Blitz 26: Maintaining Law, Order... (Game Over)

[GuiltyLion]

But what exactly can scum do to manipulate or mess up a plan where we each only target one person, and we know who everyone targeted?

[Persivul]

UNVOTE:

I like that Dwlee is questioning others rather than trying to draw me into a 1v1.

Dwlee, Almost, lane are various degrees of townish. Need more activity from everyone else.

[Dwlee99]

You thought I was trting to 1 v 1 you? Na dude you are town lol

[Almost50]

I disagree with any plan in any game that attempts to game the setup. The simple answer is that with scum listening it's like trying to plan the landings at Normandy with the Germans listening. Even when I agree to the plans made by players during the day I usually don't follow them (as evidence by a recently ended town game of mine where I claimed vig and wasn't suppose to shoot at night at the command of other players but did anyway)

Again, you're talking of thing "in general", while we are in a very special case.

Let's say I announce targeting X and you announce targeting Y. We both get killed. The town had 2 suspects and one of them is scum for sure, bc while one of us might've died for the factional kill the other must've died for the PGO thing.

Now if you announce targeting Y but actually target Z, you're leaving the town with 2 suspects (X & Y) who could very well both be town while you dies for Z's PGO action. In other words, you'd be misleading the town.

Now NOT announcing your target, if we get 2 NK's we still wouldn't benefit from your death. For all we know, you could've targeted just about anyone in the game including the one I targeted (which would make them scum for sure bc they harvested 2 of us in one night), but we wouldn't know.

However, for the sake of argument.. how do you propose we play this out to give the town a better chance of winning? Let's say nobody announces their target, and we end up with -say- 3 NKs. Now what??

[lane0168]

VOTE: lane

You're usually scum so...

WRONG!

[Dwlee99]

Ok claiming nighr targets might work.

[Lucky2u]

I disagree with any plan in any game that attempts to game the setup. The simple answer is that with scum listening it's like trying to plan the landings at Normandy with the Germans listening. Even when I agree to the plans made by players during the day I usually don't follow them (as evidence by a recently ended town game of mine where I claimed vig and wasn't suppose to shoot at night at the command of other players but did anyway)

Again, you're talking of thing "in general", while we are in a very special case.

Let's say I announce targeting X and you announce targeting Y. We both get killed. The town had 2 suspects and one of them is scum for sure, bc while one of us might've died for the factional kill the other must've died for the PGO thing.

Now if you announce targeting Y but actually target Z, you're leaving the town with 2 suspects (X & Y) who could very well both be town while you dies for Z's PGO action. In other words, you'd be misleading the town.

Now NOT announcing your target, if we get 2 NK's we still wouldn't benefit from your death. For all we know, you could've targeted just about anyone in the game including the one I targeted (which would make them scum for sure bc they harvested 2 of us in one night), but we wouldn't know.

However, for the sake of argument.. how do you propose we play this out to give the town a better chance of winning? Let's say nobody announces their target, and we end up with -say- 3 NKs. Now what??

Nope, not a special case.

In your first scenario: How dumb do you think scum are? If I announce to visit target Y and you announce X, and one of the scum IS x or y, they'd be foolish to activate PGO and night kill the other. For exactly the reasons you've already stated, it shortens list of suspects to two people. Lets run through the other possibilities shall we?

Both X and Y are scum: This is the only case where NKing and PGO are a good idea. It's a gambit for sure, but if done right or late in the game could falsely confirm the other as town.

Niether X or Y are scum: We as town have gained nothing but we HAVE told scum that there is no need to activate your PGO tonight because it would go to waste.

One of X and Y are scum and scum are smart: don't submit a night kill, just activate your PGO. Scum kill less in the long run but they also save themselves from suspicion. This is the better option than submitting a nightkill and not activating PGO because the person who has announced they are visiting you might be the Cop or Jailkeeper and for obvious reasons PGO out come is best. Also if multiple people target you (as was discussed earlier) you get multiple kills.

Going to your second point, town liars. You already know how that screws things up.

Lastly, not announcing your target seems bad in the worst case scenario... but only in that worst case scenario. What about the best case scenario. Every town member targets a town player, the cop targets a scum player who (because we DIDNT announce our targets) doesn't think to activate PGO and we get a guilty, and/or the jailkeeper targets the other who also doesn't use theirs and we block the nightkill.

When you only highlight the bad outcomes it can make your plan seem reasonable, but I propose something FAR more radical to give town the best chance to winning this game: hunt the scum. It's a plan I am calling operation SCUM HUNT!

[Karnage]

Vote Count 1.2

Titus (2):

GuiltyLion, lane0168,

pignash (1):

Almost50,

persivul (1):

pignash,

Almost50 (2):

pisskop, Titus,

lane0168 (1):

Lucky2u,

Not Voting:

Ranger, Dwlee99, Persivul,

With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch!

Deadline is in

(expired on 2016-02-08 23:00:00)

(Monday, February 8th at 23:00 EST).

[lane0168]

VOTE: pignash

If we're going to use the setup to try to indicate scum, the way to do it is to target randomly. Since roles were assigned randomly, the player list is in effect random. We target the player below N1, then the player above N2. That way if there are two or more kills in a night, scum are narrowed down. There are also some downsides to this but I have to leave for work, will discuss them later.

