Mini 1710: A Midnight Sun -Game Over-


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Post Post #1275 (ISO) » Thu Oct 01, 2015 7:13 am

Post by VysePresident »

@Grapes - I'm about to head out to work, but I'll try & answer you quickly. The short of it is that Vedith was initially posting weak stuff that bugged me - A couple shallow Townreads, including Townreading his own darn slot, and bugged me on a few levels. (I disagreed with most of what he was saying at the time, albeit on a surface level.) The rest of his content was more just meh - saying stuff, but not offering me any meat to work with.

None of it was something I felt strongly about, but I figured that made him a better compromise lynch than Klingon at the time, based on my scumread of Elbirn. (At this point, I'd still rather lynch Elbirn than Klingon, but I'll compromise on either, because I want to finally get past this whole issue.) While I'm trending back towards my scumread on Elbirn, I'm

Mostly, I like his commentary as he's approaching a lynch - it's more thoughtful than before, in a way that resonates with me. I don't entirely agree with him - I kinda think you're Town over Null - but I can see him reaching that conclusion, and how he got there. Now, I'm well-aware that scum do last ditch stands, and can do them really well, but when I look at this whole lynch in perspective, it's not a good one. There's too much laziness on my part - not in how I read him at the time, but in my lack of follow-through - and there's too little actual meat here.

There's also the factor of how my reads are shifting - perhaps if I was still Townreading LQ strongly, I'd vote Vedith anyway, based on PoE. This is not the case anymore - I'm starting to think LQ has been coasting off of his 'weirdness', because he lacks much actual growth or rhythm to his reads & the like. He jumps wildly based on opinionated theories, which I suspect is Null for him, but even the most opinionated Townies I've come across rarely do semi-random resets & the like, and LQ's timing & direction of those resets has left me with a sour taste in my mouth.

As a side note, if we have a scum team strong enough to play optimally in this game, I'll be shocked. Everything I've seen indicates scum are either going to be playing 'characters' (if Klingon, LQ), or using basic misdirection stuff. (If Elbirn.) People defending Vedith, ironically, makes him more likely to be Town, in my opinion. I don't think most of the scum team would be comfortable defending one of their own. (Now that I've said this, the rules are going to be a little different, but up to this point? Yeah.)

Also, I'd have hammered Marcrell at that point. I fail to see this as being particularly alignment indicative at that point in time. (Maybe if Marcrell had flipped scum, I'd be worried about a potential bus, but he didn't, and I'm not.)

And yeah, you're willing to take a chance & all on Vedith, but then, you were dead set on lynching TownSoren/Myself in McNinja, sooooo.... :P
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Post Post #1276 (ISO) » Thu Oct 01, 2015 7:15 am

Post by VysePresident »

VysePresident wrote:While I'm trending back towards my scumread on Elbirn, I'm


*While I'm trending back towards my scumread on Elbirn, I'm at the point where I feel flipping one of the two would be more useful - and more likely scum - than Vedith.
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Post Post #1277 (ISO) » Thu Oct 01, 2015 1:41 pm

Post by 4nxi3ty »

"Yeah, yeah. Anyway we found Eleanor that dawn. Arms broken. She was cut deep along the shoulder blades, then laid down face up, with blood pooling outward along the arms and cradling the head."

(I shudder at the sight these recorded voices saw; the scene laid out before them as if to signify Icarus's own flight and fall, replacing melting wax-wings with the red melting of a human.)


"Bones were jammed into her eyesockets."

(From the remains I gathered in that abandoned town the bones (carpus, metacarpus, digits) were most likely from the wings and feet of birds.)


"A beak stabbed in her belly."

Vedith
(5)
- grapes, Elbirn, LicketyQuickety, Empoleon Bellapatre, Klingoncelt
Elbirn (2) - Firebringer, Vedith

Not voting: Suzune, BlankFace, VysePresident

With 10 players alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2015-10-05 19:05:44)


Empoleon Bellapatre has requested replacement, searching.
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Post Post #1278 (ISO) » Thu Oct 01, 2015 3:43 pm

Post by Klingoncelt »

In post 1270, Vedith wrote:
In post 1267, Klingoncelt wrote:You guys know that Town still has a resurrect, don't you? If Vedith flips Town we can bring him back.


You know that's a sample role and doesn't mean we will actually have it, right?


I think we do have it.

