Mini 1710: A Midnight Sun -Game Over-
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VysePresident Mafia Scum
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@Grapes - I'm about to head out to work, but I'll try & answer you quickly. The short of it is that Vedith was initially posting weak stuff that bugged me - A couple shallow Townreads, including Townreading his own darn slot, and 1024 bugged me on a few levels. (I disagreed with most of what he was saying at the time, albeit on a surface level.) The rest of his content was more just meh - saying stuff, but not offering me any meat to work with.
None of it was something I felt strongly about, but I figured that made him a better compromise lynch than Klingon at the time, based on my scumread of Elbirn. (At this point, I'd still rather lynch Elbirn than Klingon, but I'll compromise on either, because I want to finally get past this whole issue.) While I'm trending back towards my scumread on Elbirn, I'm
Mostly, I like his commentary as he's approaching a lynch - it's more thoughtful than before, in a way that resonates with me. I don't entirely agree with him - I kinda think you're Town over Null - but I can see him reaching that conclusion, and how he got there. Now, I'm well-aware that scum do last ditch stands, and can do them really well, but when I look at this whole lynch in perspective, it's not a good one. There's too much laziness on my part - not in how I read him at the time, but in my lack of follow-through - and there's too little actual meat here.
There's also the factor of how my reads are shifting - perhaps if I was still Townreading LQ strongly, I'd vote Vedith anyway, based on PoE. This is not the case anymore - I'm starting to think LQ has been coasting off of his 'weirdness', because he lacks much actual growth or rhythm to his reads & the like. He jumps wildly based on opinionated theories, which I suspect is Null for him, but even the most opinionated Townies I've come across rarely do semi-random resets & the like, and LQ's timing & direction of those resets has left me with a sour taste in my mouth.
As a side note, if we have a scum team strong enough to play optimally in this game, I'll be shocked. Everything I've seen indicates scum are either going to be playing 'characters' (if Klingon, LQ), or using basic misdirection stuff. (If Elbirn.) People defending Vedith, ironically, makes him more likely to be Town, in my opinion. I don't think most of the scum team would be comfortable defending one of their own. (Now that I've said this, the rules are going to be a little different, but up to this point? Yeah.)
Also, I'd have hammered Marcrell at that point. I fail to see this as being particularly alignment indicative at that point in time. (Maybe if Marcrell had flipped scum, I'd be worried about a potential bus, but he didn't, and I'm not.)
And yeah, you're willing to take a chance & all on Vedith, but then, you were dead set on lynching TownSoren/Myself in McNinja, sooooo....-
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VysePresident Mafia Scum
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4nxi3ty Mafia Scum
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Klingoncelt Jack of All Trades
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In post 1270, Vedith wrote:In post 1267, Klingoncelt wrote:You guys know that Town still has a resurrect, don't you? If Vedith flips Town we can bring him back.
You know that's a sample role and doesn't mean we will actually have it, right?
I think we do have it.
This isn't a super-common game on this site, so I think the role list is limited.Klingoncelt: "The whole scumteam slipped on page 1. It's the new meta. Sheep me because my reads are so accurate that whoever I name gets mod-converted to scum."-MiniDeathStar-
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Klingoncelt Jack of All Trades
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Vyse, you're being just a little hypocritical here.
I let go of my stubbornness and re-evaluate my stances and that makes me either weak Town or Scum.
You change your reads and it's perfectly okay.
Pot/kettle.
And the lynch of your choice will magically give you information? No. Everyone who has ever said that was bullshitting. It's not alignment indicative, but it's absolutely bullshit. The only information we can get from any flip is if they flip Scum.Klingoncelt: "The whole scumteam slipped on page 1. It's the new meta. Sheep me because my reads are so accurate that whoever I name gets mod-converted to scum."-MiniDeathStar-
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Klingoncelt Jack of All Trades
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In post 1275, VysePresident wrote:
... I don't think most of the scum team would be comfortable defending one of their own.
That statement bugs me.
This isn't a normal game. I don't see Scum bussing one of their own.
Not only is the game nightless, but it looks like a setup I've seen on another site (SC2) where Scum teams can win with each other but function separately. If that's the case there's no way they'd bus.Klingoncelt: "The whole scumteam slipped on page 1. It's the new meta. Sheep me because my reads are so accurate that whoever I name gets mod-converted to scum."-MiniDeathStar-
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VysePresident Mafia Scum
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In post 1279, Klingoncelt wrote:Vyse, you're being just a little hypocritical here.
I let go of my stubbornness and re-evaluate my stances and that makes me either weak Town or Scum.
You change your reads and it's perfectly okay.
Pot/kettle.
And the lynch of your choice will magically give you information? No. Everyone who has ever said that was bullshitting. It's not alignment indicative, but it's absolutely bullshit. The only information we can get from any flip is if they flip Scum.
Sort of, yeah. I'm frequently a hypocrite on some level or another. My problem is less that you're changing reads, and more that you don't have a lot of meat to dive into, and the stuff we have isn't great.
