to save for a day here is AJ, which doesn't make sense because AJ really shouldn't make it to endgame at this point.

[Nachomamma8]

And as a addon to that last train of thought, notice how Empking has continued to raggedly pursue TwoFace and Joshz through every town and neighborhood despite it clearly being poison to his survival; contrast this with AJ's backing off the Eric/Joshz slot once everyone told him it was an absolutely garbage push to make. Town believe in what they're pushing, which is why Empking is holding onto these very inconvenient reads until the bitter, bitter end whereas AJ dropped his push the second it started to threaten his survival.

[Nachomamma8]

Read his posts. Haven't changed my mind. Although he was less invested than I thought; how has he not been called out on it from what I'd read before I though the active lurking was going to be more subtle? Plus, the fact that he's twice planned his night kills in the thread.

It actually did reduce the probability I have for him being scum. Since, surely I must have missed something that cleared him for him to get away like this.

Now, while I don't have the time to make this point the way I want to make it, I want you to look at some of Joshz's posts that could give Empking the impression he holds here:

ive only read 2 pages so far and i think io's scum rofl

VOTE: Gemerald
(Yes, I do this just to bug you)

I dislike the immediate demand for a partner claim. That is not good play and benefits scum.

Creeps, why are you not buying the claim?

Never do. Ever. I once doubted a proven jailor claim on TOS. I don't trust.

Lack of trust is as bad as too much trust. Caution is required for proper play, but this goes a bit far man! Link, town has to work together and form trust networks to win! Trusting nobody is arguably antitown.

Why the vote on Eric?

I play the same way. Guilty until proven innocent prevents a scum who manages to become lock town from winning.

ok full disclosure: i only skimmed
town {misa, luv}
slight town {twoface}
null {frank, hiraki, gamma, aristophanes, tvd, creeps}
slight scum {vedith}
scum {scumdearsaretasty, fitz}

sorry but io's page 1 posts are fucking awful and scumdearsaretasty's content has all been mediocre / hasnt changed my mind on it. fitz has been covered by twoface. vedith is null himself but i sr'd twiszted so its a push forward from that. hiraki is probably slightly more scum than the other nulls but potato potato hes active. creeps is closer to null but ive already sr'd him and led his mislynch once this week only for a JOAT flip, i dont intend to do it again. his play is pretty close to NAI. if you lynch him its policy because i doubt hes scum. misa/luv obv mason claims for NOW, but note i sr'd luv a bit before his claim so they arent inno yet. twoface makes good arguments against fitz + i like him defending eric whos town and it felt more genuine than hiraki.

VOTE: scumdeers

what is your plan if creeps flips town? its a complete waste of a lynch. he is nai lynchbait.

also im voting hiraki what??? i guess that was eric

I thought I posted regarding mathblade but apparently I didn't. Huh.

There's someone in the game called nacho mama?????

He wants an Io-slot lynch iirc

And yet he's the lone vote on Vedith?

i have a very, very strong scum read on twiszted, and vedith hasnt exactly been a super strong townie. i encourage you to read through twiszted's content itt, its awful.

We have under a day to reach majority and get a lynch. What makes you think that people are going to see the light on Vedith and suddenly vote him out if you're not going to put in the work to get it done? Who else would you vote as a compromise?

i already said id potentially vote hiraki out of the 3 current wagons. i would also most likely vote for fitz, scumdeers, and frank just for idling so much as attention is off of him, though i dont think id vote anyone else.

Post dinguses

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VOTE: fitz

But anyways I don't necessarily object to a hammer but I want hiraki to answer my questions first at the very least

Josh has a lot of posts. I think that Josh has been putting work into the game. The reason why I've liked Joshz's contributions is because of things that he brings up that adds to cases/observations that make me feel he's being genuine - early scumread on Twisz, a few points he's brought up on Vedith, a few points he's brought up on Deer - what I don't see in his ISO are big dense walls; he's more of a real-time interaction person in that his brightest moments have come from when he's sorting out the game with others and that's a hell of a lot harder to pick up on out of context (and it's hard to keep context when catching up at a blitz pace).

So while I don't agree with Empking's read here, I at least understand where it's coming from (contrast with the AJ Eric read with didn't have a shred of truth in it), and I don't think that the case needs to be expanded upon a whole whole lot; Empking as town isn't known to be one of the GREAT EXPLAINERS and I can understand forming an initial gut read and not being able to put a bunch of hard evidence behind it and then expanding on it and evolving the read later.

[Joshz]

My solve rn is aj and Empking so it doesn't really matter which is lynched first. However, I disagree with your logic. Empking's TwoFace case makes some ok points, I could pass it. However, not only is his case on me ENTIRELY that I'm active lurking, he is voting me instead of the actual case. His reads stayed the same pretty and post read and he is selectively replying and has been caught wrong multiple times. I think your scenario makes more sense with Empking voting TwoFace and me being his partner read and second lynch; not otherwise. I also don't think myself and TwoFace are good partners even If YOU think one of us are scum, Twoface's partner would be one of the people calling him lock town.

