Mafiascum.net

In post 766, PJ. wrote:I used to BE AP Soraka before they made her shitty.

I agree that for the first ~9 minutes, support is more important than ADC. That doesn't make it a good, healthy or interesting role. And it doesn't make it one that really has a direct impact on the game.

It 100% has a direct impact on the game.

A bad support will mean botlane (mostly) loses.
A bad support won't roam and help struggling teammates.
A bad support has no vision / objective control.

A good support will deny vision late game and will force a pick. If that's not directly impacting the game I don't know what is.
-Side note: I'm a support main, I'm obviously going to be biased

In post 773, hiplop wrote:just got an mf penta in a ranked game

https://gyazo.com/f69c1e3e933d5f9e78dee411e2f543cc

ekko didn't snowball 0/10 shit team

In post 775, Draynth wrote:

In post 766, PJ. wrote:I used to BE AP Soraka before they made her shitty.

I agree that for the first ~9 minutes, support is more important than ADC. That doesn't make it a good, healthy or interesting role. And it doesn't make it one that really has a direct impact on the game.

It 100% has a direct impact on the game.

A bad support will mean botlane (mostly) loses.
A bad support won't roam and help struggling teammates.
A bad support has no vision / objective control.

A good support will deny vision late game and will force a pick. If that's not directly impacting the game I don't know what is.
-Side note: I'm a support main, I'm obviously going to be biased

the thing about support is since there are way less people playing support than other roles, when ur actually good at what u do u def outshine and can even lightweight carry early game

^Very true. I generally know very quickly whether my opponent support actually mains it or not

In post 775, Draynth wrote:

In post 766, PJ. wrote:I used to BE AP Soraka before they made her shitty.

I agree that for the first ~9 minutes, support is more important than ADC. That doesn't make it a good, healthy or interesting role. And it doesn't make it one that really has a direct impact on the game.

It 100% has a direct impact on the game.

A bad support will mean botlane (mostly) loses.
A bad support won't roam and help struggling teammates.
A bad support has no vision / objective control.

A good support will deny vision late game and will force a pick. If that's not directly impacting the game I don't know what is.
-Side note: I'm a support main, I'm obviously going to be biased

this is why I don't play ADC in ranked, I don't like the idea of how well I do in lane being determined by RNG

I mean, don't get me wrong. Having a bad support as an ADC is frustrating as hell.
But having a bad support when the enemy support is equally as bad is moderately OK.... at times

And then there's the full ap Sona/Zyra/Lux supports without sighstones.

But it feels really bad to fall behind as support and then get picked off every time you try to create vision. But Im still not bored playing as support for two years. Still feel precious about my 12 lvl5 supports

i'd main it but i just don't know if a support can "save" games as easily as a midlaner or jungler can

wish i could go mid/support in draft pick without always getting support

^ Basically that. I've taken to just clicking Fill nowadays because if I'm going to get support a lot of times anyway, I may as well not limit my options to NOT play support on the off-chance somebody else picked it. I have at least a couple champs I can deal with in each role so it's also fun to do for variety in Normals.

That being said, Fill Life has its merits: you get placed faster (on average) than if you picked any specific role, and I'm actually pleasantly surprised by how often I don't get support if I'm playing between midnight and 9 AM.

In post 775, Draynth wrote:

In post 766, PJ. wrote:I used to BE AP Soraka before they made her shitty.

I agree that for the first ~9 minutes, support is more important than ADC. That doesn't make it a good, healthy or interesting role. And it doesn't make it one that really has a direct impact on the game.

It 100% has a direct impact on the game.

A bad support will mean botlane (mostly) loses.
A bad support won't roam and help struggling teammates.
A bad support has no vision / objective control.

A good support will deny vision late game and will force a pick. If that's not directly impacting the game I don't know what is.
-Side note: I'm a support main, I'm obviously going to be biased

You and the guy who agrees with you are in Diamond. In Diamond, this is probably true, I'll take your word for it. I'm merely a mediocre league player(gold lifer). But down where the rest of us play(sub-plat) those thing literally do not exists. The roaming support only gets his ADC killed from being alone in what's probably a kill lane and probably gets rekt wherever he left to anyway. Botlane losing isn't the end of the world and typically when the support roams in mid mmr or lower, it's because he hates his carry and they are already 2+ kills down. That's the "Gold Support Experience". Some asshole feeds your lane, tells you that you suck, goes and feeds a different lane, while you get zoned out and dove for the rest of the game.