Really, I think it's Elbirn, and I'm a bit dismayed to see I'mnotvoting him when I thought I'd replaced the vote back on him. (I'll do that in a new post, just because I want it to be easy to see.)
I think Vedith's less likely to be scum than you are, so I'll lynch you over him. I also think it'd help me tomorrow, even if you flipped Town, because then I'm free to focus on Elbirn, LQ, and maybe EmpB. (She's more filler, but with my readslist being what it is, I'm okay with that.)
Fair? No, and I understand if you hate it. I'd rather not lynch you first. But if I have to choose between the two of you? It's not going to be Vedith.
Also, this isn't a normal game, and I don't expect scum to be happy-go-bussy on each other, but you'd be amazed how much scum paranoia screws them over. I've won games as Town because the scum were afraid of drawing attention to each other. (As in, one scum could have put me at L-1 to essentially win the game, and wanted to wait. They also bussed a teammate at a critical point.) I don't know if I've ever lynched scum without help from their scumbuddies.
Sorry if this is a bit rambly. I'm tired, as per usual, and it's starting to wear on me.-
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VysePresident Mafia Scum
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grapes Mafia Scum
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In post 1275, VysePresident wrote:And yeah, you're willing to take a chance & all on Vedith, but then, you were dead set on lynching TownSoren/Myself in McNinja, sooooo....
protip: if you're trying to discredit someone, choosing a game where they nail the scumteam day 1 is probably not the best choice
also, hammering without getting a claim is 1000% scum motivated, especially in a nightless where we lose nothing from no lynching-
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Klingoncelt Jack of All Trades
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Klingoncelt Jack of All Trades
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In post 1280, Klingoncelt wrote:In post 1275, VysePresident wrote:
... I don't think most of the scum team would be comfortable defending one of their own.
That statement bugs me.
This isn't a normal game. I don't see Scum bussing one of their own.
Not only is the game nightless, but it looks like a setup I've seen on another site (SC2) where Scum teams can win with each other but function separately. If that's the case there's no way they'd bus.
*By "normal" I meant common, everyday, average, not Normal as in ruleset.Klingoncelt: "The whole scumteam slipped on page 1. It's the new meta. Sheep me because my reads are so accurate that whoever I name gets mod-converted to scum."-MiniDeathStar-
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VysePresident Mafia Scum
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In post 1283, grapes wrote:In post 1275, VysePresident wrote:And yeah, you're willing to take a chance & all on Vedith, but then, you were dead set on lynching TownSoren/Myself in McNinja, sooooo....
protip: if you're trying to discredit someone, choosing a game where they nail the scumteam day 1 is probably not the best choice
also, hammering without getting a claim is 1000% scum motivated, especially in a nightless where we lose nothing from no lynching
I forgot the Nightless part.
Hrm.-
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VysePresident Mafia Scum
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I'm finding it weird you're just looking at Vedith when I did roughly the same thing in 1023, Grapes. It wasn't officially the hammer, but
What do you think of LQ's 1018?
And if you nailed the scum team Day #1, my apologies for forgetting. I was more focused on what you were doing by the time I got into the game.
(Also, considering my own play that game, this is more teasing, and less discrediting. )-
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VysePresident Mafia Scum
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Elbirn Content Aficionado
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VysePresident
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Firebringer Trail Blazer
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In post 1289, Elbirn wrote:I'm elbirn and I am fleeing from the living horror that is a ~prod~
Best prod dodge 2k15.
Except for this post. This post just beat that post.Show"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.
His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown-
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Klingoncelt Jack of All Trades
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Vedith Survivor
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In post 1284, Klingoncelt wrote:Vedith, did you claim yet? You are L-1, you know.
Oh, I'm just a basic human. No additional powers so I assume VT.I claim scum \o/-
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Suzune Mafia Scum
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Suzune Mafia Scum
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Okay time to think about this.
I gave Vedith a lot of credit coming in because he was replacing into a spot that I thought was town. That meant for me he was an easy town read. Reading all the posts on this topic it seems like there are some interesting cases for and against. While I agree that there are safer lynches then this. I can see where the value in this comes from. While he made several townie posts about wanting to know what people's read is I think that he has done little to move the game forward. He is always there and a constant poster but nothing wows me in the way that Morningsun once did. So this got me to thinking that perhaps Morning sun was just better at hiding their faction. They played a big game and were always leading in points and discussion. However this need to lead behavior could give them control over the flow of the game too, which in a game of this magnitude would give the mafia a lead.
Since he will only give his reads list when he gives them we have no going reads list to get something from expect for post 1024. So I have no idea about his postions at all. I feel like this might be kind of a risky choice for the town, but I think it is a reasonable conclusion that Vedith is mafia
Intend to hammer-
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VysePresident Mafia Scum
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Suzune Mafia Scum
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VysePresident Mafia Scum
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Suzune Mafia Scum
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