This isn't a super-common game on this site, so I think the role list is limited.
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Post Post #1279 (ISO) » Thu Oct 01, 2015 3:53 pm

Post by Klingoncelt »

Vyse, you're being just a little hypocritical here.

I let go of my stubbornness and re-evaluate my stances and that makes me either weak Town or Scum.

You change your reads and it's perfectly okay.

Pot/kettle.

And the lynch of your choice will magically give you information? No. Everyone who has ever said that was bullshitting. It's not alignment indicative, but it's absolutely bullshit. The only information we can get from any flip is if they flip Scum.
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Post Post #1280 (ISO) » Thu Oct 01, 2015 4:02 pm

Post by Klingoncelt »

In post 1275, VysePresident wrote:

... I don't think most of the scum team would be comfortable defending one of their own.


That statement bugs me.

This isn't a normal game. I don't see Scum bussing one of their own.

Not only is the game nightless, but it looks like a setup I've seen on another site (SC2) where Scum teams can win with each other but function separately. If that's the case there's no way they'd bus.
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Post Post #1281 (ISO) » Thu Oct 01, 2015 4:17 pm

Post by VysePresident »

In post 1279, Klingoncelt wrote:Vyse, you're being just a little hypocritical here.

I let go of my stubbornness and re-evaluate my stances and that makes me either weak Town or Scum.

You change your reads and it's perfectly okay.

Pot/kettle.

And the lynch of your choice will magically give you information? No. Everyone who has ever said that was bullshitting. It's not alignment indicative, but it's absolutely bullshit. The only information we can get from any flip is if they flip Scum.


Sort of, yeah. I'm frequently a hypocrite on some level or another. My problem is less that you're changing reads, and more that you don't have a lot of meat to dive into, and the stuff we have isn't great.

Really, I think it's Elbirn, and I'm a bit dismayed to see I'm
not
voting him when I thought I'd replaced the vote back on him. (I'll do that in a new post, just because I want it to be easy to see.)

I think Vedith's less likely to be scum than you are, so I'll lynch you over him. I also think it'd help me tomorrow, even if you flipped Town, because then I'm free to focus on Elbirn, LQ, and maybe EmpB. (She's more filler, but with my readslist being what it is, I'm okay with that.)

Fair? No, and I understand if you hate it. I'd rather not lynch you first. But if I have to choose between the two of you? It's not going to be Vedith.

Also, this isn't a normal game, and I don't expect scum to be happy-go-bussy on each other, but you'd be amazed how much scum paranoia screws them over. I've won games as Town because the scum were afraid of drawing attention to each other. (As in, one scum could have put me at L-1 to essentially win the game, and wanted to wait. They also bussed a teammate at a critical point.) I don't know if I've ever lynched scum without help from their scumbuddies.

Sorry if this is a bit rambly. I'm tired, as per usual, and it's starting to wear on me.
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Post Post #1282 (ISO) » Thu Oct 01, 2015 4:27 pm

Post by VysePresident »

Oh yes, did I mention I'm tired?

VOTE: Elbirn.
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Post Post #1283 (ISO) » Thu Oct 01, 2015 4:33 pm

Post by grapes »

In post 1275, VysePresident wrote:And yeah, you're willing to take a chance & all on Vedith, but then, you were dead set on lynching TownSoren/Myself in McNinja, sooooo.... :P

protip: if you're trying to discredit someone, choosing a game where they nail the scumteam day 1 is probably not the best choice :]

also, hammering without getting a claim is 1000% scum motivated, especially in a nightless where we lose nothing from no lynching
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Post Post #1284 (ISO) » Thu Oct 01, 2015 4:53 pm

Post by Klingoncelt »

Vedith, did you claim yet? You are L-1, you know.
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Post Post #1285 (ISO) » Thu Oct 01, 2015 5:15 pm

Post by Klingoncelt »

In post 1280, Klingoncelt wrote:
In post 1275, VysePresident wrote:

... I don't think most of the scum team would be comfortable defending one of their own.


That statement bugs me.

This isn't a normal game. I don't see Scum bussing one of their own.

Not only is the game nightless, but it looks like a setup I've seen on another site (SC2) where Scum teams can win with each other but function separately. If that's the case there's no way they'd bus.


