Page 7 of 109
Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 10:12 am
by Jaack
This is primarily what I'm talking about
In post 135, Dunnstral wrote: In post 66, Jaack wrote:
@zach - top scum read? If it's Dunn then give me your top town read instead.
Remember when I said this looked out of place?
I don't know what you're seeing there that you don't like.
Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 10:15 am
by Zachstralkita
Dunnstral wrote:
@Zach What's all this shade getting thrown my way without really saying anything of value
You're scum.
Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 10:50 am
by Dunnstral
And this is what I'm talking about: yet again you're trying to steer the conversation into talking about nothing? I'm not being cryptic about anything, I was just pointing what you said out to reiterate that it actually was something weird and now you're hounding me over it
Why are you ignoring Zach? I thought you townread me, or did that go away once I pushed on you? Once again why are you ignoring Zach?
Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 11:02 am
by Jaack
In post 152, Dunnstral wrote:
And this is what I'm talking about: yet again you're trying to steer the conversation into talking about nothing? I'm not being cryptic about anything, I was just pointing what you said out to reiterate that it actually was something weird and now you're hounding me over it
Why are you ignoring Zach? I thought you townread me, or did that go away once I pushed on you? Once again why are you ignoring Zach?
I think we're talking past each other somehow, but whatever.
I do still townread you. I would like to here why Zach thinks your scum, but he's not giving any indication that it's anything other than gut.
Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 12:00 pm
by iraonavp
Why are you voting for me?
I am town-aligned.
Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 12:04 pm
by iraonavp
In post 119, toolenduso wrote:This game is basically contradicting my expectations of how town usually gets out of RVS. I feel like it usually goes like this:
RVS votes -> player A says something mildly scummy -> people wagon player A, and in the process player B says something weird -> people wagon player B
By this time in the game I feel like there's usually been a legit wagon. Since there hasn't been one yet in this game, I feel like scum is either disjointed or timid.
The main thing was that I really expected at least a small wagon on Robert for his first post. As soon as I saw it I thought it looked very surface-level scummy. Exactly the sort of thing you can make a shallow case on. Good place to look for scum trying to go for something easy/look like they're scumhunting.
Then jaack was the only person to do anything about it. After that:
ira kinda joke-criticized jaack about it in
#29, Tyler townread jaack in
#54 for it, Keyser voted jaack for it in
#55 and Dunn votes and makes a case on jaack in
#91.
It just kinda makes sense to me that jaack could be scum and his partners didn't support the robert wagon but are also not really dealing with the fallout on jaack either. He's a good place to start, I think.
VOTE: jaack
In other news, re-reading gave me a townlean on Tyler. Not entirely for the way he's playing, though he is doing work (a surface-level towny-looking thing), but more the way that people started townreading him almost in kind of snowball fashion. It's striking me as the kind of thing where town say he looks town, impressionable town agree and scum hop onto the townreading wagon in an effort to have genuine-looking reads.
Is it not equally likely that Jaack voted Robert because he genuinely believed his post was suspicious, regardless of how "surface level" that belief might be?
Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 12:06 pm
by iraonavp
I think Dunnstral is town-aligned. I don't see his posts as fake or unnatural at all.
Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 12:17 pm
by xyzzy
I'm gonna make a few posts in a row probably; I might leave for dinner (or the white panel van selling ice cream outside my apartment right now, because I guess an actual ice cream truck was too expensive (no, for real, there's a white panel van selling ice cream outside)), so some of those posts might be later? here's the first one:
In post 97, iraonavp wrote: In post 88, Jaack wrote: In post 80, Keyser Söze wrote:
OK - I can understand your reasoning about scum being over-cautious or self-conscience in early D1 play, but I am not seeing that fear/over-concern in Robert2424's opening post. I saw it as a RVS reply to Jake from State Farm's RVS vote.
"offering an opinion without justification or commitment"
? - I have never seen this on Page 1 of a game.
I like playing aggressively at the beginning of D1. At the very least, it gets discussion going, and sometimes you'll get lucky and catch scum.
And I still don't think that Robert's post was an RVS post. I mean you may be right, but it seems serious to me. Not that it really matters because when Robert comes back he can write it off as RVS either way.
Why does it matter whether or not his post is RVS?
why on earth would it
not
matter?
Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 12:41 pm
by xyzzy
In post 103, iraonavp wrote:I think that voting the largest wagon is a good way to conduct RVS.
I voted Keyser because I found him suspicious? I don't see what's comical about that.
what about voting the largest wagon do you find helpful? I don't necessarily disagree entirely, but it seems like something vastly more variable than that.
In post 106, Dunnstral wrote:^^ I'd be more inclined to believe that mafia would sit back early and only start pushing later on in general but of course it depends on the person
I don't personally think there's any strong correlation in either direction between alignment and willingness to commit to an opinion early. (although now I'm contemplating whether it would be a valuable use of dozens of hours to look at a very large number of games to test this theory...)
