Mini Normal 1829 - Game Over

[Transcend]

Maria's tone feels towny, whereas I feel like Michel has not only made bad logic but has been opportunistic quite a few times this game.

[MariaR]

I like making filler posts what can I say.

[Thor665]

Like, Michael is using iffy logic - but he's presenting it clearly, not obfuscating, and openly is willing to debate.
That vibes town to me.
Sure, maybe not quality town I want to sheep - but I don't feel like he's trying to game stuff.

Maria did more of a fake reaction to your test than anyone did, and openly misrepped me, and when I pointed it out just ignored that she did it - which even in the kindest of world's suggests she's town who isn't reading for comprehension.

So why do you hate on Michael and love on Maria?

PEdit - opportunistic where and how? I called Maria out on being opportunistic and her best rebuttal was agreeing with me.

[Thor665]

I like making filler posts what can I say.

I'm aware, there is a reason this game is so bloated.

[Transcend]

same

i mean after all aired out filler posts are NAI.

but for some odd reason people think they are..... what a crazy world we live in...

[JarJarDrinks]

JJD:

I don't exactly think you're scum for this but....

If you thought I was BSing my mason claim why did you vote me immediately when I retracted as opposed to when I was actually claiming mason...

I didn't think u were BSing ur mason claim. I was skeptical of it which is why I grilled u about it. But ultimately I had to believe it cause that's how mafia work. Only the most terrible ego-driven townies would would risk the game w stupid gambits like that.

[MariaR]

Like, Michael is using iffy logic - but he's presenting it clearly, not obfuscating, and openly is willing to debate.
That vibes town to me.
Sure, maybe not quality town I want to sheep - but I don't feel like he's trying to game stuff.

Maria did more of a fake reaction to your test than anyone did, and openly misrepped me, and when I pointed it out just ignored that she did it - which even in the kindest of world's suggests she's town who isn't reading for comprehension.

So why do you hate on Michael and love on Maria?

PEdit - opportunistic where and how? I called Maria out on being opportunistic and her best rebuttal was agreeing with me.

what did I do o-o

[kraska77]

thor why do you keep saying im a good lynch
also sorry i got distracted and forgot to complete my catchup
i'm on it now

[Transcend]

Can you stop for two fucking seconds and acknowledge that there is a

chance

that my "gambit" was intended to benefit the town and not to benefit my scum game?

[Thor665]

PEdit - opportunistic where and how? I called Maria out on being opportunistic and her best rebuttal was agreeing with me.

@Transcend

thor why do you keep saying im a good lynch
also sorry i got distracted and forgot to complete my catchup
i'm on it now

Revelations 3:16 mostly.
You barely exist - when you skate that much you shouldn't act shocked that people are fine with your lynch.

[Transcend]

Here's why Mich is opportunistic vs. Maria imo.

Someone rando votes Blitzkrieg. The only post that Blitz made was a vote to BW my joke vote on Maria.

I felt the way Michel planted his vote on Blitzkrieg was very tactical and not genuine.

He over justified his reason to vote her based on one measly factor.

Few pages later I fakeclaim mason to save my townread blablabla I fess up to lying since it was a deliberate fake claim anyways.

JJD votes me most likely for legitimate reasons.

Michel said I was scum for quite some time but only votes me when JJD votes me. "hmm this could possibly get momentum lemme go here".

Long story short, he hasn't done anything independently and he's just candy coating the lynches he think will get some momentum with stupid, flawed reasons.

[JarJarDrinks]

Can you stop for two fucking seconds and acknowledge that there is a

chance

that my "gambit" was intended to benefit the town and not to benefit my scum game?

I'm not calling u confirmed scum or anything so yeah, I acknowledge that there is a chance that ur gambit was

intended

to benefit the town.

What I don't acknowledge, is that there was any chance that ur gambit actually could benefit town.

[Transcend]

I'm more of quality>quantity guy fwiw. I think kraska's "lack" of content is NAI.

[MichelSableheart]

But you're never going to find actions in thread that town would never take. If town never takes them, scum can't afford to take them either or they would get lynched in a heartbeat.

If you know nothing about a player, he has a certain chance to be scum.

If he subsequently takes an action that he's very likely to take if he's scum, and not likely to take if he's town, it becomes far more likely that he's scum, even if there are situations where he would take that action as town.

That is a gross oversimplification of my rebuttal, and also of the very concept of the game.
The point is that actions have rough percentages, some are more likely to be done as scum, or as town, even though both alignments do them.
You are presenting that there is zero chance town do what he did.
I am showing evidence that town explicitly do it - and am suggesting they do it in fairly even numbers.
You're then debating emptiness with me, I don't get it.

No, I'm presenting that there is a relatively low chance that he does it as town, and a very high chance that he does it as scum.

That you can find an example where a town player fakeclaimed mason doesn't really counter that. Given your evidence, I have a 50% chance of lynching scum if I lynch someone fakeclaiming mason, as opposed to (generally) a 3 in 13 chance if I lynch completely randomly. Those are awesome odds!

[Transcend]

Can you stop for two fucking seconds and acknowledge that there is a

chance

that my "gambit" was intended to benefit the town and not to benefit my scum game?

