Self-Voting: is it always a bad idea?

[Prof. Guppy]

Sometimes, when I feel that nothing I can say to the players will keep them from lynching me, I'll vote for myself to be lynched. For some reason, that only makes you scummers even more mad at me. What is it? Do you want me to fight it, so you can enjoy your victory when the inevitable occurs?

Why is it, that when it's already been decided that I am scum, you all get upset when I vote for myself? I'm just helping you all out, right? What's wrong with offering myself up as a sacrifice?

[shaft.ed]

Main problem is that the hammer vote can be the most incriminating. Since you hammer yourself, the hammerer is thus obviously innocent, and it's one less risk the scum may need to take to get a lynch. So just be patient and wait to get lynched next time. While you're doing so try to behave as pro-town as possible so that townies are less likely to make the hammer. Alternatively you can just post your role PM when you're at L-3, if you really want to help the town.

[JDodge]

Alternatively you can just post your role PM when you're at L-3, if you really want to help the town.

People who do this should be banned.

Seriously.

[Thestatusquo]

Hammering yourself when you're scum can be sound strategy when you are certain to be lynched (for instance, if there is a cop guilty on you.) It cuts off town discussion, and gets the game to night without the town power roles being able to coordinate any kind of strategy.

The reason people get upset in that instance is that as a player in the game, your job is to make every move with the intention of winning the game. To do anything else undermines the very purpose of the competition. So even if you're "helping them out" you're not actually playing the game, which will anger people who are playing the game. Because what kind of challenge is it if the scum goes down without a fight (without a reason, as I discussed in my previous paragraph.)

[WomensRights]

I've only self-voted once, and it was because I was town, there was a large bandwagon on me, we were 5 minutes from the deadline, and I wasn't at enough votes to be lynched. I self-voted to prevent a no-lynch, because in my opinion lynching a townie is far worse than a no-lynch.

Otherwise it's mostly some emo shit that people do when they get all depressed about no one believing them and that's why people will get mad at you if you do it.

[Thestatusquo]

I've only self-voted once, and it was because I was town, there was a large bandwagon on me, we were 5 minutes from the deadline, and I wasn't at enough votes to be lynched. I self-voted to prevent a no-lynch, because in my opinion lynching a townie is far worse than a no-lynch.

This is probably one of the most woefully misinformed statements I have ever heard in my life.

[Peers]

On the other hand, if you're town and hammering yourself (usually done out of spite or a desire to get it over with), the other townies will hate you because a) you've deprived them of a town player, b) prevented them from getting hammering info, c) thrown it in their face that they were wrong, and d) given up when it's possible that 'one last' vote may not have shown up and bought enough time to discuss other possible scum-choices.

[WomensRights]

I've only self-voted once, and it was because I was town, there was a large bandwagon on me, we were 5 minutes from the deadline, and I wasn't at enough votes to be lynched. I self-voted to prevent a no-lynch, because in my opinion lynching a townie is far worse than a no-lynch.

This is probably one of the most woefully misinformed statements I have ever heard in my life.

And a no lynch is better than a townie lynch because...?

[Fiasco]

Because... extra townie.

[Patrick]

I can think of some situations where a townie lynch is better than no lynching.

[WomensRights]

And absolutely zero information regarding the previous day's vote and lynch.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Answer: Yes

[Sarcastro]

No. One could be a Jester.

Otherwise, yeah, pretty much.

[Thestatusquo]

I've only self-voted once, and it was because I was town, there was a large bandwagon on me, we were 5 minutes from the deadline, and I wasn't at enough votes to be lynched. I self-voted to prevent a no-lynch, because in my opinion lynching a townie is far worse than a no-lynch.

This is probably one of the most woefully misinformed statements I have ever heard in my life.

And a no lynch is better than a townie lynch because...?

In a game of mafia...You LOSE when your number becomes equal or less than the number of the informed minority. Getting rid of yourself as a townie makes the scum THAT much more likely to live, and a lynch "for the sake of a lynch" does not grant that much information anyway, since most people will be on it for that stated reason. At the point where you know you are innocent, it is absolutely horrendous play to assume you're better off being lynched in that situation. While your point is correct from the vantage of someone who does not already know your role (Random lynch is better than no lynch) it is not from the perspective of one who has information.

[The Fonz]

Town self-voters should be nailed to the wall, forced to listen to Hanson's greatest hits on repeat, and not allowed out until either they promise never to do it again, or maaaaybe, if i feel in a really nice mood, when their ears start bleeding. I don't think there's anything that pisses me off more in a mafia game.

[Mr. Flay]

Self-lynching is only useful as a Jester (a role which IMO shouldn't exist) or as scum. I did this to good advantage in Newbie 436 to throw off the town's read of D2 (after successfully arguing cicero out of doing it himself on D1). It cuts short discussion, throws off vote tracking, and otherwise disrupts with scumhunting.

