Mini #534 - Vegetable Mafia (Game Over!)

[Northjayhawk]

Umm, how is a self bandwagon any less good than one the vote-ee is not on?

When you vote for yourself and ask others to vote for you, we learn very little about you or the people voting for you, other than you are a strange goofball. Maybe we might learn about people voting for you if they go nuts and quickly put you at L-2 or something, but compared to simple random-voting to test other people's reactions, a self-bandwagon is completely useless and probably counterproductive for the town.

[Northjayhawk]

With that, I'll probably be away at least a day or maybe two for some stupid christmas preparation obligations, will check back in later this week.

[ryan]

destructor is onto something
soupfly is clearly scum

unvote, vote: soupfly

I'd still like an explanation from you on why you said this (when it's not true) and voted this way? Since we're starting to roll now

Unvote

[Oman]

Ryan...can you post your role pm?

[ryan]

Ryan...can you post your role pm?

Was that at all worth a post?

[Oman]

Yus.


Please?

Nothing personal.

[Phate]

When you vote for yourself and ask others to vote for you, we learn very little about you or the people voting for you, other than you are a strange goofball. Maybe we might learn about people voting for you if they go nuts and quickly put you at L-2 or something, but compared to simple random-voting to test other people's reactions, a self-bandwagon is completely useless and probably counterproductive for the town.

Why? What information does bandwagoning glean? Why is this information nullified if the bandwagon is started by the person being bandwagoned? Use your head, don't just make assertions.

[Oman]

NORTHJAYHAWK NEEDS A BANDWAGON, HE WANT ONE!

[ryan]

NORTHJAYHAWK NEEDS A BANDWAGON, HE WANT ONE!

Are you intentionally trying to act like a jester?

[destructor]

NORTHJAYHAWK NEEDS A BANDWAGON

QFT

[ryan]

NORTHJAYHAWK NEEDS A BANDWAGON

QFT

How is a bandwagon going to get us information. Didn't he just post that he'd be gone for a couple of days? That doesn't give the guy much of a chance to defend himself. Why are you hot to bandwagon somebody that is going to be away? Looking for an easy lynch scum?

[Phate]

Nope, we're looking for someone who's trying to cast suspicion on perfectly normal randomvote stage behaviouir.

Unvote; Vote: ryan

.

[Phate]

Getting info from the person being bandwagoned is secondary to (IM) watching the reactions of other players.

[ryan]

So you're saying bandwagon somebody that can't be here to defend themselves? That makes ZERO sense to me Phate. I am a believer that bandwagons on people get them talking and the more they talk the easier it is for them to slip up and give us information

[Phate]

No, I'm not telling you to bandwagon anyone. There's a ~75% chance (depending on the setup) that any given person we're wagoning is town, and theme setups often are heavier on the roles, so it's at least as likely that we'll force a town powerrole to claim than catch a scum with any given wagon. No, the way to work with wagons is to watch those on them and those off them.

[ryan]

Sorry Phate, I disagree with you. I find that scum will out themselves alot quicker than town power roles when it comes to wagons. I will agree that newbies tend to out themselves alot faster than vets. I still don't understand your unvote and switch to me, care to explain?

[Phate]

We'll agree to disagree, then.

Please clarify your reference to the difference between newbies and vets; as nearly as I can tell, it was more or less axiomatical, completely meaningless, responded to nothing, and added nothing to the discussion.

I voted you because I believe the randomwagon stage is a perfectly normal and productive part of Mafia as it is played on MS, and I find interfering without a good reason to be marginally anti-town.

[ryan]

Newbies (that I've played with on this site) panic when under pressure and tend to out their roles early under bandwagons. Vets on the otherhand have no problem with pressure when wagons are presented on them and are alot more difficult to get to slip up. I don't know why that had nothing to do with anything as it's a point I was making about bandwagons and how they are used.

[Y]

So you're saying bandwagon somebody that can't be here to defend themselves? That makes ZERO sense to me Phate. I am a believer that bandwagons on people get them talking and the more they talk the easier it is for them to slip up and give us information

While this is true, watching people as they hop on and off bandwagons gives you information too. Actually, the less a player talks, the harder for people to get on the bandwagon with no reason, so scum, which tend to join bandwagons, are more likely to mess up.

[ryan]

Y: Actually that's why I think a bandwagon on an already shown silent player (who said they'd be gone) is rather useless. I'd rather bandwagon somebody active. I do see your point as scum could pick this chance to hop on the bandwagon knowing that the person can't defend themselves.

[Y]

Y: Actually that's why I think a bandwagon on an already shown silent player (who said they'd be gone) is rather useless. I'd rather bandwagon somebody active.

I do see your point as scum could pick this chance to hop on the bandwagon knowing that the person can't defend themselves.

Exactly. If the reason is something like "He's lurking", then you know it's some one who's just trying to lynch.

[thinktank]

I have to agree with the bandwagon tactic. It works well. Its not necessarily the way to out newbies or vets, but it does work. How do you expect to get any information on anybody in this game if theres no pressure? especially on a day one when no one has been cleared either through a power role or by means of death, so its up to the players to find out for themselves and imo its the most effective method.

Oman: whats with al the really random acts? asking people to post role pms..

FoS:Oman

Right now your not helping town at all. you 're taking away from town.

[Phate]

Asking to post their role PM was pretty much a slap in the face. If someone posts their role PM, they're modkilled.

[Oman]

Didn't he just post that he'd be gone for a couple of days?

Whoops, i forgot all about that.

Unvote Vote ryan

BANDWAGON ON RYAN UNTIL NORTHJAYHAWK GETS BACK!

[Crub]

Cool I hope this makes me the opportunistic 3rd vote?

vote:ryan