Mini 1787: Peruvian Nightclub Mafia (Game End!)

[Jake from State Farm]

So who are you currently scum reading? You ask a bunch of questions but I don't remember seeing you really make a strong push on anyone. It's actually kind of annoying but that's just a personal thing

Trying to find where you have scum reads day 1, I don't see where you did at all. Which is interesting since you asked at least one person for their reads but never really gave any of your own(if I'm mistaken please link me but on my phone I couldn't see it. )

[toolenduso]

Hey zakk!

So I did some analysis during the night, and I'm only going to post the first half (next post) until I get answers from Bins and Tyler on the following questions:

my take is that i don't like roberts play but

i can't remember the last time scum misread their role pm

whereas town do it once in a while

If robert was fakeclaiming scum, he wouldn't be reading a role PM. He'd be making up a claim. So what did you mean by this?

But in a way, man, clearing up the H_A and Robert scum possibility is important. I just agree that there's a chance - A CHANCE - that H_A is scum and Robert is not and that's more likely than Robert scum and H_A not. Robert's move, much like Irao's, was crazy town.

The first couple sentences here seem to suggest you think Robert could be scum. The last suggests you're sure he's town. Which was it, and what do you think of Robert's claim now?

[toolenduso]

On second thought, I'll just wait to post my analysis until I get answers from them. Just to do things right and make absolutely sure I'm not influencing any answers.

[zakk]

it was moderately confusing before having a Zach and a Jaack and a Jake; now we have a Zakk, too.

I'm Zaack from State Farm, get it right pls thx

[Bins]

The first couple sentences here seem to suggest you think Robert could be scum. The last suggests you're sure he's town. Which was it, and what do you think of Robert's claim now?

The move was crazy town itself. As in, if H_A had flipped town, Robert would be pretty much conf town to me. But now that's he's flipped scum, I have no idea.

I'm going to look at interactions before I throw around feelings about people.

[Jake from State Farm]

it was moderately confusing before having a Zach and a Jaack and a Jake; now we have a Zakk, too.

I'm Zaack from State Farm, get it right pls thx

[Tyler the Creator]

I'm really glad that Tyler didn't die because I'm really curious about 688.

you've been kinda lingering in and out of null and scum for me for a while; like you'll have a decent post here and there and i think the townest thing you've done was what looked like some real conviction with your state farm scumread early but even that is more meh because i haven't seen you do anything with it, much less ever vote him (or did you?)

[Jaack]

VOTE: Robert2424

I have a big post detailing why this is scum on the way, but for now I'll park my vote here.

In other news, a couple parts of 698 give me scumvibes. Xyzzy uses a lot of words to say very little, at least in terms of opinion.

I also don't like the unnecessary apology for tunneling zach. Looks like scum that's too self aware of how they're playing.

[Tyler the Creator]

looking back on it, a lot of the pressure on both ira and h_a started with Keyser, so a careful reading of Keyser's ISO seems very worthwhile, and I'll definitely do that soon; given the whole issue of him voting for h_a early on even though ira was the more logical vote based on the reasoning he presented in the thread, I... well, I'm not sure how I feel about it; I'll have to think about that.

I think in general yesterday I was playing really paranoid, and pushing too hard on the "you're not helping the town, so you're scum" angle on Zachstralkita; he's another person whose ISO I'd like to reassess.

first quip seems strange because it's like you've got (what looks like) a thought process going for a minute into just a hard waffle
and your finished analysis on what you think it means with regards to keyser would be great when you can

second quip is fine because the couple conclusions i came to from ha's iso of them were that zachstralk became more town

but at the same time is that actually what your read on zach boiled down to and are you reading him differently now and if you are what is it based on if you haven't reassess yet?

[Jake from State Farm]

VOTE: Robert2424

I have a big post detailing why this is scum on the way, but for now I'll park my vote here.

In other news, a couple parts of 698 give me scumvibes. Xyzzy uses a lot of words to say very little, at least in terms of opinion.

I also don't like the unnecessary apology for tunneling zach. Looks like scum that's too self aware of how they're playing.

Meh I don't think he's scum. The whole role pm was weird but scum isn't going to out themselves like that as their partner is about to be lynched.