Nacho, it is not impossible that i'd lynch aj first. I just think that if either aj or Empking are town I'd rather have aj alive since he can admit when he's wrong.

[Nachomamma8]

Gamma got Having lynched. Nothing forced him to. He chose to do so. It's not impossible for it to be a last-minute hard bus, but I highly doubt that. Plus he's not trying to get cred from it, and if it were a scum-tactic that would have been priority #1.

Next, Empking's interactions with Gamma don't make any sense whatsoever for scum partner or Empking!scum Gamma!town. If Gamma is town to Empking's scum, then it doesn't make sense to close off a mislynch option as hard as he did here; all reasonable paths to victory have Empking voting mislynching Gamma to a win and that gets considerably more difficult if he has to walk back on words such as "Gamma got Having lynched" to get there. If Gamma is scum, then tying himself that hard to Gamma when he has AJ as the wide open mislynch option doesn't make sense; some people might go "scum would never buddy that hard", sure, but usually what happens is at the end of the day paranoia eats you alive. Empking is aware of this.

[Nachomamma8]

My solve rn is aj and Empking so it doesn't really matter which is lynched first. However, I disagree with your logic. Empking's TwoFace case makes some ok points, I could pass it. However, not only is his case on me ENTIRELY that I'm active lurking, he is voting me instead of the actual case. His reads stayed the same pretty and post read and he is selectively replying and has been caught wrong multiple times. I think your scenario makes more sense with Empking voting TwoFace and me being his partner read and second lynch; not otherwise. I also don't think myself and TwoFace are good partners even If YOU think one of us are scum, Twoface's partner would be one of the people calling him lock town.

Nacho, it is not impossible that i'd lynch aj first. I just think that if either aj or Empking are town I'd rather have aj alive since he can admit when he's wrong.

I don't think tha

[Nachomamma8]

My solve rn is aj and Empking so it doesn't really matter which is lynched first. However, I disagree with your logic. Empking's TwoFace case makes some ok points, I could pass it. However, not only is his case on me ENTIRELY that I'm active lurking, he is voting me instead of the actual case. His reads stayed the same pretty and post read and he is selectively replying and has been caught wrong multiple times. I think your scenario makes more sense with Empking voting TwoFace and me being his partner read and second lynch; not otherwise. I also don't think myself and TwoFace are good partners even If YOU think one of us are scum, Twoface's partner would be one of the people calling him lock town.

Nacho, it is not impossible that i'd lynch aj first. I just think that if either aj or Empking are town I'd rather have aj alive since he can admit when he's wrong.

Empking is putting a hell of a lot more into the game than AJ was right off the bat; AJ's been here for 13 more days and yet only has 14 more posts than him. I don't think that his vote on you is great, but having a stronger case on Two and voting you isn't a scumtell; it's not like you're getting mislynched and TwoFace isn't and it doesn't make sense for scum to avoid voting the stronger case for any particular reason. He's been caught wrong multiple times, fine; I think everyone's been wrong about things plenty.

Please just give me the AJ lynch today. Give Empking a little more time to post and catch up since he's generating content at a fantastic rate so far, and let me have this one last lynch before I die.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Nacho, who do you think is AJ's partner? I want to lynch there.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho: One question that I think is important to answer before you die. Since I know Luv is so convincved that I am scum from the super-power supposition that he won't read this post I can feel free acknowledging that I know nobody has bother reading the part of the thread that they are calling me a liar over. If they had they would pointed out that you voted Having shortly after you got Two to link his case. Propter hoc, and all. Were you convinced to vote Having by Two's case?

And as a general point. People keep saying that 'everyone' was convinced by Two. Is anyone happy to claim that they were simply sheeping Two with their vote in particular?

I initially voted Having because of Two's suspicion there (before I read the game); I began the push in earnest for my own reasons once I started reading.

I don't think that Two overplaying his role in the Fitz lynch is a scumtell; I think that it's something people do often when they are excited they caught scum.

Would you mind voting AJ for me? I already had Hiraki martyr yesterday, time is dribbling to nothing, and I would really, really love to lynch scum today.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho, who do you think is AJ's partner? I want to lynch there.

Gamma, who I will also lynch instead of Empking.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

So how about we vote Gamma today? That slot has been scum for me by PoE for a while now.

[Nachomamma8]

I don't feel as strongly a sr here as I do Gamma/Aj
I'm not against this lynch it's just not my pref'd choice I'm not gonna kick and scream over it though.

You don't have to kick and scream; let me take care of that.
Just please vote one of AJ/Gamma instead. I prefer AJ, but if we can swing a Gamma lynch then that's A-OK with me. I just want to give Empking one more day.

[Joshz]

If you want to talk about work off the bat sonia won't even read the thread. :/

Nacho, give the plan for when you die. Who do we lynch in a scum flip from aj (gamma?) AND who in a town flip? We should also get another reads post from you detailing how confident out are in every player being dead. Everyone seems to respect your play; it's important for that to be here.

