In fact, why aren't you voting me already.In post 994, TwoFace wrote:If victor gets to l-1 I'll hammer. If he's town he doesn't read well and is a liability. If he's scum well I can actually see a sotty/hoopla/victor team and yes I'm a little crazy
No way you didn't see this on the previous page.In post 950, mhsmith0 wrote:
What happened to the all three scum on your wagon since I'm scum? Or have you realized that's not going to fly tomorrow with my townflip?In post 965, VictorDeAngelo wrote:Assuming I’m right about GreyICE being scum it’s likely all three scum are on my wagon at this point. I think gm is one because she has been scum for a long time. Not sure on the other. I was wondering about Rask until 963 but now I kind think he is town. I think TwoFace is depressingly town because he hasn’t jumped on which would have been the sensible thing to do if he was aligned with GreyICE (in the unlikely event Grey is town though TwoFace is more than likely scum). So it would probably be one of Jaack or Maria. Grey's reluctance to push the Jaack wagon despite the fact he was scumreading him suggests that it's likely to him.
I'm not allowed to reevaluate? TwoFace making it clear he's only prepared to vote me if I get to L-1 is made me rethink.In post 1001, GreyICE wrote:Okay, back, starting my thoughts. Buuuut since this is sticking out at me
Hey Victor:
What happened to the all three scum on your wagon since I'm scum? Or have you realized that's not going to fly tomorrow with my townflip?In post 965, VictorDeAngelo wrote:Assuming I’m right about GreyICE being scum it’s likely all three scum are on my wagon at this point. I think gm is one because she has been scum for a long time. Not sure on the other. I was wondering about Rask until 963 but now I kind think he is town. I think TwoFace is depressingly town because he hasn’t jumped on which would have been the sensible thing to do if he was aligned with GreyICE (in the unlikely event Grey is town though TwoFace is more than likely scum). So it would probably be one of Jaack or Maria. Grey's reluctance to push the Jaack wagon despite the fact he was scumreading him suggests that it's likely to him.
In post 149, BlackVoid wrote:Okay but just saying that it's his "town-meta" doesn't help me gauge his alignment or yours. Can you explain in a few sentences what his town-meta is like?
Maybe he's got me all fooled. Doubt it. I do not see a reason to vote for him.In post 158, BlackVoid wrote:VOTE: BlueBloodedToffee
Feel better with my vote here. I think he's more likely to be scum than Rask for the reasons I gave earlier.
I get the logic there but I think it depends on the context. I can see scum jumping on an early partner-wagon to let it fall apart through paranoia. I can also see scum resisting early an town wagon for the opposite reason.In post 151, Hoopla wrote:It's not so much process-of-elimination. Just an observation from my experience that early large wagons often tend to be town.
What do you think about the fact that the Rask-wagon dismantled so easily? Also, do you have a read on BBT?
100% directed at town-me.In post 692, Hoopla wrote:Grey, you should start scumreading yourself and Jack. I think it might change BlackVoid's mind.
The "Good vote!" but not voting with a person thing is super hyper scum buddying. Soooooo... why might she be town despite her voting for someone she thinks is town, and acting like scum?In post 860, Hoopla wrote:That's the thing. People always assume we have time and that others will come around to their way of thinking before the end of deadline, which prevents people from compromising.In post 857, MariaR wrote: It's not like we have less than 24 hours or something we have 3 days that's plenty of time to come up with a lynch I think the problem is everyones reads are very spread out
I don't think the jaack wagon is going anywhere today so I['ll go on this one
VOTE: Victor
^Good game-forwarding vote, though
And... sadly this is the same thought-terminating schlock that I see this game. Unsurprisingly Vedith was lynched day 1, unsurprisingly he was town. So I am faced with the possibility that Hoopla has simply become trapped in a toxic loop.Hoopla wrote:ok, i have RETURNED
i've done a quick read over the pages i've missed and the main concern i have is about the lack of serious wagons that have been generated. a lot of people are posting noise and are not attempting to further the game through their votes, which is bad given we've already used 30% of day 1's allotted time. the most important things that happen on day 1 post-claim, and we NEED time to analyse that/potentially switch and create a counterwagon or whatever else. so start voting people who are realistic wagons.
