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Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 5:15 am
by Nahdia
Regardless of balance concerns, everyone played their individual games very well. Enjoyed watching/doing a tiny bit of backup modding.
Io wrote: In post 1845, mhsmith0 wrote:I'm pretty sure the thing VW did to get modkilled was the avatar bit btw.
@titus: gj to fight through it, you played well in a tough spot. I think you and trans should have shot me though, since I'd made it clear I was protecting jae and you'd role copped me doc (unless trans was bsing there).
Wait what did he do with his avatar? I was away when he claimed.
He set his avatar on site as a soft for Universal Backup (if you google image Universal Backup, his avi shows up a few lines down).
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 5:15 am
by Transcend
google image search "backup", his avatar is there somewhere
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 5:44 am
by Titus
In post 1845, mhsmith0 wrote:I'm pretty sure the thing VW did to get modkilled was the avatar bit btw.
@titus: gj to fight through it, you played well in a tough spot. I think you and trans should have shot me though, since I'd made it clear I was protecting jae and you'd role copped me doc (unless trans was bsing there).
TBH, I went with Transcend assuming the heal would be someone else. I probably misunderstood that as I did change the kill there.
The one kill there did not change the number of lynches and gave us a fighting narrative.
The fact Transcend made this close is a testament to his skill and sportsmanship.
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 5:48 am
by Transcend
that means a lot coming from you
i really appreciate it
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 5:54 am
by Nahdia
Making the kill on Jae actually probably gave mafia more of a fighting chance. If they killed mhsmith0, Jae would then out the guilty on Titus and she'd have a much slimmer path to escape from that.
Either way though, with the backup Gunsmith, mafia was in a lot of trouble today. The only way to come into the final day with a good chance was killing VWXYZ, and that wasn't something they considered for obvious reasons.
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 5:55 am
by Nahdia
Or I guess Transcend making the kill would have worked too, actually.
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 5:55 am
by Transcend
we considered v n1 but it wasn't even because we pr read him. i don't even remember the reasons.
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 6:13 am
by Titus
In post 1855, Nahdia wrote:Or I guess Transcend making the kill would have worked too, actually.
If we 100% knew JaeReed would track me, it would be optimal.
Transcend had the better towncred and was needed longer. My job was to set him up, and be expendable.
If it wasn't for the backup, I think he pulls it out even if I lose.
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 6:18 am
by Titus
You're welcome. My biggest tip for you is to slow down and step back. Even in that scenario, we had a long as fuck shot of winning if we turned the game into a 2 v 2. There's always an argument. It may not likely work but make them and you'll learn how to read people better as scum. Sometimes, you even win.
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 7:42 am
by Gamma Emerald
The hell happened here
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 7:43 am
by Gamma Emerald
Also I remember a comment about BG/Doc
Saying BG is more powerful than Doc is wrong. Both have their uses. Doc can buy lynches but are prone to no-kill WIFOM. BGs can be used to confirm one of the BG's townreads.
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 7:45 am
by mhsmith0
Bgs are virtually never better than docs. Anyone who actually thinks bg > doc in all but EXTREMELY rare situations simply has no idea what they're talking about.
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 7:47 am
by Gamma Emerald
Well tell that to cfj then because he doesn't get it.
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 7:47 am
by Transcend
I think i would've been lynched over V if he wasn't a back up
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 7:52 am
by mhsmith0
I did
he still doesn't get it
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 7:57 am
by Gamma Emerald
Like, he and House had a whole fight about this thing in MD.
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 7:58 am
by mhsmith0
Anyway, this game was fun. Possibly a touch town sided, but town PRs were generally pretty weak, and scum had a good amount of investigative power, so I don't think that it was especially town sided. Town PRs generally made very good use of abilities, and scum didn't do a good job with night shots. and MS meta is that if both those things happen, town will win.
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 7:59 am
by Transcend
Scum only got caught by the prs
Not during the day
Zzz
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 8:08 am
by mhsmith0
Yeah Jae played tracker very well. Some luck/swing in that, more than sidedness I htink.
FWIW I think town would have been pretty salty if the doc hit scum without crumbing n1 and cost town a mislynch with very little useful power left over, and/or if scum role copped tracker n1 and got an easy N2 shot there. There were definitely ways for town to get screwed here I htink.
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 8:10 am
by Transcend
Town might have lost without losing any scum if it weren't for the damn prs.
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 8:13 am
by mhsmith0
In post 1869, Transcend wrote:Town might have lost without losing any scum if it weren't for the damn prs.
obligatory
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 8:31 am
by mhsmith0
An interesting note from public balance discussion:
In post 0, Hoopla wrote:I see a lot of people making comments about the balance of a game after its finished, usually with the result dictating whether or not it was fair for either side, but you can't judge one game without looking at the whole picture. And the whole picture says we're giving mafia too much power, and town not enough. Collectively our instincts for what is balanced in a 13 player game is still wrong.
Personally, I think power distribution shouldn't deviate too far from this:
3 Goons
-
3 Strong Powers
OR
4 Middling to Strong Powers
2 Goons, 1 Mafia PR
-
4 Strong Powers
OR
5 Middling to Strong Powers
1 Goon, 2 Mafia PR's
-
5 Middling to Strong Powers
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 9:03 am
by VWXYZ
rip me 2016
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 9:04 am
by CloudKicker
Every scum got checked this game when i was tred with trans, seriously we got fucked pretty hard.
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 9:05 am
by CloudKicker
I had the most fun when i claimed doc :3 you guys actually bought my claim <3 hihihi