I'm not calling u confirmed scum or anything so yeah, I acknowledge that there is a chance that ur gambit was

intended

to benefit the town.

What I don't acknowledge, is that there was any chance that ur gambit actually could benefit town.

Well fmpov I feel it did because I was going to keep my claim for as long as I could without having to fess up I was bsing because Maria was towntelling in my humble opinion and people were lynching her. I tried saying "hey maybe you shouldn't lynch her". She only got more votes. Am I just gonna sit there and let town get lynched? Fuck to the no. I'll pull any fucking card up my sleeve I can to save my townread. And it would've benefitted town because Maria wouldn't be lynched and I wouldn't be lynched and you'd have a 3/11 chance of lynching scum based on odds alone.

[Transcend]

Michel's refusal to believe that both fakeclaimed masons can be town is fake btw.

[Shadow_step]

That was my first prod ever bleh

Catching up now

[JarJarDrinks]

Michel said I was scum for quite some time but only votes me when JJD votes me. "hmm this could possibly get momentum lemme go here".

Or maybe he voted you for as soon as u revealed u were fake claiming? Pretty sure it was his first post after ur admission.

[kraska77]

PEdit - opportunistic where and how? I called Maria out on being opportunistic and her best rebuttal was agreeing with me.

@Transcend

thor why do you keep saying im a good lynch
also sorry i got distracted and forgot to complete my catchup
i'm on it now

Revelations 3:16 mostly.
You barely exist - when you skate that much you shouldn't act shocked that people are fine with your lynch.

*shrugs* i think i did influence the game somewhat? even if im getting voted, my posts made a ripple...atleast gamestate is no longer stuck in a michel vs maria loop
what about blitz tho? bc i think theyre skating for real and im scumreading that slot

[Transcend]

Or maybe you're a dumb blind idiot who can't see when he's getting manipulated.

[Shadow_step]

ahem... moderator....

Question to everyone else
Are jesters allowed in normal games?

[Transcend]

K hi welcome to this. The way the mason claim came about was ass backwards compared to what happened here. But Titus was getting wagoned and claimed masons with a town that was white knighting her. The WKing town reluctantly obliged to be fakeclaimed masons with her.

I can hear them howling

Yes, I see round about what you're getting at. We should discuss that more mason buddy but do be carefully.

Wasn't going to let you get lynched

[Transcend]

ahem... moderator....

Question to everyone else
Are jesters allowed in normal games?

fake

[JarJarDrinks]

that was a pretty fast catchup shadow. Anything else to add?

[Thor665]

Someone rando votes Blitzkrieg. The only post that Blitz made was a vote to BW my joke vote on Maria.

I felt the way Michel planted his vote on Blitzkrieg was very tactical and not genuine.

He over justified his reason to vote her based on one measly factor.

Translation - he places an RVS vote

Few pages later I fakeclaim mason to save my townread blablabla I fess up to lying since it was a deliberate fake claim anyways.

JJD votes me most likely for legitimate reasons.

Michel said I was scum for quite some time but only votes me when JJD votes me. "hmm this could possibly get momentum lemme go here".

Translation - votes you for fakeclaim, which is a perfectly functional vote, and though it might be opportunistic, is opportunistic off the fake claim, not off JarJar.

Long story short, he hasn't done anything independently and he's just candy coating the lynches he think will get some momentum with stupid, flawed reasons.

Even if this is true - there's just as many examples for Maria, and since none of them are excusable as RVS, better examples.
So I have to kind of ask again, do you think you're ignoring/handwaving Maria's actions and focusing/tunneling Michael's?

I'm more of quality>quantity guy fwiw. I think kraska's "lack" of content is NAI.

Since he lacks both quality and quantity - I don't see the real debate point here.

No, I'm presenting that there is a relatively low chance that he does it as town, and a very high chance that he does it as scum.

You have failed to show this in any way.
What you *have* argued is that town shouldn't do what he did, a point I will happily agree with, but that is not then translatable into a low chance that he or other town would do that action.

That you can find an example where a town player fakeclaimed mason doesn't really counter that. Given your evidence, I have a 50% chance of lynching scum if I lynch someone fakeclaiming mason, as opposed to (generally) a 3 in 13 chance if I lynch completely randomly. Those are awesome odds!

I am willing to wager that outside of L-1 situations town fakeclaims more than scum do, even allowing for the larger number of players that draw town roles and allowing that alignment is not a fakeclaim.

You are also being a bit fast and loose with percentages there, as one could easily argue that any given player has a 50% chance to flip scum, as well as a 23% chance in this setup. I am not interested in debating percentages when neither you nor I have anything remotely close to valid info to draw those numbers from.

*shrugs* i think i did influence the game somewhat? even if im getting voted, my posts made a ripple...atleast gamestate is no longer stuck in a michel vs maria loop

If you want to argue that a player caused that as opposed to the natural flow of the game, then it was Transcend who did that - not you by any stretch of the imagination.

what about blitz tho? bc i think theyre skating for real and im scumreading that slot

I think he's done more than you, and though I don't particularly town read him, I have a stronger town vibe there than a scum vibe at the moment. If you want that case you need to actually sell it. I'd lynch you over him with a smile on my face and not a second thought.