on this topic, i'm not sure what to think of elyse. initially i had her as quite town before bbmolla decided to conftown himself, and though i still find her zeal for that vote OK and not suspicious, it is concerning that she talks about willing to compromise and search for new targets yet has done nothing in the last 8 pages and STILL hasn't unvoted bbmolla despite acknowledging he isn't going to happen today.
i'm liking the composition of the vedith wagon: bbmolla, cmitc1 and house make for a fairly town trio, so i am going to jump on board given i don't have a town read on vedith.
VOTE: vedith
more to come...
See it's overreasoning for the vote, and the reasoning isn't very good.In post 101, Jaack wrote:Of those three I think Sotty is most likely. She had an empty vote, but at the same time added a few weak reads right afterword. Seems like someone who knew their vote was not good, so they decided to put down some content so as to not get blamed for fluff. 86 also shows more self awareness about the quality of her posts.
Similarly if Hoopla is town, this is a very easy observation to make. If she's scum... eh, that's harder. I honestly think based on this post if Jack's scum then Hoopla is assuredly town. But again, it's thin.In post 111, Jaack wrote:Using dice tags in rvs is the kind of thing that tends to get people on your case, essentially for the reasons michel gave when he voted hoopla. It's sort of like self voting in rvs in that it's liable to get people talking about you early.In post 109, MariaR wrote:Jack why do you think talking about dice is risky for scum btw I don't get it
I don't think it's a pro-town play, but it rather on the nose for scum.
I'd like to go over some things that irk me about this post. The first isIn post 318, Jaack wrote:I go away for a bit and everyone posts everything. Let's ketchup
In post 112, goodmorning wrote:I like that you start by saying "IF" and then somewhere between there and the end of the post it magically changes to "IS" with no real explanation.In post 101, Jaack wrote:If there is scum on the wagon
And by "I like" I mean "I don't like." Also VCA is dumb okJust looking for a place to start. While you may disagree with my methods of getting there, I do think my logic for scumreading sotty is solid, which is, you know, why I posted it.(1)
I think that's all that was directly addressed to me, but for some general thoughts--(2)
It seems strange to me that there has been as much discussion about BBT with his lack of content, particularly when he is not alone in said lack of content. (particularly I Am Innocent, but also sort of myself and Michel)(3)
Still comfortable with townreading Hoopla and Rask. BlackVoid seems relatively townie as well.(4)
I kinda have no clue whats going on with Victor and GM, although Victor's last few rage-y posts do feel a little fake to me.(5)
I was inclined to townread Cloud for his early trolly play, but the self-awareness and apology-ness of 272 give me pause.(6)
All in all I'm still rather comfortable with my vote on Sotty for now.(7)
Wow that's exactly my thoughts on Cloud.In post 515, Jaack wrote: I think cloud is going a bit under the radar as of late. A lot of people seem to be willing to write off his actions as playstyle, but reading through this iso, it seems like he's been trying way to hard to assert himself as an important part of the town while simultaneously acting trolly. I'm not really sure here, but I'm feeling he's scummier than people have been treating him as of late.
This is also town as fuck. The "shit or get off the pot" attitude is fucking town. There's a mea culpa, but no apologies. It's like "okay, my early game was shit, but I'm still in the game so I get to fucking play it." Town.In post 800, Jaack wrote:Upon further examination, I will concede this. I didn't originally feel as if your discussions with TwoFace were particularly productive and it felt more like you were biding your time until BBT came back and you could focus on him again. On a second read, I don't think you're pushes on TwoFace are as intense as your pushes on BBT, which does give me pause, but it's the smoking gun I considered it before.In post 795, Sotty7 wrote:Okay that's just blatantly untrue. I push Twoface hard and we have an extensive back and forth that could have easily became a death tunnel. I am interacting and questioning twoface who starts off answering me and then just really falls back to insulting and taking pot shots at me. I pushed his voting behavior, I asked him for several reads a couple of pages back that he still hasn't provided. What would you consider "pushing a scum read"? Vote them then disappear for several pages and never interacting or questioning them again like you have been doing with me?In post 754, Jaack wrote:But in that interim, she does very little to push on that TwoFace vote.