I will lynch aj for you if you're 100% sure. I think it's a mistake, but I will. This is if TwoFace and luv agree.

[Aj The Epic]

Other than the fact that you're tunneling the shit out of the game right now,

Alright nacho, if I'm scum with gamma, why is gamma the only person I'm currently pushing.

[Joshz]

TwoFace
Empking
Lil Uzi Vert
xSoniaNevermindx
Aj The Epic
Gamma Emerald
Joshz
Aristophanes
Nachomamma8

Living ppl, aka 9. Nacho night kill, lynch, 7. Luv night kill, lynch, 5. Lylo at this point if we haven't caught scum. Twoface/josh night kill, lynch, 3. Lylo. Basically we can lynch at least 3 and very likely 4 people. There are only 5 potential scum (6 if you're Empking and town). We have a lot of lynching left, and we've basically won this game if we accept your aristo read. So, it's not hard to make a plan going forward, because kills are lined up.

[Nachomamma8]

If you want to talk about work off the bat sonia won't even read the thread. :/

Nacho, give the plan for when you die. Who do we lynch in a scum flip from aj (gamma?) AND who in a town flip? We should also get another reads post from you detailing how confident out are in every player being dead. Everyone seems to respect your play; it's important for that to be here.

I will lynch aj for you if you're 100% sure. I think it's a mistake, but I will. This is if TwoFace and luv agree.

Can't be 100% sure in a game of Mafia; I feel pretty confident that AJ is scum but, again, it's possible that I'm wrong.

All of the remaining energy I have left is going to be sorting the group outside of Empking/Gamma/AJ; the biggest question mark outside of that group is Sonia as I feel pretty damn confident in TwoFace/you/Aristo outside of the mason group but am glad that Empking is digging into TwoFace to help bring him back to the surface.

[Nachomamma8]

Other than the fact that you're tunneling the shit out of the game right now,

Alright nacho, if I'm scum with gamma, why is gamma the only person I'm currently pushing.

Consolidating towncred. It wasn't a vital move when he was being townread, but when he became a universal scumread it became decently important for you to make that distance so one of you would have a better shot of going it alone.

[Aj The Epic]

I mean I'm not going to be terribly fickle about this but:

Yesterday then, when my lynch and Hiraki's were both on the line, why wouldn't i have adapted when I got into the game to push Hiraki? If I had a scummate I could've avoided reading joshz on only josh's play and have a basic rundown before I got heavily into posting. Your argument about my 'survivalist notion' with Josh isn't really true since I pushed it for multiple days until I really got into re-reading the thread.

My main issue is you obviously aren't going to reconsider so why fucking bother.

[TwoFace]

I will lynch aj for you if you're 100% sure. I think it's a mistake, but I will. This is if TwoFace and luv agree.

Unfortunately I don't think I can go along with that.

[xSoniaNevermindx]

If you want to talk about work off the bat sonia won't even read the thread. :/

Nacho, give the plan for when you die. Who do we lynch in a scum flip from aj (gamma?) AND who in a town flip? We should also get another reads post from you detailing how confident out are in every player being dead. Everyone seems to respect your play; it's important for that to be here.

I will lynch aj for you if you're 100% sure. I think it's a mistake, but I will. This is if TwoFace and luv agree.

You're right I haven't read a lot of day 1 at all but I'd like to think I am at least making up for my laziness in helping the best I can here I'd like to think I've helped a lot in that regard it's what I'm trying to do to make up for it
If we can get an Aj/Gamma lynch perfect I'm all for it
VOTE: Gamma
I pref this will swing to Aj if needed

[Lil Uzi Vert]

VOTE: Gamma

[Joshz]

i dont want to lynch gamma over aj + empking, i want to lynch in that pairing. :/

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma got Having lynched. Nothing forced him to. He chose to do so. It's not impossible for it to be a last-minute hard bus, but I highly doubt that. Plus he's not trying to get cred from it, and if it were a scum-tactic that would have been priority #1.

Next, Empking's interactions with Gamma don't make any sense whatsoever for scum partner or Empking!scum Gamma!town. If Gamma is town to Empking's scum, then it doesn't make sense to close off a mislynch option as hard as he did here; all reasonable paths to victory have Empking voting mislynching Gamma to a win and that gets considerably more difficult if he has to walk back on words such as "Gamma got Having lynched" to get there. If Gamma is scum, then tying himself that hard to Gamma when he has AJ as the wide open mislynch option doesn't make sense; some people might go "scum would never buddy that hard", sure, but usually what happens is at the end of the day paranoia eats you alive. Empking is aware of this.

Note that plenty are SRing me. Scum don't need to be on a ML for it to happen.

[Gamma Emerald]

I believe this as a likely partner for Emp and if Emp isn't happening then I'll vote this.
VOTE: Aj the Epic