*By "normal" I meant common, everyday, average, not Normal as in ruleset.
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Post Post #1286 (ISO) » Thu Oct 01, 2015 5:43 pm

Post by VysePresident »

In post 1283, grapes wrote:
In post 1275, VysePresident wrote:And yeah, you're willing to take a chance & all on Vedith, but then, you were dead set on lynching TownSoren/Myself in McNinja, sooooo.... :P

protip: if you're trying to discredit someone, choosing a game where they nail the scumteam day 1 is probably not the best choice :]

also, hammering without getting a claim is 1000% scum motivated, especially in a nightless where we lose nothing from no lynching


I forgot the Nightless part.

Hrm.
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Post Post #1287 (ISO) » Thu Oct 01, 2015 6:08 pm

Post by VysePresident »

I'm finding it weird you're just looking at Vedith when I did roughly the same thing in , Grapes. It wasn't officially the hammer, but

What do you think of LQ's ?

And if you nailed the scum team Day #1, my apologies for forgetting. I was more focused on what you were doing by the time I got into the game. :P

(Also, considering my own play that game, this is more teasing, and less discrediting. ;) )
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Post Post #1288 (ISO) » Thu Oct 01, 2015 6:08 pm

Post by VysePresident »

VysePresident wrote: It wasn't officially the hammer, but


*But it's effectively the same, isn't it?
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Post Post #1289 (ISO) » Thu Oct 01, 2015 6:24 pm

Post by Elbirn »

I'm elbirn and I am fleeing from the living horror that is a ~prod~
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Post Post #1290 (ISO) » Thu Oct 01, 2015 6:53 pm

Post by VysePresident »

Heh
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Post Post #1291 (ISO) » Thu Oct 01, 2015 7:23 pm

Post by Firebringer »

In post 1289, Elbirn wrote:I'm elbirn and I am fleeing from the living horror that is a ~prod~

Best prod dodge 2k15.

Except for this post. This post just beat that post.
Show
"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.

His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
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Post Post #1292 (ISO) » Thu Oct 01, 2015 7:42 pm

Post by Klingoncelt »

smh
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Post Post #1293 (ISO) » Thu Oct 01, 2015 11:39 pm

Post by Vedith »

In post 1284, Klingoncelt wrote:Vedith, did you claim yet? You are L-1, you know.


Oh, I'm just a basic human. No additional powers so I assume VT.
I claim scum \o/
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Post Post #1294 (ISO) » Fri Oct 02, 2015 8:41 am

Post by Suzune »

Sorry, my grandmother is in the hospital. I am having kind of a crazy week. So please bare with me as I catch up now. I apologize
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Post Post #1295 (ISO) » Fri Oct 02, 2015 9:27 am

Post by Suzune »

Okay time to think about this.

I gave Vedith a lot of credit coming in because he was replacing into a spot that I thought was town. That meant for me he was an easy town read. Reading all the posts on this topic it seems like there are some interesting cases for and against. While I agree that there are safer lynches then this. I can see where the value in this comes from. While he made several townie posts about wanting to know what people's read is I think that he has done little to move the game forward. He is always there and a constant poster but nothing wows me in the way that Morningsun once did. So this got me to thinking that perhaps Morning sun was just better at hiding their faction. They played a big game and were always leading in points and discussion. However this need to lead behavior could give them control over the flow of the game too, which in a game of this magnitude would give the mafia a lead.

Since he will only give his reads list when he gives them we have no going reads list to get something from expect for post 1024. So I have no idea about his postions at all. I feel like this might be kind of a risky choice for the town, but I think it is a reasonable conclusion that Vedith is mafia

Intend to hammer
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Post Post #1296 (ISO) » Fri Oct 02, 2015 12:24 pm

Post by VysePresident »

:/

Can we please lynch one of my preferred candidates next if he flips Town? Like, any of them, but preferably Elb or maybe LQ, I think.

If I"m wrong, I'll enjoy my crow, I guess.
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Post Post #1297 (ISO) » Fri Oct 02, 2015 1:43 pm

Post by Suzune »

This is not a bargaining system. We need to figure out who the mafia is.

VOTE: Vedith
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Post Post #1298 (ISO) » Fri Oct 02, 2015 2:55 pm

Post by VysePresident »

Mhm.

Doesn't mean I can't hope/pressure you guys. Hopefully getting burned twice might mean something
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Post Post #1299 (ISO) » Fri Oct 02, 2015 2:56 pm

Post by Suzune »

I am inclined to believe in you, Vyse. Let's hope for the best here~

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