Open 576: The Enemy of my Enemy is my...Enemy? (Day 2)


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Post Post #250 (ISO) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 1:34 pm

Post by Voidedmafia »

Votecount 2.01:

NJAC - Oilura
dragonspawn - 2birds, Mathdino
Oilura - Riabi, dragonspawn

Not Voting - NJAC, Nova, Clusk92, guille2015, Teen Girl

With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch and 5 to no-lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2014-11-12 21:47:01) or by 7:45 PM on November 12th, 2014.
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coming back to Mafia...slowly. Keep an eye for me as a mod.
Also keep an eye for setup review requests.
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Post Post #251 (ISO) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:35 pm

Post by Oilura »

In post 248, dragonspawn wrote:so oil, why did you open with a defense of the hammer before anyone posted?

I was replying to Mathdino.
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Post Post #252 (ISO) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:36 pm

Post by Oilura »

@mod: It isn't Night 1 anymore.
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Post Post #253 (ISO) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:37 pm

Post by 2birds1stone »

@Mod, Nova-Radiance prod?


Nova is probably scum by the way. Literally zero original content, and almost zero content altogether. Also actively admitted to intentionally waiting the early game out.
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Post Post #254 (ISO) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:40 pm

Post by Mathdino »

I was waiting for Oilura to respond just in case, didn't want to comment on dragonspawn just in case.

Your going after Oilura for opening with a defence is bull. Everyone freaked out about the hammer in twilight; if he DIDN'T open with a defence of the hammer, there'd have been bigger issues. Even if he thought there was nothing wrong with it, you're right, someone did chew her out.
The entire town.


Not sure what I think of Riabi agreeing with that case; I don't really want to FoS someone for being wrong. Can I vote DS again though?
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Post Post #255 (ISO) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:48 pm

Post by 2birds1stone »

In post 227, guille2015 wrote:I can't help noticing the feeling that there is a fabricated rivalry between Dragonspawn and TGS.
I'm not totally sure what this statement is meant to mean, but I'm curious as to where you're going with it.

P-EDIT: Holy shit I think I've played in this exact same game before.

Mathdino wrote:Your going after Oilura for opening with a defence is bull. Everyone freaked out about the hammer in twilight; if he DIDN'T open with a defence of the hammer, there'd have been bigger issues. Even if he thought there was nothing wrong with it, you're right, someone did chew her out.
The entire town.
I have to disagree. Town hammers because town believes town is entirely justified in and right to hammer. Coming into D2 with defence does not imply the "justified and right" mindset a townie ought to have cast hammer with, and it does ping.

At the same time, it is consistent with his mafia upbringing, specifically "everyone's playstyle is to NOT GET LYNCHED NO MATTER WHAT". Oilura in general is very difficult to read because of coming from a radically different meta.

Riabi leans town to me.
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Post Post #256 (ISO) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:53 pm

Post by Mathdino »

Lol, can you link us to that game?

What're your thoughts on how DS has responded to me last page?
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Post Post #257 (ISO) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:21 pm

Post by 2birds1stone »

Funny, I'd totally forgotten about Keybladewielder, though he works quite well as an Astinus (who am I kidding, nobody's as great as KBW)

dragonspawn's replies are all boring. He disagrees about NKA, but that's just being wrong. Everything else is just... words.
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Post Post #258 (ISO) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:27 pm

Post by 2birds1stone »

I'd find it interesting that dragonspawn and Oilura are not of the same alignment were I not already set on dspawn/TGS.

For those of you who aren't set on dspawn/TGS, it may be worth noting that dspawn/Oilura is extremely unlikely.
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Post Post #259 (ISO) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:33 pm

Post by Mathdino »

Subject: Newbie 1292: Class of '13 mafia. GAME OVER

Keybladewielder wrote:
In post 296, theamatuer wrote:
In post 295, Keybladewielder wrote:Didn't you get my Pms?

whats this about PMs


Umm what?

Oh god I love KBW xD. Played a game once with him in 2013 and about 3 people tried to policy him before he even posted. Luckily he replaced out.

Anyway, not sold on TGS yet; it's entirely possible DS purposefully buddied TGS to set up her lynch if DS goes.
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Post Post #260 (ISO) » Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:18 pm

Post by 2birds1stone »

In post 259, Mathdino wrote:Anyway, not sold on TGS yet; it's entirely possible DS purposefully buddied TGS to set up her lynch if DS goes.
It's not the buddying that does it for me though, it's the distancing from TGS.
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Post Post #261 (ISO) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 2:34 am

Post by guille2015 »

In post 255, 2birds1stone wrote:
In post 227, guille2015 wrote:I can't help noticing the feeling that there is a fabricated rivalry between Dragonspawn and TGS.
I'm not totally sure what this statement is meant to mean, but I'm curious as to where you're going with it.