In post 119, toolenduso wrote:This game is basically contradicting my expectations of how town usually gets out of RVS. I feel like it usually goes like this:
RVS votes -> player A says something mildly scummy -> people wagon player A, and in the process player B says something weird -> people wagon player B
By this time in the game I feel like there's usually been a legit wagon. Since there hasn't been one yet in this game, I feel like scum is either disjointed or timid.
I definitely agree that this day is moving in an abnormal fashion; I'm curious how you believe this would likely affect most town players, since you offered an opinion on how that might change scum behavior.
In post 120, toolenduso wrote: In post 89, xyzzy wrote:Zachstralkita has managed to talk a lot while saying very little, and I really don't like that.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Zachstralkita
It strikes me that this is kind of an easy vote to make.
What do you think of the possibility that zach is just a jokey player, so his posts are naturally going to have less solid content in them?
That being said...
...the jokey playstyle does make it harder for me to know whether statements like this one are serious. Can you explain the dunn vote, zach?
calling it an easy vote is probably fair. a big part of my voting for him was an effort to get him to actually talk--I agree, for instance, that his vote requires explanation that isn't there yet.
In post 122, Zachstralkita wrote: In post 120, toolenduso wrote:
...the jokey playstyle does make it harder for me to know whether statements like this one are serious. Can you explain the dunn vote, zach?
None of you see it. I FUCKING SEE IT. This isn't Dunn being town, it's him trying to look like he's being town.
I'd bet one of my body parts on Dunn flipping scum if I.... had enough of those to lose
this still isn't an explanation, and it's still not helpful to anyone; saying that we don't see it is pointless unless you're willing to explain precisely what it is you see, and repeating that you're confident isn't an explanation.
like, what does this even mean? what are you talking about with Dunnstral's "aura"? this post isn't helpful to anyone.
Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 12:43 pm
by Zachstralkita
There's not much to say at this point, you lynch him, he flips scum, yay, you lynch him, he flips town, you lynch me.
More likely: You lynch me, I die, no one does anything about Dunnstral following this.
Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 1:04 pm
by Jaack
In post 159, Zachstralkita wrote:There's not much to say at this point, you lynch him, he flips scum, yay, you lynch him, he flips town, you lynch me.
More likely: You lynch me, I die, no one does anything about Dunnstral following this.
You seem to be 100% sure Dunn is scum. Okay. I'm not. In fact I'm leaning against it.
Tell me why I should vote for dunn. Using evidence.
Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 1:30 pm
by toolenduso
In post 158, xyzzy wrote:I definitely agree that this day is moving in an abnormal fashion; I'm curious how you believe this would likely affect most town players, since you offered an opinion on how that might change scum behavior.
Knowing how they'd respond would likely depend on individual playstyles. Errybody's different. For some people it might mean trying harder to get the game going -- maybe by starting a wagon just to see what happens -- and for others it might mean that they get disinterested and don't participate as much.
In my case, it's led to me trying to start a wagon to see what happens.
What do you think of jaack?
Can you share some thoughts? And how they lead to you voting for Jake?
Who's to say anybody would listen to him if he tried to get you lynched?
In post 155, iraonavp wrote:Is it not equally likely that Jaack voted Robert because he genuinely believed his post was suspicious, regardless of how "surface level" that belief might be?
I mean, yes, that's a possible motivation. But the motivation behind jaack's vote on Robert wasn't as important to me as people's reactions (or lack of reactions) to both jaack and Robert.
Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 1:53 pm
by Dunnstral
Anyways like I said I'm less believing in jaack being mafia now so I'll be the one to end the wagon
UNVOTE: jaack
fixed tag
This is where I turn my attention elsewhere, problem is we still have 4 people who haven't really said enough (though they all either went vla or just replaced in or mia) - Robert, Jake, Floof, and heuristically_alone (who hasn't said anything all game and should probably be prodded/replaced or something)
Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 1:54 pm
by Zachstralkita
Jaack wrote: In post 159, Zachstralkita wrote:There's not much to say at this point, you lynch him, he flips scum, yay, you lynch him, he flips town, you lynch me.
More likely: You lynch me, I die, no one does anything about Dunnstral following this.
You seem to be 100% sure Dunn is scum. Okay. I'm not. In fact I'm leaning against it.
Tell me why I should vote for dunn. Using evidence.
Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 1:55 pm
by Dunnstral
Mistakes were made
UNVOTE: jaack
Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 1:59 pm
by Dunnstral
In post 119, toolenduso wrote:This game is basically contradicting my expectations of how town usually gets out of RVS. I feel like it usually goes like this:
RVS votes -> player A says something mildly scummy -> people wagon player A, and in the process player B says something weird -> people wagon player B
By this time in the game I feel like there's usually been a legit wagon. Since there hasn't been one yet in this game,
I feel like scum is either disjointed or timid.
In post 161, toolenduso wrote: In post 158, xyzzy wrote:I definitely agree that this day is moving in an abnormal fashion; I'm curious how you believe this would likely affect most town players, since you offered an opinion on how that might change scum behavior.
Knowing how they'd respond would likely depend on individual playstyles. Errybody's different. For some people it might mean trying harder to get the game going -- maybe by starting a wagon just to see what happens -- and for others it might mean that they get disinterested and don't participate as much.