And support play being good or bad, doesn't change the fact that no one wants to play support. If given the opportunity, every support main would play something else. If they made a different 5th role viable(or just erased support all together by making it 4v4). No one would be sad. Not even Diamond support mains.

First paragraph is totally true and I acknowledge that.

I completely disagree with the second sentiment. I (personally) don't play support because the role is fun / not fun / I can't play anything else (Which I do to a similar-ish level I want to point out), I love the champions and the intricacies of said champions. I like the intellectual battle between actually good supports for vision control and the co-ordination that a support has to form with their team in ranked in order to thrive.

I guess you can call me weird but I'm perfectly happy with support as a role and would be sad to see it go.

You can't even speak for everybody in this thread on a vast majority of issues, Panzer, so I'm not sure it's fair for you to purport that you represent everyone when you say "nobody would be sad" if support were removed. Kinda silly to say that.

In post 787, Maestro wrote:You can't even speak for everybody in this thread on a vast majority of issues, Panzer, so I'm not sure it's fair for you to purport that you represent everyone when you say "nobody would be sad" if support were removed. Kinda silly to say that.

Except that I'm very clearly in the majority here. Why do you think your queues are so long? Why do you think "fill=support"? Why does everyone complain that they can't make support their secondary because they get it a vast majority of the time? Why did Riot literally just implement a system where your preference choices are null and void based if you are in queue for a long time in an effort to shorten their queue numbers? Remember how long it took them to implement this pick your role system in the first place? Do you remember the excuse? "Queue times will get longer because nobody wants to play support" That was the ACTUAL RIOT RESPONSE to why we couldn't have the role system 5 years ago. I can firmly say, the vast majority of players, wouldn't miss the support role.

And can you even really disagree Maestro? Doesn't Klazam support in the vast majority of your games?

Despite what I said earlier in thread, a lot of my best champs are supports, so I would miss them.

In post 788, PJ. wrote:

In post 787, Maestro wrote:You can't even speak for everybody in this thread on a vast majority of issues, Panzer, so I'm not sure it's fair for you to purport that you represent everyone when you say "nobody would be sad" if support were removed. Kinda silly to say that.

Except that I'm very clearly in the majority here. Why do you think your queues are so long? Why do you think "fill=support"? Why does everyone complain that they can't make support their secondary because they get it a vast majority of the time? Why did Riot literally just implement a system where your preference choices are null and void based if you are in queue for a long time in an effort to shorten their queue numbers? Remember how long it took them to implement this pick your role system in the first place? Do you remember the excuse? "Queue times will get longer because nobody wants to play support" That was the ACTUAL RIOT RESPONSE to why we couldn't have the role system 5 years ago. I can firmly say, the vast majority of players, wouldn't miss the support role.

And can you even really disagree Maestro? Doesn't Klazam support in the vast majority of your games?

None of this makes any sense.

I think they created a vicious circle. By not "capping" the chance of getting your secondary role, they created a system where the least picked role (support) was more likely than your primary role to pop. And because of that, even if you wanted to play no more than HALF your games as support, you're forced to not pick support.

Personally, I'd pick Mid, Support if I knew support didn't have more than a 50/50 shot of being my position. But I know I'm probably getting no more than 20% of games as mid that way.

But because of that, they made it even HARDER to find a support. And unless you're truly churning games, having a slightly longer wait time is basically a non-factor. Who cares if I have to wait 10 minutes? vs. 2 when the games last 30-70 minutes (including draft and load)?

I don't think it's because supports have no effect, even at lower levels. A good support is going to be able to climb. But if you're talking about influence % of each role, Supports are less important. You can look at the challenger ladder to see that. You have to go 31 places down to find your first support.

In post 788, PJ. wrote:

In post 787, Maestro wrote:You can't even speak for everybody in this thread on a vast majority of issues, Panzer, so I'm not sure it's fair for you to purport that you represent everyone when you say "nobody would be sad" if support were removed. Kinda silly to say that.