Their interaction is visible but limited. It might be too early to tell though, but TGS (someone I am suspicious of) is interacting with DS with little to no followup. When somebody (2bird) mentions that DS could be scum, TGS agrees, but with the reason of DS buddying up to her, something I do not see. And It feels like TGS is distancing herself from DS as people become suspicious of him.

This of course is quite preliminary and I wanted to see if others see the same things as I do.

Considering that TGS spent the previous day concentrating on Astinus, keeps adding small questions here and there but I see no engagement from her to commit to other Scum reads, other than saying that DS is scummy and dropping it later.

I'm willing to lynch either of the two, but I'd rather lynch Dragonspawn first.
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Post Post #262 (ISO) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 2:46 am

Post by Mathdino »

Why are you not voting?
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Post Post #263 (ISO) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 3:24 am

Post by guille2015 »

I have no hurry.
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Post Post #264 (ISO) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 3:52 am

Post by dragonspawn »

Am I buddying teen girl or in a rivalry or setting her up? I find maths dense of oilura. Interesting. Is that why you are gunning for me? You mad that I'm going at your partner?
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Post Post #265 (ISO) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 3:53 am

Post by dragonspawn »

In post 262, Mathdino wrote:Why are you not voting?


trying to rush a lynch?
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Post Post #266 (ISO) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 4:01 am

Post by guille2015 »

In post 264, dragonspawn wrote:Am I buddying teen girl or in a rivalry or setting her up? I find maths dense of oilura. Interesting. Is that why you are gunning for me? You mad that I'm going at your partner?

I think you were creating a rivalry earlier on. I never agreed to the other two positions. I think my position is pretty clear.

I don't know what "I find math's dense of Oilura" means.

Who do you think is scum Dragonspawn?
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Post Post #267 (ISO) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 4:05 am

Post by Mathdino »

In post 264, dragonspawn wrote:Am I buddying teen girl or in a rivalry or setting her up? I find maths dense of oilura. Interesting. Is that why you are gunning for me? You mad that I'm going at your partner?

In post 265, dragonspawn wrote:trying to rush a lynch?

^These are among the worst lines of loaded questioning I've ever seen. If you want to know my motivation behind something, you can just ask.

1. All 3. You've displayed very clear awkward interactions toward TGS which involve both buddying and distancing. This is scummy behaviour. However, IMO, given TGS's fairly townish D2 behaviour, I think it's possible you're attaching yourself to her so we lynch her if you flip scum.
2. If you read my case, you'll see why I'm gunning for you.
3. Please elaborate on why you think I'm scum with Oilura.
4. No, but disparity between reads and where one places their vote is off, so I asked a question about his motivation BEFORE I assumed he was trying to avoid being on a wagon or something. If you get to L-1 prematurely, I'll unvote. Ya know. Just like I did with Astinus.

Feel like expanding on your D1 suspicions of me instead of twisting everything I've done D2 to look scummy?

Edit: I second the above question.
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Post Post #268 (ISO) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:11 am

Post by Teen Girl Squad »

All right, finally have some time to go through this game again and get a lil more engaged.

Kind of suspicious of 2birds, on re-reading. I brought this up when it happened, too, but this post still really rubs me the wrong way:

In post 42, 2birds1stone wrote:UNVOTE:
VOTE: Astinus

Scum? Probably not, but it's as good a place to start as any.


When I asked him about it, 2birds gave a fairly detailed description of why he thought Astinus was town, and basically described his vote as a policy lynch. To me, that looks like distancing himself from a wagon he wasn't sure about.

2birds also threw some shade at Mathdino for his early unvote on the Astinus wagon (unless I'm mistaken, I think that got to L-2 or possibly L-1 on page 3 or so), and one post in particular towards him really pings my scumdar:

In post 106, 2birds1stone wrote:
In post 104, Mathdino wrote:Lynching Astinus right now, even if she's confirmed scum, helps no one but the other scumteam.
I'm not sure I like your certainty in the face of this level of craziness. Any claim that amounts to "I'm not town" obviously needs to be lynched, but I have no idea how anyone can be as confident as you are.


This is such a wishy-washy post. "I don't like your confidence in Astinus's alignment, but we should definitely lynch Astinus, who I didn't think was scum last page, but also I don't like your confidence."

In the same post, 2birds re-voted for Astinus, and said that he didn't find any other people unvoting Astinus suspicious.

---

Hey, guille, you mentioned early-ish during the Astinus fiasco that you felt she wasn't scum:

In post 76, guille2015 wrote:There are things here that makes me doubt that she is scum however. But I don't see town in her either, unlike what Mastin sees.


But you never explained why. Care to give some details now?