[Tyler the Creator]

If robert was fakeclaiming scum, he wouldn't be reading a role PM. He'd be making up a claim. So what did you mean by this?

depends if scum get fakeclaims? i don't play a lot of normals so im not completely sure if that's usually a thing

my point was basically that scum are more careful when claiming stuff

[Jaack]

Why Robert2424 is a scum and all of you need to vote for him: A Brief Essay

Robert2424 is a scum and should be lynched, preferably on Day 2. He has done many scummy things so far in this game. First of all, he has a insanely scummy claim. He softclaims his role 563, calling it a weak townie. He later repeatedly refers to himself as such, despite such a role neither making sense nor matching the description he gives as to what his role does. It is not until a number of players point out his mistake that he 'checks his PM' and confirms that he is actually macho. He does this in post 603 after affirming that his PM said weak in 596. However, even if we were to explain away this as an honest mistake, his claim is still terrible. The Macho modifier, while theoretically conceivable on an otherwise vanilla role, is virtually always seen on something with a night action, generally a powerful one, so as to balance it. While this role claim may have been believable when there were two claimed protective roles, with heuristically_alone flipping scum, it eliminates that possibility. A sole bodyguard is already a weak protective role and does not really need to be weakened further with the addition of a random VT that can not be protected. Overall his claim makes no sense.

Some of you may be wondering "Why would Robert make such a bad claim?" This is a reasonable response, but there is an equally reasonable answer. Robert was attempting to save his scumbuddy, heuristically_alone, who at the point of his claim, was the inevitable lynch target. He attempts to use his role to 'explain' how there could be two protective roles in the game. While this attempt clearly failed to save HA, it did result in more than one person considering the possibility that both he and iraonavp were telling the truth. While this gambit may seem like a bad idea, it does not make it impossible. Furthermore, his claim no more sense than the hypothetical gambit. When something makes this little sense, the best option is probably to lynch it and get an explanation.

If you are still not convinced of Robert's guilt, I offer further evidence of it. In Day 1, when I, along with other players, pointed out the issues with his claim, he attempted to shift blame to our benevolent mod, as seen in posts 563, 596, and 603. In addition, when I attempted to start a wagon on him, instead of responding to my accusations he attempted to discredit me, both by not-very-subtly pointing out that I could be scum (596) and by later deriding my clearly superior grammar 671. (For more on this, see the spoiler below.) Robert has clearly avoided my accusations, instead choosing to post meaningless trifles. I am not the only player that Robert does this with, as he makes a similar micro-accusation towards Tyler in 563.

While you can surely see Robert's guilt at this point, for the sake of posterity, I will continue with my analysis of his extreme scumminess. His first two posts in this game (12 and 134) are both fluffy votes discussions of his history with Jake from State Farm, with Robert going as far to say that he is suspicious of Jake due to their previous history. While the first such post may be explained away as being RVS, the second one essentially repeats his previous statement, despite the fact that there had been significant discussion of the first post as being possibly scummy. While fluff in the early game is somewhat acceptable, the fact that Robert has very little content to begin with makes the high percentage of fluff notable.

Continuing, in 331 Robert offers some brief reads on players in the game. He states that he has scumreads on four players: Ira, Zach, HA, and Jake. With the exception of Jake, these were the most widely held scumreads at the time. His read on HA is particularly notable as he only 'barely nudges' his way onto his scum list. Now it may seem understandable to view widely scumread players as scummy -- they wouldn't be widely scumread if they were not. But we must also take a look at his townreads, or should I say read. Robert specifically says that Dunn is the only player he is townreading and that everyone else is null. This is an extremely scummy list of reads.

Aside from these scummy things, the only other thing Robert did Day One was apologize for his inactivity. He did not attempt to scumhunt in any way and did not offer defense towards his actions other than 'you might be scum'. Robert2424 is scum and should be lynched today.

Finally, let's consider the actions of the playerbase as a whole at the end of Day 1 as they relate to robert. A brief summary: Scum-HA was wagoned and he claimed doctor prematurely. Players quickly unvoted but then town-ira counterclaimed him resulting in basically everyone re-voting HA. Wagon stalled briefly while people talked, but pretty much everyone agreed HA was scum. I gave intent to hammer in 556. Then Robert comes in with his lolclaim and we all wait around to figure stuff out before we lynch HA.

That's when I made a push to lynch Robert instead and wait to lynch HA D2. Now you would think that if Robert were in fact town, scum would jump on the opportunity to lynch him instead. Not even now-confirmed scum HA voted Robert. But literally only one person, Tyler, voted for Robert after I did. This scenario makes a lot more sense if Robert is scum.

Robert2424 is scum and we should lynch him.

Spoiler: A Brief Grammar Lesson

Robert2424 made a disparaging remark regarding my skills at writing in the English language. He could not be more incorrect in this accusation, particularly considering his own poor grammar. Let's take a look at that accusation. Exhibit A:

Jack. If your going to mention me in your posts. Please use proper grammar.