Except that I'm very clearly in the majority here. Why do you think your queues are so long? Why do you think "fill=support"? Why does everyone complain that they can't make support their secondary because they get it a vast majority of the time? Why did Riot literally just implement a system where your preference choices are null and void based if you are in queue for a long time in an effort to shorten their queue numbers? Remember how long it took them to implement this pick your role system in the first place? Do you remember the excuse? "Queue times will get longer because nobody wants to play support" That was the ACTUAL RIOT RESPONSE to why we couldn't have the role system 5 years ago. I can firmly say,

the vast majority of players

, wouldn't miss the support role.

And can you even really disagree Maestro? Doesn't Klazam support in the vast majority of your games?

The bolded part is what I'm referring to as it's different from what you said earlier.

The 'vast majority of players' not missing the support role is completely different to 'most support mains' not missing the role. That's legitimately like saying - Well duh, a small percentage of the world's population have an interest in irish dancing.

It's the least popular role because it's not as impactful as other roles and it's not as rewarding if you don't know what you're looking for.

I don't know how you eliminate the support role. No matter what you do, there's only 3 lanes of gold. Maybe you could make the jungle more fruitful for double jungling?

In post 790, Ankamius wrote:

In post 788, PJ. wrote:

In post 787, Maestro wrote:You can't even speak for everybody in this thread on a vast majority of issues, Panzer, so I'm not sure it's fair for you to purport that you represent everyone when you say "nobody would be sad" if support were removed. Kinda silly to say that.

Except that I'm very clearly in the majority here. Why do you think your queues are so long? Why do you think "fill=support"? Why does everyone complain that they can't make support their secondary because they get it a vast majority of the time? Why did Riot literally just implement a system where your preference choices are null and void based if you are in queue for a long time in an effort to shorten their queue numbers? Remember how long it took them to implement this pick your role system in the first place? Do you remember the excuse? "Queue times will get longer because nobody wants to play support" That was the ACTUAL RIOT RESPONSE to why we couldn't have the role system 5 years ago. I can firmly say, the vast majority of players, wouldn't miss the support role.

And can you even really disagree Maestro? Doesn't Klazam support in the vast majority of your games?

None of this makes any sense.

mafiascum.net. Where the truth doesn't make sense.

In post 792, Draynth wrote:The 'vast majority of players' not missing the support role is completely different to 'most support mains' not missing the role.

I would argue that most support mains, are such because SOMEONE has to support, not because they actually want to be a support. Even ani admits to wanting to jungle rather than support. Most supports would rather be something else. Why do you think you have such a large pool of "support mains" in lower elo that are just auxillery mid laners and not actual supports?

But that's mostly just gut.

The fact that support isn't directly impactful and that the vast majority of players will not play it are both objective facts.

None of it makes any sense because support-style playstyles are always the least popular ones. Even then, the fact that most people don't want to play them has no bearing on whether they want them to be in the game or not.

In post 796, Ankamius wrote:None of it makes any sense because support-style playstyles are always the least popular ones. Even then, the fact that most people don't want to play them has no bearing on whether they want them to be in the game or not.

This isn't true. Support is pretty wildly popular in Overwatch. I'm pretty sure medic is played a ton in TF2 as well.

Also, quick note, people keep mentioning how support isn't fun.

Obviously support is the least popular role to main, we all know that. But it's not as if it's a ridiculously low number either. At the end of the day those people main it for a reason,

A)They enjoy it
B)They're good at it

*I'm talking about people who still play support if playing solo as opposed to just filling in on a team or summat.

Those people play it for a reason. It's never going to be practical to create a role that everyone enjoys playing all the time, because that legitimately defeats the purpose of maining a role

In post 795, PJ. wrote:

In post 792, Draynth wrote:The 'vast majority of players' not missing the support role is completely different to 'most support mains' not missing the role.

I would argue that most support mains, are such because SOMEONE has to support, not because they actually want to be a support. Even ani admits to wanting to jungle rather than support. Most supports would rather be something else. Why do you think you have such a large pool of "support mains" in lower elo that are just auxillery mid laners and not actual supports?

I'm only defining 'maining' support as a player playing it when both solo and premade with people. Otherwise they're not a support main