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Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 2:18 am
by T S O
Slandaar, that's a rather weak refutation.

Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 2:24 am
by Nero Cain
In post 6374, Slandaar wrote:I would like an answer Nero.

the remaining scum are you, pine and Boons. I believe that Boons is your buddy 'cause he's calling you wolf yet is avoiding lynching you at all costs.

Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 2:25 am
by T S O
Nero, what do you think of Thor's/my set-up theory?

Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 2:28 am
by Nero Cain
the one about that how one of thor/boons/I had to be scum 'cause mafia has a spy too? if not then give me a post number.

Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 2:29 am
by T S O
In post 6302, Thor665 wrote:
In post 6299, T S O wrote:One of Thor or Boon has to be scum, and here's why:

There are 3 Neighbourhoods -
5 player - Anen, goodmorning, Izariael, Shiro, Boon
4p - Scripten, dave, TSO, Nero
3p - Egg, Thor, Pere

I don't think that both the 5 -and- the 3 player hoods were all town. One of Thor and Boon is scum.

:neutral:

Here's a more interesting thought and why I am currently thinking Pine is not Mafia.

There are 2 flipped Mafia - 0 neighbors.
There is 1 flipped Wolf - 1 neighbor.

I am currently suggesting that the unflipped mafia (who is likely a Goon as is the flipped Wolf) is a Neighbor - as Mafia currently lacks a neighbor.
Ergo - people who are not neighbors are not the last Mafia.

Thoughts?

In post 6311, T S O wrote:There can only be max one Mafia neighbour, so it makes sense there can only be one Wolf neighbour. And that was Scripten.

So. everyone in the hoods are now clean ...?

In post 6312, T S O wrote:Well, that would make it Pine/Slandaar.

Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 2:36 am
by Nero Cain
meh?

What I'm thinking right now is that mafia had no one in the hoods and here's why I think that: Boons is the scummist player in the hoods. Boons is either Slandaar's buddy or or doing a p good job of making me think he's his buddy. Wich faction still has buddies? the wolfs.

If the wolves had spies in both hoods it would make sense for Slandaar to say "ignore the hoods" or whatever he said 'cause he knew his buddies were there.

Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:27 am
by Thor665
In post 6372, Slandaar wrote:What is it about the 'gamestate' I should be commenting on?

Well...Pine's claim of Mafia was kind of a thing, followed by his claim that it was a gambit - a lot of people found that worth commenting on and I'm not even sure if you're aware it happened because you didn't.
Then there was my game setup spec - and the reactions to it.
Nero's power lurk.
Boon's case logic.
Nero's case clearing TSO of Wolf.
Thor's case clearing Nero of Wolf.
TSO's case clearing himself of Mafia.
Mod meta.

Y'know - 'the game'? That stuff - comments on it would have been/are nice.
Is this really so confusing that you need to ask for clarification on the concept? That is weird. Why did you need to ask this? <--- really want an answer, not rhetorical.

In post 6372, Slandaar wrote:Why did you decide not to respond to this;

Because your line of questioning is boring to me and appears to be going nowhere. i have indicated this thought to you in at least the last three or so rounds of your questioning - that last wall broke the camel's back as it were. It was of no interest to me at all to dance anymore.

In post 6372, Slandaar wrote:? Perhaps you could.

Please consider this an intentional dodge and react accordingly.

In post 6372, Slandaar wrote:It looks nice and symmetrical I will give you that but I am town and with this information the symmetry breaks.

So - please walk me through your alternate theory. Do you think Wolves had multiple neighbors and/or that Mafia had no neighbors? You seem to think I'm a wolf, that would give wolves 2x neighbors (and a mirrored roleblock of some extent unless you are claiming my PR as a lie) so why not discuss what your concept of the teams are in that mindset?

In post 6372, Slandaar wrote:It just so happens you can make a nice looking pattern with what has and hasn't flipped but do you actually believe they are useful Thor? I suspect no.

Why do you suspect no?

In post 6380, Nero Cain wrote:What I'm thinking right now is that mafia had no one in the hoods and here's why I think that: Boons is the scummist player in the hoods. Boons is either Slandaar's buddy or or doing a p good job of making me think he's his buddy. Wich faction still has buddies? the wolfs.

I see and understand the odd Pine/Thor obsession that makes Boon look like he's protecting someone who isn't Pine/Thor.
But, as a serious question, would you expect more sensible logic from Boon if he had a town alignment?
If the answer is 'yes' - why?
If the answer is 'no' - then how does this point really suggest Slandaar as scum?


I'd still really like to hear anyone's case clearing Slandaar of being a scumbuddy to any of the flipped scum.
@Slandaar - I would love to hear that question fielded by you also, if you can. Yes/no?

Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 5:06 am
by Boonskiies
@Nero - I could ask you the same the regarding to Pine. It feels as if you are doing EVERYTHING you can to try and get focus off of Pine.

Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 5:57 am
by Slandaar
In post 6375, T S O wrote:Slandaar, that's a rather weak refutation.

What response did you expect?

If we assume random (as you should) then all these pretty patterns are meaningless.