In my case, it's led to me trying to start a wagon to see what happens.
What do you think of jaack?
Interesting theory, let's see if it works
VOTE: Bins
There's also too many people who aren't interacting with this person
Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 1:59 pm
by Jake from State Farm
In post 134, Robert2424 wrote:However.......I must prepare myself for Jake. For he may try to take revenge upon me from a previous game.
1. Happy birthday
2. I dont even remember playing with you
Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 2:21 pm
by Dunnstral
In post 163, Zachstralkita wrote:Jaack wrote: In post 159, Zachstralkita wrote:There's not much to say at this point, you lynch him, he flips scum, yay, you lynch him, he flips town, you lynch me.
More likely: You lynch me, I die, no one does anything about Dunnstral following this.
You seem to be 100% sure Dunn is scum. Okay. I'm not. In fact I'm leaning against it.
Tell me why I should vote for dunn. Using evidence.
You 8 pages from now as you're being lynched day 1: "If I was mafia do you really think I'd be attracting all this attention to myself!"
Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 2:25 pm
by Zachstralkita
In post 167, Dunnstral wrote: In post 163, Zachstralkita wrote:Jaack wrote: In post 159, Zachstralkita wrote:There's not much to say at this point, you lynch him, he flips scum, yay, you lynch him, he flips town, you lynch me.
More likely: You lynch me, I die, no one does anything about Dunnstral following this.
You seem to be 100% sure Dunn is scum. Okay. I'm not. In fact I'm leaning against it.
Tell me why I should vote for dunn. Using evidence.
You 8 pages from now as you're being lynched day 1: "If I was mafia do you really think I'd be attracting all this attention to myself!"
My goal is to get you lynched and rid the world of your scumminess.
I have factored my own death into the equation.
Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 2:27 pm
by Jake from State Farm
Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 3:10 pm
by Zachstralkita
Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 3:19 pm
by Jake from State Farm
Sup
Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 3:21 pm
by heuristically_alone
Hey everyone. Feel free to call me Alone. This turned into a crazy weekend. Starting tomorrow I will be able to take this game super serious!
Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 3:22 pm
by Jake from State Farm
Good, at least somebody needs to
Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 3:59 pm
by xyzzy
In post 138, Bins wrote:sorry ur gonna get a quote post per page because the site doesnt hold onto my quotes properly
In post 41, Dunnstral wrote: In post 38, Bins wrote:
You entered the game with a level of comfort that looked sort of like "hey look at me! scum would never post like this!" It's a strategy I use... to often as scum. That's why it struck me as odd.
Fair point, kind of.
"level of comfort"? Should I be spazzing out and telling everyone I'm town
Uh, no that's kind of what I felt like you were doing.
It was either really scummy (hence the vote) or really town (as in, you're actually comfortable because you're really are town but you're just slightly awkward about it).
And to be clear, I know you aren't being serious in your first few posts. Like I get they're jokes.
you backed off a lot in this post relative to how you were originally in #38; have your opinions about Dunnstral changed significantly?
In post 141, Bins wrote:I don't know what side I'm on in the whole Keyser/Tyler vs. xyzzyz. I have a tendency to be paranoid of people who act like they know what they're doing. I disagreed with a few of Keyser's points, but his entry is solid and I find myself agreeing on the bigger points.
I liked xyzzyz's follow up in 89 a lot (the long post). I felt like he comfortably was able to explain himself and elaborate further on his earlier points.
I didn't like Tyler's entry. Who was the person who said they had a strong townread on him? I'd really like you to explain that.
i c u u get me
I'm pretty sure I'm the one who felt good about Tyler that you're asking about; basically, he's doing a good job analyzing a lot of players and saying useful things and feels very genuine. I felt like the "guess why I'm voting this way" in #46 wasn't that great (it's kind of a leading question that just gets other people to answer for your actions), but that's the only thing I've specifically disliked.
In post 159, Zachstralkita wrote:There's not much to say at this point, you lynch him, he flips scum, yay, you lynch him, he flips town, you lynch me.
More likely: You lynch me, I die, no one does anything about Dunnstral following this.
why do you believe that you being lynched is more likely?
In post 161, toolenduso wrote: In post 158, xyzzy wrote:I definitely agree that this day is moving in an abnormal fashion; I'm curious how you believe this would likely affect most town players, since you offered an opinion on how that might change scum behavior.
Knowing how they'd respond would likely depend on individual playstyles. Errybody's different. For some people it might mean trying harder to get the game going -- maybe by starting a wagon just to see what happens -- and for others it might mean that they get disinterested and don't participate as much.
In my case, it's led to me trying to start a wagon to see what happens.
What do you think of jaack?
I'm having a hard time reading Jaack; he asks a lot of useful questions, but I'm having a hard time deciding how I feel about him. I think his belief that one of me, toolenduso or Bins is scum is noteworthy.
what lead to this vote? obviously I'm fine with votes on Zachstralkita, but this is still a post that's empty other than having a vote in it, which isn't great given how little you've said so far.
also