It's NEVER a good idea as town. Anyone who threatens to do so should be lynched or beaten severely about the head and shoulders.

[Thesp]

Main problem is that the hammer vote can be the most incriminating. Since you hammer yourself, the hammerer is thus obviously innocent, and it's one less risk the scum may need to take to get a lynch. So just be patient and wait to get lynched next time. While you're doing so try to behave as pro-town as possible so that townies are less likely to make the hammer.

QFT. Making someone else do the deed makes it incriminating. fight to the end and don't give up - it will help the town get more information based on how people react.

I've only self-voted once, and it was because I was town, there was a large bandwagon on me, we were 5 minutes from the deadline, and I wasn't at enough votes to be lynched. I self-voted to prevent a no-lynch, because in my opinion lynching a townie is far worse than a no-lynch.

As a survivor of such a vote (where I wasn't lynched at deadline and thus we no-lynched), I think this is nearly categorically wrong. In this instance, no-lynch was ultimately clearly superior to the lynch of a townie.

And absolutely zero information regarding the previous day's vote and lynch.

This is very, very wrong. How in the world could you suggest there's

zero

information garnered on a failed deadline-lynch? (In particular, in Face-to-Face Mafia, the lack of lynch on an eventual confirmed townie gave us troves of info about who did and didn't vote.)

[Fritzler]

Town self-voters should be nailed to the wall, forced to listen to Hanson's greatest hits on repeat, and not allowed out until either they promise never to do it again, or maaaaybe, if i feel in a really nice mood, when their ears start bleeding. I don't think there's anything that pisses me off in a mafia game.

That's what I do every Saturday night.

do ba da da mmm bop

[Glork]

I think there is one situation in which a protown player can feasably self-vote without getting utterly destroyed.


Nobody has managed to name that situation yet.

[Thestatusquo]

RANDOM VOTING STAGE. Thats it.

[Yosarian2]

I've only self-voted once, and it was because I was town, there was a large bandwagon on me, we were 5 minutes from the deadline, and I wasn't at enough votes to be lynched. I self-voted to prevent a no-lynch, because in my opinion lynching a townie is far worse than a no-lynch.

This is probably one of the most woefully misinformed statements I have ever heard in my life.

And a no lynch is better than a townie lynch because...?

It depends. If there are a number of confirmed innocents, and the town is in the process of narrowing down the last few scum out of a limited pool of possible scum, lynching a townie out of that pool IS better then a no-lynch. Or, if person X is a townie and everyone thinks he's scum, it might arguably be better for him to be lynched today rather then to have a no-lynch today and have person X lynched tommorow.

That being said, that is one of the few times it makes sense for a good guy to self-vote. Generally, every vote cast on a bandwagon that goes to a lynch gives the town information, and when you vote for yourself, that's one less bit of information the town gets from your lynch. Also, around here it's quite common for a bandwagon to build up, get close to a lynch, and then fade away for any number of reasons; giving up prematurly is bad for the town. Not only that, but if you fight as hard as you can but are lynched anyway, you might at least force the scum to work a little harder in order to lynch you.

[Tarhalindur]

Self-voting isn't usually a good idea as town (though I've been known to self-vote and even self-hammer as town, usually due to frustration), since it deprives the town of information from the lynch.

I do not agree, however, with the people who think that a townie should always play to keep themselves alive. In my opinion, a vanilla townie shouldn't care about being lynched in the early game (the information gained from the bandwagon far outweighs the loss of a townie, especially if the town plays properly), since the town's top priority is to kill the scum (NOT to survive).

The only strong argument I can see for townies offering defense on D1 or D2 is that it makes it harder for the scum to distinguish power roles.

[Shanba]

As a vanilla townie, the only person you know is town is yourself - therefore, by letting yourself be killed you are guaranteeing that scum will not be lynched that day.

[Yosarian2]

I do not agree, however, with the people who think that a townie should always play to keep themselves alive. In my opinion, a vanilla townie shouldn't care about being lynched in the early game (the information gained from the bandwagon far outweighs the loss of a townie, especially if the town plays properly), since the town's top priority is to kill the scum (NOT to survive).

The only strong argument I can see for townies offering defense on D1 or D2 is that it makes it harder for the scum to distinguish power roles.

No, I can't agree with that. The best reason for a townie defending himself is that if if he does so sucessfully, then, on day 1 with 5 scum out of 20, the town now has a 5/19 chance of lynching scum instead of a 0% chance of lynching scum. Sure, there's also a risk of outing a power role, but it's generally better to take that risk in order to have a chance of lynching scum then to just roll over and die.

[CrashTextDummie]

I think there is one situation in which a protown player can feasably self-vote without getting utterly destroyed.


Nobody has managed to name that situation yet.

2 townies, 1 mafia, 1 SK endgame.