As for the shade on me, I get it. I screwed up by being lazy and not participating for a good section of this game. If I get lynched for it that's on me. But that fact that you keep bringing up every time I try and do something now is counterproductive. Well, at least it's detrimental to me trying to contribute. Just because I had a bad start to the game doesn't mean I can't have something to say now.
Again, things like this are pretty playful and attention grabbing for scum.In post 874, Jaack wrote:In post 870, MariaR wrote: I don't hate anyone! ;-;Blatant contradiction, confscumIn post 866, MariaR wrote: I h8 u
In post 85, Raskolnikov wrote:Okay, if you're town stop talking like this then.In post 82, Hoopla wrote:I feel like it's fairly obvious from context that I am just teasing goodmorning (she seems like a good kid imo and I might invite her to start a town bloc if/when she proves her innocence to me) -- but really, who could resist such a juicy wagoning opportunity this early in the game?In post 70, Raskolnikov wrote:Mostly though, the post saying she feels her scumread is about to crack under pressure but she changes vote is absurd to me.
It's vague as to when you're "serious" or not which makes any given action low-commitment. If an opinion is convenient to hold on to, you can later say it was serious. If inconvenient, you can say it wasn't.
But in this case that feels like a stretch. You voted on dice and then said you voted not for it which implied it was at least somewhat serious, as well as what you said about switching. It's almost goes too far really.
Whatever align this has to end. Anyone can realise the issue here; if someone is disingenuous and saying things they don't mean as town, you are not any different from scum being disingenuous and saying things they don't mean. This behaviour from town makes scumhunting difficult so it shouldn't be allowed on principle past RVS (is this still rvs?) unless it's very obvious to be joking, which evidently it was not. And it gives scum an out when people do find a slip up.
It also just annoys me, but that's because I am a uptight bastard who gets bothered seeing people all cheerful-like and having fun... But that's not relevant here.
*ahem*
I want a serious read from you on me as leading wagon, goodmorning (good kid? is that a read or personality?), and whatever else you can offer. Underneath your attitude, I am vaguely familiar with your experience and particularly game knowledge from the setup theory threads, and even if this particular thing hadn't happened, I would want something from you anyways at this point to judge.
More followup, good followup.In post 92, Raskolnikov wrote:Am I in the twilight zone?
You seem to be taking credit for this wagon which I don't get. Not only that, but justifying your playstyle with it (??).Hoopla wrote:You may not like it, but it's already netted us an L-2 wagon so I must be doing something right.
Even if you assume any early wagon is good as it starts the game, I'm pretty sure your style was not the cause of this at all and that doesn't somehow negate or address my actual, explicitly voiced problems with it.
Me: I have a problem with your play for X Y and Z reasons
Answer: [doesn't respond to points] it got us this l-2 wagon so it must be good!
Will anyone see my problem with this?
If you actually think like this, UGH.
Okay, we're starting to get into sensible territory.Hoopla wrote:I thought BlackVoid's post illuminating your overly qualifier-y post was good and I like to reward good posts with wagon support.
Do you know what though? I townread black for that post as well. I don't think he is scum who faked that perspective.
The question isn't if you think it's a good post or not, it's if you agree with what's said as something alignment indicative.
If you're town and think playing the game "rewarding" good posts with votes without having your own opinion is a good approach, I don't know what to say. For starting an rvs wagon, okay. It's still earlygame for now.
But if you play like this midgame or later (well you see your honor, I lynched him yesterday to reward a good post) it might be actually be for the best if I'm out of this early.
Not this question, that's null.In post 46, Sotty7 wrote:I'm curious Cloud, how do you kick start games on epicmafia without random voting?
RVS has been here for as long as I have been on this site, or at least as long as I remember. It's changed and migrated over the years, but it is pretty much always fruitful in starting the game from nothing, especially since day starts became more common. It's not perfect but the reason it is still here is because there hasn't really been anything to replace it.
