Mini Normal 1843 - Endgame

[TwoFace]

You actually have better odds of not being rolled now that you've already came up once.

You actually have better odds of not being rolled now that you've already came up once.

I'm not math expert. Certainly no statistic expert but pretty sure he has the same % chance his number comes up as anyone else does.

[TwoFace]

No idea why that posted twice

[CloudKicker]

Ay people, now that this is started here what i made for you guys

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Since i never played on mafiascum but have experience, i wanted to let people know my background etc. Soooo i thought about making a disclaimer of sorts so here it goes

This is my first mafia game ever on any website, i havent even read games either, i literally just know the concept of forum mafia and how lynches/night actions are done. But, i have a lot of experience in em (epicmafia) and im great at mechanics.
->It implies my scumhunting skills are based off of real time gameplay, not forum so i will have to adjust there
-> I dont know how stuff like lying/AtE’ing or trolling is alignement read on this site etc, so my first few games i might play soft

Here a disclaimer on my style:
-Be aware that i lie, i troll, i bait people all the time into giving me reactions so i can read them and i can also be abrasive at time.
-I dont believe in long post like this one, this is an expection.
-I might not explain all my reads mostly because i am lazy and people just ends up disagreeing with me even tho the flip is according to my reads. Literraly no one agrees with you at all in this game
-I believe that nothing is inherently alignement indicative —> that means that any behaviors can be used as both alignement as long as its done for your win condition.
-I have seen that you guys like to random votes at the start of the game, i wont do and believe this is pointless for some reasons:
1. I dont want people to retrospectively justifiy themselves that their vote was just random
2. I dont believe you can get any real reaction since everyone knows its pure random
3. It doesnt even gives tells about voting patterns
4. If you become slightly inactive then your can get someone blitzed with ur vote (?) not sure about this one since the day phases are PRETTY DARN LONG.

That means that if i vote, i somewhat intend to play for my win condition by voting you, by getting reads or to lynch you. Its not random.
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Now into the game, right off the bat

Hey everyone, let's have a good game!

Two important observations from recent games:

1. Even though I have some amount of mercy in me, I am a firm believer in Lynch All Liars. I therefore request all town players not to try stupid gambits like fakeclaiming, as those actions are highly likely to significantly hamper my ability to find scum.
   
   
2. I do not believe in a Random Voting Stage. I do believe in the principle of using votes to get discussion started, and I acknowledge that early in the game, there isn't much information to go on, but I firmly believe that voting someone over a (very) weak scumtell is better then voting someone completely randomly.

Vote: Hoopla

By using dice tags to determine who you vote, you prove (instead of merely claim) that your vote was made without any intent whatsoever. As such, your posts #5 and #6 are specifically designed not to give town any additional information. Because town needs information on the most important question of the game (who is scum), whereas scum is fully informed on that matter, your posts do not benefit town as much as they should. Why are you intentionally playing in a way that is more beneficial to scum then to town?

I disagree with 1, already we probably will have a hard time working together.
-> He says he have mercy, maybe because he needs a post to quite in retrospect so he can meta-justify himself, not auto lynching everyone lying ? As mafia who wouldnt want to lynch another mafia member who lied ?

2. Completly agree with, good

I didnt like your last 2 lines.
a)
-> You talk and insist a lot about scum pov, is it because you want to be townread because of it or because you are scum and have the scum pov pretty active in mind ?

'' Because town needs information on the most important question of the game (who is scum), whereas scum is fully informed on that matter, your posts do not benefit town as much as they should.''

Couldve just been

''your posts do not benefit town as much as they should''

Also the use of should, implying you believe he has to play for town win con.

b) ''Why are you intentionally playing in a way that is more beneficial to scum then to town?''
You acknowledged that people do use the random votes even tho you dont personally like it, why do you even fos someone for doing it then ? Just because you disagree with it doesnt mean its scummy.

I dont even know how to formally vote yet, ill check it out but let just say that i fos Michel

[Hoopla]

Don't let that withhold you from explaining why you used them in the first place.