---

Forgive me if this has been brought up already, but what I think is most suspicious about dragonspawn is that he seems to be echoing people a lot. There was echoing of previous sentiments about Astinus when he was voting her, echoing previous sentiments about Mastin's posts when he voted her.

Also, I forget if I mentioned it already, but this post is just terrible:

In post 109, dragonspawn wrote:I am inclined to agree that we don't benefit from a quick lynch. Let's keep the discussion going and get catch some scum for a good lynch day two. Especially if astinus somehow turns out to be town. The more discussion we keep going the more likely we will be to find the scum.


"Let's keep discussion going. Just in case I'm wrong about this wagon I'm sitting on while not discussing anything else."

What I'm most interested in, though, is dragonspawn's early townread of 2birds.

---

Clusk has been pretty quiet, and didn't say much D1 that didn't concern Astinus.

Clusk, you mentioned when you voted Astinus that you didn't buy the "too scummy to be scum" argument that a few people (2birds in particular) were putting out there. Now that Astinus has turned out town after all, how do you feel about 2birds?

---

I'm still suspicious of dragonspawn's play, but I'm much more suspicious of 2birds.

VOTE: 2birds1stone

Still need to catch up on the last two pages or so, but from what I can see Nova's still lurking hard, which is not great.

Oh, and side note, because it was brought up:

In post 249, Riabi wrote:(her? them? does it matter to you TGS?)


It doesn't matter to me, you can use whatever pronouns you want :P
and i kind of like confusing people anyway
Listen up, you undapants.


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Post Post #269 (ISO) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:18 am

Post by Teen Girl Squad »

In post 90, dragonspawn wrote:pretty good argument concerning the biggest anti town usually being town since scum won't take that chance. Can we take that chance?

all and all I'm thinking bird comes across as town to me.


Here's dragonspawn's townread of 2birds I mentioned earlier. He agrees that Astinus is acting too scummy to be scum and townreads 2birds for it, but later votes Astinus anyway. It's just strange to me.

Dragon, what are your thoughts on 2birds now?
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Post Post #270 (ISO) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:51 am

Post by guille2015 »

In post 268, Teen Girl Squad wrote:

Hey, guille, you mentioned early-ish during the Astinus fiasco that you felt she wasn't scum:

In post 76, guille2015 wrote:There are things here that makes me doubt that she is scum however. But I don't see town in her either, unlike what Mastin sees.


But you never explained why. Care to give some details now?


I always consider voting for yourself in RVS to be a Null statement. The important thing is what you do with what comes after it. I've seen it use as a way to get out of RVS rather quickly and when it is used this way, it usually came from town players. However this was not the case for Astinus as her response was, I was told it was a good thing. It is clear now that she really didn't know why she did it. For the most part when a player does something to call forth the attention of the player-base, it is with the intention of getting reads. At the time I also went and did my research on her games and saw similarly misguided plays. However, the idea that she did not unvote was one of the things that made me question her motives.
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Post Post #271 (ISO) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:53 am

Post by Nova-Radiance »

So you'd have me post random bullshit to produce original content? I'll just disregard the excellent points that influenced my reads, to be original.

Now I'm curious, would you have me not vote for someone who said the person they were voting was probably not scum, or not vote at all?

Like Mathdino pointed out, the phrase "don't look at me" is extremely defensive, and the way dragonspawn pushed some attention back to him instead of defending himself is suspicious.

TGS in post #244 saying that she finds the fact people are going after something that was scummy just because it was in RVS. Doing something scummy is indicative of scum no matter when it's done, and the fact you are calling it suspicious that they're bringing up that evidence against you bothers me.
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Post Post #272 (ISO) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 12:29 pm

Post by Mathdino »

Ooh, I like Nova's playstyle, but I'm not sure I like Nova-for-town. Will respond more at computer.

Want more activity than me and 2birds vs DS vs TGS pl0x.
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Post Post #273 (ISO) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 12:51 pm

Post by 2birds1stone »

There's absolutely no contradiction or wishy-washiness in "Astinus is probably town but we need to lynch him anyway". I'm a very pro-PL player.

I also apologize for being wrong about Mathdino's alignment early-game.

TGS just started pushing against me because I picked her dspawn's buddy, dragonspawn flip will bear this out.

In post 271, Nova-Radiance wrote:So you'd have me post random bullshit to produce original content? I'll just disregard the excellent points that influenced my reads, to be original.
Indignation reads town, even if it's not actually a good post.
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Post Post #274 (ISO) » Tue Nov 04, 2014 3:40 pm

Post by Nova-Radiance »

Unfortunately despite searching the thread I can't seem to find the post, but at some point Oilura pointed out inactives with (scum). I don't think Oilura has really commented on any of our current player discussion, Oilura seems more concerned with covering himself than contributing.

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