I mean right now we have you and Michel debating playing style over anything that has really happened in the game yet. Strongly held play ideals won't change from a scum to town role, but perhaps how someone enters the game in "RVS" will.
This followup. She doesn't understand how he thinks, so she's poking at it.In post 68, Sotty7 wrote:What do you think of this wagon that's popped up?In post 61, CloudKicker wrote:lol funny, i have no idea why youd make a post avec someone null-telling with non-alignement tellings posts about mechanics. Also, whats the difference between ''much nothing at this point'' and ''neutral read'' -> isnt everyone a neutral read by default when you dont have any reads on themIn post 60, Sotty7 wrote:Happy enough with hoopla's post on Michel to have him as my first town read. Hoopla piggybacks off this with a slight town read as well, even though she probably would point this out as scum or town.
Cloud I have a neutral read since most of his posts have been about playing style but I'm hoping that's just because he is new.
Everyone else is pretty much nothing at this point.
You're right about the neutral read but I wanted to make more of a mental note when it came to you.
Reading, interacting, followingIn post 184, Sotty7 wrote:Innocent is capitalized because I was talking about a player that is in the game -> "I am Innocent" I don't blame you for missing it that, he's a lurking bum right now.In post 126, CloudKicker wrote:>I dont actually know if this is towny or considered anti-town for outing possible soft but, why using the wordcapitalized over town/townie/sided with the town ? And if this was a soft, wold you make yourself the goal to have interactions with me almost every single you have? like i feel you have 0 actuals reads on me.Innocent
Following, finding consensus...In post 273, Sotty7 wrote:Someone points out why self meta is bad, you quote them and continue to self meta.In post 269, CloudKicker wrote:I come from a site where its very very hard to townslip on purpose and this was genuine. Its not alignement indicative to point said slip, you can then judge for yourself if you believe it is one or notIn post 263, Hoopla wrote:Usually when you point out things like this yourself they're less likely to be true than if someone else noticed it themself. Kinda like when people use the argument "I would never do X as scum", when that person has been doing X all game.In post 188, CloudKicker wrote:LOL woops btw i just townsliped that i cannot be mafia with i am innocent or i am a pro at forum mafia in my first gameMostly scum will disagree, ppl who will 100% buy it are scum pocketing you and the rest is yolo. Seriously most of the users on EM are disgustingly incompetent at mafia so i point out the slips. But i agree with the wifom.. i would never wifom like that as scum
Also, its just a non-team slip and its an obvious one
The flirting stuff is gross too
EBWOP: This is all because you can't read her Cloud? The vote suggests you are leaning more scum than anything else. When you say you want a read from her- you want her to read you or the game in general?
MariaR - Have you seen this from Cloud before?
Maria drops the ball on responding, but Sotty doesn't call it out (even though she legit could) but she keeps asking and sorting...In post 387, Sotty7 wrote:Talk to me about your Michel scum read or if it even is one. You have left your vote here for a long time now with little to no pressure, why should we be lynching him?In post 368, MariaR wrote:#ForevernullMaria
| Player | GreyICE | Rask | MariaR | Sotty7 | Creature | Hoopla |
| GreyICE | N/A | N/A | N/A | N/A | N/A | N/A |
| Rask | Probable | N/A | N/A | N/A | N/A | N/A |
| MariaR | Probable | Unlikely | N/A | N/A | N/A | N/A |
| Sotty7 | Eliminate | Probable | Probable | N/A | N/A | N/A |
| Creature | Probable | Probable | Likely | Probable | N/A | N/A |
| Hoops | Eliminate | Probable | Eliminate | Unlikely | Unlikely | N/A |
I don't think it's scummy of him to change his reads. I'm somewhat annoyed because your last few posts have looked town but I still think Victor has been more town throughout the game and I also have a townread on IAI. If it's you vs Victor or any of my townreads, then I'd rather flip you. But I still hope you come around to helping me lynch someone in my scumpool.In post 1001, GreyICE wrote:By the by, Blackvoid, what do you think of this?