This is truly a statement without any sense of self-awareness. The first thing that jumps out is the incorrect use of 'your'. The correct word there would have been the contraction 'you're' or, alternatively, the full form, 'you are'. Continuing, this brief thought contains a clearly evident sentence fragment. The clause "If you're going to mention me in your posts" is a dependent clause, as it begins with the word 'if' which is a rather common subordinating conjunction. Any clause that begins with a subordinating conjunction must be accompanied with an independent clause, and can be separated from such clause with a comma. Robert's statement does have a candidate independent clause, specifically "Please use proper grammar", but he separates this from the aforementioned dependent clause with a period, not a comma. While I might have been willing to believe this was a mere typo and not a grammatical violation, when one considers that the independent clause began with a capital letter, it becomes apparent that this was no minor typing peccadillo.

While I could continue with my critique of Robert's grammar, which has been consistently inadequate, for the sake of time, I will leave it at that

[Jake from State Farm]

Nah he's a bad lynch imo and you should feel bad for making that post

[Jake from State Farm]

Then Robert comes in with his lolclaim and we all wait around to figure stuff out before we lynch HA.

What's the scum motivation for this? If scum is about to be lynched why would scum out themselves like that? They wouldn't.

The fact nobody hopped on Robert doesn't mean anything either. Ha's lynch was a done deal the moment a cc happened. No scum would risk exposing themselves by hopping onto Robert

[Jake from State Farm]

Oh and if you say wifom I'll virtually slap you after the game if you are town

[Jaack]

Then Robert comes in with his lolclaim and we all wait around to figure stuff out before we lynch HA.

What's the scum motivation for this? If scum is about to be lynched why would scum out themselves like that? They wouldn't.

The fact nobody hopped on Robert doesn't mean anything either. Ha's lynch was a done deal the moment a cc happened. No scum would risk exposing themselves by hopping onto Robert

I explained this in the second paragraph, but here is the relevant quote from Robert that explains scum motivation:

H_A, and Iraon was both on my scum list, but this development tends to make me believe they are both more townie. That probably sounds really strange, but hey, Zuffy decided to make me a weak townie so there it is. I thought my role was weird, but it makes more sense with those roles in the game.

I'm in 80% sure both are town now and think the wagon should be dissolved

. I could be wrong, and one or both are lying, but its unlikely.

Emphasis Added

It was a bad scum move, but I still think it was a scum move.

[Jake from State Farm]

Dude you aren't using common sense right now and that bolded doesn't make him look scummy. Trust me I think his claim is weird but there's literally no reason for him to make it as scum. I thought he was scum also But when I apply logic and common sense I just don't see scum intent. We can just agree to disagree I guess.

[Jake from State Farm]

And i definitely think there is better people to pressure, at least this early in the day phase.

[Zachstralkita]

ayo zakk what's goin on

let me just get one thing clear im gonna assume seniority on the basis of my name has an H opposed to a K


thank you for your time

I think in general yesterday I was playing really paranoid, and pushing too hard on the "you're not helping the town, so you're scum" angle on Zachstralkita; he's another person whose ISO I'd like to reassess.

Also gonna go ahead and second that the vote on Dunn is a bad move

[Jake from State Farm]

lso gonna go ahead and second that the vote on Dunn is a bad move

Objection noted

[Jaack]

Dude you aren't using common sense right now and that bolded doesn't make him look scummy. Trust me I think his claim is weird but there's literally no reason for him to make it as scum. I thought he was scum also But when I apply logic and common sense I just don't see scum intent. We can just agree to disagree I guess.

Robert literally claimed in order to prevent the lynch of a player who is confirmed scum. How can you not see scum intent in that?

[Jake from State Farm]

Because it's basically the same as claiming scum with another player. It's suicide.

Robert is town. Move on

[Zachstralkita]

H_A, and Iraon was both on my scum list, but this development tends to make me believe they are both more townie. That probably sounds really strange, but hey, Zuffy decided to make me a weak townie so there it is. I thought my role was weird, but it makes more sense with those roles in the game. I'm in 80% sure both are town now and think the wagon should be dissolved. I could be wrong, and one or both are lying, but its unlikely.

His post has no real scum motivation. It reads more like ( HELP ME IM TOWNIE ) than (IM SCUM... AND IM STUPID) tbh

[Jake from State Farm]

Dunn is the one who should be looked at. He at one point said he thought that ha was town and then did a 180 saying that posts after he claimed were scummy but I looked over those posts and didn't really see anything after he claimed that was so scummy. I think he realized that lynch was inevitable and decided to buss. Plus he's said multiple things that just wasn't true. He's not trustworthy and is probably scum.

[Dunnstral]

Also gonna go ahead and second that the vote on Dunn is a bad move

So are you going to explain how you went from hard tunneling me too "voting dunn is a bad move "