Making the pretty patterns is bad, considering them as anything but pretty patterns is... bad.

Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 5:58 am
by Slandaar
In post 6376, Nero Cain wrote:the remaining scum are you, pine and Boons. I believe that Boons is your buddy 'cause he's calling you wolf yet is avoiding lynching you at all costs.

Reasons are required.

Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 6:03 am
by Boonskiies
Why do the we have to assume the neighborhoods are random? I guess it's really the only argument a wolf has at this point.

Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 6:08 am
by T S O
Aegor pointedly refused to tell me if they were random or not.

That makes me lean towards not-random.

Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 6:32 am
by Thor665
That's a bit tin-foil, though I follow the logic. Really the way a Mod should answer all setup spec questions is with 'I can't say' though - no other answer is apropos.

@Slandaar - would you care to discuss my note about role names and my theory of how it supports non-randomness?
Also - do you have any evidence that suggests you are not associated with either or both scum teams you could share?

Also, honestly, any thoughts you have on the following list would be nice;

Then there was my game setup spec - and the reactions to it.
Nero's power lurk.
Boon's case logic.
Nero's case clearing TSO of Wolf.
Thor's case clearing Nero of Wolf.
TSO's case clearing himself of Mafia.
Mod meta.

Also - Claim time - you should do it unless you'd like to explain to me how this isn't lylo for town.

Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 7:09 am
by Slandaar
In post 6385, Boonskiies wrote:Why do the we have to assume the neighborhoods are random? I guess it's really the only argument a wolf has at this point.

OK I am town.

What other argument is there against the pattern?

You should assume they are random because that is what you should always do there is no reason to believe they are not.

Do you actually think the mod would put 4/6 scum outside the hoods in 8 players? clearly that can be broken later. Maybe by random chance it happens but seems terrible to do otherwise and in the situation that did happen via random rolls you are right using wrong methodology. Thus we assume random, we always assume random and we scumhunt ignoring the hoods and flips in them.

Here is a pretty pattern I shall present to you:

Neighbours
Script
Thor
Boon

all wolves 1 in each hood.

Non neighbours
Pine
Flubber
Reinoe

All mafia.

Now we have two pretty patterns.

Present an argument against my pattern Boon.

Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 7:15 am
by Thor665
In post 6387, Thor665 wrote:That's a bit tin-foil, though I follow the logic. Really the way a Mod should answer all setup spec questions is with 'I can't say' though - no other answer is apropos.

@Slandaar - would you care to discuss my note about role names and my theory of how it supports non-randomness?
Also - do you have any evidence that suggests you are not associated with either or both scum teams you could share?

Also, honestly, any thoughts you have on the following list would be nice;

Then there was my game setup spec - and the reactions to it.
Nero's power lurk.
Boon's case logic.
Nero's case clearing TSO of Wolf.
Thor's case clearing Nero of Wolf.
TSO's case clearing himself of Mafia.
Mod meta.

Also - Claim time - you should do it unless you'd like to explain to me how this isn't lylo for town.

@Slandaar - if you're intentionally not answering, claiming, and offering thoughts - please let me know. I give you that courtesy and I expect the same.

Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 7:23 am
by Pine
In post 6376, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 6374, Slandaar wrote:I would like an answer Nero.

the remaining scum are you, pine and Boons. I believe that Boons is your buddy 'cause he's calling you wolf yet is avoiding lynching you at all costs.

Then you should be voting Boon. He's bulletproof, and can't be crosskilled

Wolf Neighbors vs Mafia Power would be an interesting balance

Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 7:24 am
by Thor665
In post 6390, Pine wrote:Wolf Neighbors vs Mafia Power would be an interesting balance

If that was the balance, and I was a Wolf, I would hate the mod.

Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 7:26 am
by Pine
That doesn't make it balanced. Neighbors plus 1-shot powers would make sense

Oh wait. You claimed a 1-shot

Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 8:03 am
by Boonskiies
Is Slandaar still not claiming? :roll:

Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 8:04 am
by Boonskiies
@slandaar - that's great, but Pine's not mafia.

Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 8:37 am
by Thor665
In post 6392, Pine wrote:That doesn't make it balanced. Neighbors plus 1-shot powers would make sense

Oh wait. You claimed a 1-shot

That would make me Mafia by your current theory - though no other Mafia had 1-shot powers. So what are you even arguing right now?

Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 8:39 am
by Thor665
Oh, wait, no. You're claiming I, and my wolf partner, are 1-shot neighbors, and all wolves are neighbors, vs. Mafia who none of them are 1-shot or Neighbors.
Is that right?

Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 8:46 am
by Slandaar
In post 6393, Boonskiies wrote:Is Slandaar still not claiming? :roll:

400 posts ago when we 'all' claimed;
In post 5959, Slandaar wrote:I'm a VT.

What is it I need to claim for again exactly?

Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 8:47 am
by Slandaar
In post 6389, Thor665 wrote:@Slandaar - if you're intentionally not answering,

Intend to address some of it at some point.

Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 8:48 am
by Slandaar
In post 6394, Boonskiies wrote:@slandaar - that's great, but Pine's not mafia.

Why?