I owed the universe a favour.

ANYWAY

VOTE: goodmorning

...and not because the dice told me to!

[Raskolnikov]

Hoopla are you always this bubbly?

[Sotty7]

First page discussion about dice voting
Second page post about not random voting

Only thing missing is a shameless bandwagon discussion

vote: goodmorning

[CloudKicker]

Mfw everyones literally ignoring me when i put effort ;-;

[Raskolnikov]

Disclaimer, I'm on a loss streak and I'm going to be changing my style here a bit.

[Raskolnikov]

VOTE: maria

[TwoFace]

hmm, do I vote cloudkicker?

sweet I got heads

vote: cloudkicker

[VictorDeAngelo]

VOTE: I am innocent

Too eager too appear innocent methinks.

[Raskolnikov]

I actually like what GM said about BBT unless it's a super catered pocketing attempt. Also him saying the game was annoying I think mirrors how I felt about people arguing over the dice, although that's an assumption.

I'm wondering what the likelihood is micheal would issue that PSA #1 as scum, I think very low. The only issue is the chance he thought of it from pre-game and planned to say it regardless of role pm, instead of just now (makes sense given the circumstances).

No scumleads yet though.

[Jaack]

Hello people.

VOTE: BlackVoid

Post 16 seems to take for granted that Hoopla is town. Seems like a good enough start.

[CloudKicker]

I actually like what GM said about BBT unless it's a super catered pocketing attempt. Also him saying the game was annoying I think mirrors how I felt about people arguing over the dice, although that's an assumption.

I'm wondering what the likelihood is micheal would issue that PSA #1 as scum, I think very low. The only issue is the chance he thought of it from pre-game and planned to say it regardless of role pm, instead of just now (makes sense given the circumstances).

No scumleads yet though.

I was wondering what PSA means in the context

[MariaR]

1. Even though I have some amount of mercy in me, I am a firm believer in Lynch All Liars. I therefore request all town players not to try stupid gambits like fakeclaiming, as those actions are highly likely to significantly hamper my ability to find scum.

Here we go again

[MariaR]

Wait rask is in this game and Cloud YAY

*tackle hugs* (Cloud I'm Sonia I don't think you know me on this alt)

[CloudKicker]

Ohhh Sonia i didnt know youre right, hi girl . Im happy at least i know someone on the table. Sonia feel free to help me out about the difference in scumhunting in forum maf vs em. Like if i out a read on someone and im completly off based off forum scumhunt meta then just tell me, i am here to learn too <3

[MariaR]

Already got him in my pocket this is going great.

[TwoFace]

Ohhh Sonia i didnt know youre right, hi girl . Im happy at least i know someone on the table. Sonia feel free to help me out about the difference in scumhunting in forum maf vs em. Like if i out a read on someone and im completly off based off forum scumhunt meta then just tell me, i am here to learn too <3

Why didn't you sign up for a newbie game?

[MichelSableheart]

Here we go again

My thought exactly when I saw Cloud's post. I don't get along at all with EM's playstyle. At least this time I post a warning before it leads to a direct clash.

It is my belief that one of the tasks of each protown player should be to play as obvtown as possible. That way, mafia can't get away with actions that are obviously beneficial for them, and are forced to take actions that risk them outing themselves. Whereas if town is bullshitting "in order to draw reactions", mafia has a lot more room to manoeuvre.

-> You talk and insist a lot about scum pov, is it because you want to be townread because of it or because you are scum and have the scum pov pretty active in mind ?

It's because I want to discover who is scum based on the actions taken in this thread. The only way to do that, is to look at the actions players take, and see why they would take them from a town POV, and why they would take them from a scum POV, and determine which is more likely.

'' Because town needs information on the most important question of the game (who is scum), whereas scum is fully informed on that matter, your posts do not benefit town as much as they should.''

Couldve just been

''your posts do not benefit town as much as they should''

I wanted to make the assumption explicit, as I wasn't in the mood to answer the question "Why?".