I think this is the best play of any. Then we ask who veered from the plan day two. And why. That way we know who didn't actually get targeted. Best case scenario... Scum use pgo. We know who they are. Worst case scenario too many people deviate and we're back to good old fashioned scum hunting. If town actually do the plan, besides probably lucky cop and jail keeper, it should keep night kills to a minimum. 3 at most with scum found. And 0 at least, with 1 scum found.

[lane0168]

Or choose who you want to target. Up 1 or down 1. For the people that don't like to be told what to do.

Moving on to scum hunting

[lane0168]

Have you ever seen that happen before?

No...and? I don't need to see something happen to recognize the potential danger. Further, I said that doing so is reckless. Both town and scum can be reckless. The reason for my vote is Dwlee's response. If he had said

I wanted to see if Ranger would really put someone at L-1 so early

, or

I wanted to see Titus's reaction to an early L-1

, that would have indicated a town mindset. But, he said he did it just "for lolz," and that's not a town reason.

p-edit @ pisskop: see above.

I know you unvoted. But why not? Why isn't it for funny? You now think it's a town reason?

[lane0168]

@lane: Just because it didn't happen doesn't mean it cannot happen, and just because I/you didn't see it happen doesn't mean it didn't happen. Better safe than sorry, so let's not be reckless/careless.

I ask because no one ever does this. A hammer would be scum claim to be. There's no way id let someone convince me it was on accident.

Considering the fact that it almost never happens and ika is not in the game, the concern seemed overstated as pisskop pointed out, and that's why I asked.

I don't know what to make of Persy being worried about something that never happens, voting dwell for his scum reasons to ask ranger about the wagon, and then putting dwell in his town reads.

[lane0168]

UNVOTE:

I like that Dwlee is questioning others rather than trying to draw me into a 1v1.

Dwlee, Almost, lane are various degrees of townish. Need more activity from everyone else.

Would you have kept your vote there if he wanted to argue with you? Why? I don't think that would have been scummy imo

[lane0168]

VOTE: Lucky

Yeah, I am not laughing.

V/LA today.

VOTE: Almost50

No lynch D1? You can fry.

Why so serious?

And did you read his post? Or were you just skimming looking for something to call scummy and latch on? It was pretty obvious that a no lynch is best play in the game plan he was suggesting...

The game plan that he was suggesting as an option... And you want to lunch him for it? That's silly. And scummy

[Titus]

VOTE: Lucky

Yeah, I am not laughing.

V/LA today.

VOTE: Almost50

No lynch D1? You can fry.

Why so serious?

And did you read his post? Or were you just skimming looking for something to call scummy and latch on? It was pretty obvious that a no lynch is best play in the game plan he was suggesting...

The game plan that he was suggesting as an option... And you want to lunch him for it? That's silly. And scummy

I did. Any plan that requires no lynching is probably scum motivatived. I can't see how a townie could think that we should forgo scumhunting on day 1.

[Persivul]

Would you have kept your vote there if he wanted to argue with you? Why? I don't think that would have been scummy imo

He seemed overly concerned with a single vote, and in my experience, it's scum who obsess over a vote on them. Most town aren't concerned about a vote or two early on D1. Letting the issue go and moving on to question Titus was a town thing to do.

And regarding 1v1s, we played scum together once and you said you wanted to draw someone into a 1v1 because you thought you'd come out looking good from it. I've watched for that in you and other people since then. (RC's scum game seems to consist two 1v1s: a friendly one with an emotional sort to get a steady ally, and a deathtunnel on a mislynch target). It's not a solid scum tell for everyone, but it's something I keep an eye on.

[Persivul]

Or choose who you want to target. Up 1 or down 1. For the people that don't like to be told what to do.

If people don't announce, we don't get info from the kills. If they do announce, and by some going up and others going down on the same target (that didn't come out right ), we risk excessive kills. It should be everyone goes the same direction N1, then everyone goes the other direction N2 so PRs get fresh targets.

[lane0168]

True. But for me, how did that turn out? Lol I only wanted to do that because I get in 1v1s as town and generally do look good and the other gets lynched many times if I actually am town. I can't do it as scum, because I can't find genuine shit to attack them for.

So I'm not feeling like it's town or scum for dwell to do it or not do it. If you believe it that's cool. I asked you about it to see if I could get a feel of you believing, or looking for a reason to unvote.

Your explanation seems legit

[lane0168]

Or choose who you want to target. Up 1 or down 1. For the people that don't like to be told what to do.

If people don't announce, we don't get info from the kills. If they do announce, and by some going up and others going down on the same target (that didn't come out right ), we risk excessive kills. It should be everyone goes the same direction N1, then everyone goes the other direction N2 so PRs get fresh targets.

True, but 1 in 16 chance 4 people die, assuming both scum activate. Good odds I think. And no risk if they don't. It leaves at least a bit of uncertainty for scum.

Scum can't kill someone to instigate wifom really... But that will be up to analysis after the deaths and who everyone actually targeted.

Low risk. High reward?

[lane0168]

Low risk meaning unlikely scum instant win. A chance of be willing to take. The thing is with no claim at all, we have absolutely no clue who died for what reason. And the only good thing is that hopefully they target their town read, are right.

[Lucky2u]

too long since a post!!!

so can we not try to game the setup and let scum play at max efficiency?

[Ranger]

VOTE: Persivul.

[Ranger]

{Dwlee}
{GuiltyLion, pisskop, Lucky2u}
{lane, Almost50}
{Titus, pignash}
{Persivul}

[Dwlee99]

Explain.

[Karnage]

grab