You acknowledged that people do use the random votes even tho you dont personally like it, why do you even fos someone for doing it then ? Just because you disagree with it doesnt mean its scummy.

No, I acknowledge the existence of something called the Random Voting Stage. That name is a bit of a misnomer, though. It should actually be called Arbitrary Voting Stage. An arbitrary vote is a vote that may or may not have a reason behind it, and that therefore can be analysed. Arbitrary votes aren't great for starting discussion, but they can work. IAmInnocent and goodmorning placed arbitrary votes.

A random vote, on the other hand, does not have a reason behind its target at all. It is verifiable for everyone that it was placed on a random player. Knowing that there isn't a reasoning, they are less likely to start discussion. Hoopla used dice tags, and then voted based on her result. That's a random vote, and intrinsically anti-town.

By your theory, not voting at all is just as bad. Any reason you didn't comment on my and TwoFace's lack of vote?

Someone who posts strong comments, but doesn't vote, does far more to get discussion started then someone who arbitrarily votes, without commenting at all. You two at least posted comments that others could react to. The only thing people could react to in Hoopla's post was the fact that there was nothing to react to.

[CloudKicker]

It is my belief that one of the tasks of each protown player should be to play as obvtown as possible. That way, mafia can't get away with actions that are obviously beneficial for them, and are forced to take actions that risk them outing themselves. Whereas if town is bullshitting "in order to draw reactions", mafia has a lot more room to manoeuvre.

I liked that part. My playstyle is mostly to do whatever it takes to get correct reads then towntell my way out of any lynches by lynching mafia and clearing myself. Also overall your tone is pretty neutral and emotionally detached, i dont know how people reads tone on forum sooo well see.

[Sotty7]

I'm curious Cloud, how do you kick start games on epicmafia without random voting?

RVS has been here for as long as I have been on this site, or at least as long as I remember. It's changed and migrated over the years, but it is pretty much always fruitful in starting the game from nothing, especially since day starts became more common. It's not perfect but the reason it is still here is because there hasn't really been anything to replace it.

I mean right now we have you and Michel debating playing style over anything that has really happened in the game yet. Strongly held play ideals won't change from a scum to town role, but perhaps how someone enters the game in "RVS" will.

[goodmorning]

goodmorning's fear of the dice is strange. Don't be afraid of what the universe has planned for you.

No, that was one of the entertaining bits.

@Cloud: People don't usually get quicklynched here.

First page discussion about dice voting
Second page post about not random voting

Only thing missing is a shameless bandwagon discussion

vote: goodmorning

OH NO

A SUDDEN BANDWAGON

LET ME CRINGE AND AWKWARDLY OMGUS SOMEBODY ON IT

OR SOMETHING

Is that what you were looking for?

Mfw everyones literally ignoring me when i put effort ;-;

I mean, mostly you just summed up your playstyle and were too lazy to click some links? (I was also too lazy to click some links so.)

I actually like what GM said about BBT unless it's a super catered pocketing attempt.

I mean, Toffee might still be mad at me from the time I spent a whole scumgame trolling him? So idk if I even could.

Post 16 seems to take for granted that Hoopla is town. Seems like a good enough start.

I looked at that post. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Vote: Victor

[Sotty7]

Is that what you were looking for?

Exactly.

[Hoopla]

I'm wondering what the likelihood is micheal would issue that PSA #1 as scum, I think very low. The only issue is the chance he thought of it from pre-game and planned to say it regardless of role pm, instead of just now (makes sense given the circumstances).

In Michel's only game (playing from the start) in the last few years onsite, he drew scum and didn't subject the town to a PSA. He tends to ask a lot of questions early in the game, regardless of alignment, but in non-newbie games the PSA-style declaration has only ever come as town (like here). In his slew of newbie games, pretty much every time he'd talk about how players should be acting and what to do regardless of alignment -- but I attribute that more to teaching newbies than anything, and on the whole his decision to go the extra step here this game with his lecturing is a town-tell for him.