Mafiascum.net

In post 506, Aneninen wrote:@PeregrineV. Because of your catchup and your early reactions I "MissMarpled" you scum. Your list (501) contains quite a few strange things. Eg. Boonskiies is probably scum with no explanation. Goodmorning is leaning scum because she's "icky". Izariael: "high expectations expected"? Thinking that TSO is town that'swhy he's probably scum. Thor is scummy because he was calling the multiball. Toby is null-scum because of...?

Boon- Yes. Willing to hear why you think he is town.

Goodmoring is icky. Yes. It starts with 32 and 34. All smack-attack on Csar for asking the claimed reviver if he can self-revive.
Nothing to Tiershift for claiming or fakeclaiming or anything.
Nothing to Muffin about claiming or fakeclaiming or anything.
Nothing to Cho about claiming scum or anything.
Over half his posts are Csar triades about Csar responses to goodmonring posts about a role that goodmonring thinks Tiershift does not have.
No vote. For anyone. Throughout any of it.
How does that make sense for town to spend so much time on?

Izreal, covered twice, posts linked to at least twice.

TSO- I know my own limitations. Reading TSO correctly may be one of them. Any reason I should lie about that?

Thor- also covered. You want specifics ask specific questions.

Toby is nullscum because the styling of some of her posts I think is town, but their delivery and followup are not there. It's like a one-way questioning but I don't think I've seen responses to the responses to her questions. Slight null-scum, but waiting for a strong read to pop.

(To "MissMarple" – I read an X player in a game. His/her gameplay was/is very similar to an Y player's one in another game. Y flipped alignment A. Therefore, X is probably A too. "MissMarple-ing" is one of the very few ideas of mine which has been working so far. In this case, X=PeregrineV, A=scum. His readlist confirmed my read anyway.)

Just so we are clear, my readlist confirms that you think I am scum. And since you didn't say it, I'm going to note it as you disagree with the reads you questioned.

In post 514, Muffin wrote:This is specious logic and you know it.

I'm questioning your vote because it was a shitty vote, and the implication that I'm scum defending my buddy Scripten is just a transparent attempt to fling shit at the wall and see what sticks.

You think the vote was shitty because it was on Scripten, or because I sheeped Izreal? You are distinctly unlcear about the details, so I call it like I see it- you questioning the vote on Scripten.

In post 515, T S O wrote:

In post 512, PeregrineV wrote:

In post 510, T S O wrote:

In post 507, PeregrineV wrote:

In post 502, Garmr wrote:

In post 501, PeregrineV wrote:9. Garmr- probably town.

This is new this is the first game you ever town read me.

Yeah, TSO too. And not Thor. Whole world is upside-down.

I thought you were townreading me in Marvel Avengers Alliance?

Looking back (since it was before the summer), I think you weren't town so much as you weren't as scummy as everyone else. At least that's what I got looking back at my own posts.

This time my read is purely based on nothing but your posts.

Am I right?

Ehh, probably. I guess being townread by proxy is a bit different to actually being townread independently here,

Yes, you are townier than scum-Bulba, town-Smarg, and obstinate-Thor.

In post 516, T S O wrote:What's your read on Aneninen?

Having done a brief read-through of Aneninen's iso I didn't really get any pings. I find him pretty annoying with the stupid pigeon shit, always trying to be funny and ingratiating, but then wondering why people think he's a VI and worrying about getting WOTC'd later. Judging by his join date, it's an attempt to fit in (if he's not an alt) and the pigeon crap points to him being a high-schooler who thinks it's funny.

As for his alignment in this game? I don't think I could call him scum (though I'd like to), but he's not really townie either. I have trouble reading newbies, because a lot of his content is pretty hollow and seems like it won't go anywhere, but then I remember that I'm not super pro at this game either, and when I was a newbie I had no fucking idea what I was doing.

Still, I'd gladly YOLO-hammer him though, if he was at L-1.

@Toby. I checked it and it was 246. Now I remember. I thought we had nothing else to talk about at that time.
As for the Nero-read. 'Till that point he was mostly null, as far as I can remember though I didn't understand his case against you, Toby. The case didn't improve later (eg. 378). 379 looks like as if he had a read on TSO but there's no real content there. No other content, as far as I can see. He might be a lurking scum or a kind of player who only focuses on certain things. I'd really like to see more content from him.

@Everyone
By the way, I have an idea. It's clear that due to the sheer size of the setup, not everyone are interacting with each other. Would it be useful if I tried to make a "graph" about the interaction frequency?

Post-edit: too many new posts. I'll read them soon.

Peregrine, this young whippersnapper believes in you! Don't doubt yourself! You can do it! Insert motivational mantra of choice here!

But really, let's talk about Toby. You're talking about lack of response, but isn't that more an experience/proficiency argument rather than coming from scum?

Yes.

If I were to switch votes this moment it would be on goodmorning or Anen. Gut scum on Anen, but I think my issues regarding goodmorning when I expressed my issues with her Csareo interaction have a stronger backing to it.

, sure.

In post 529, Aneninen wrote:
By the way, I have an idea. It's clear that due to the sheer size of the setup, not everyone are interacting with each other. Would it be useful if I tried to make a "graph" about the interaction frequency?

Where does this go after you make it?

I mean, are you going to use it to make conclusions about something? How do you distinguish between lurking town and lurking town? Is overtalking a bad trait? Are there criteria for scumminess within the graph?

Are you sure you can do actually anything with this? Because if you're not, I'd rather you actually played the game.

@Pere
This is the first time in a while someone's actually been on the same wavelength as me. It's feels sooooo goooood as people are usually telling me I'm wrong even when I'm right. But that being said I kinda feel like thor is town, I do share this uneasiness about goodmorning as I don't were to place her because of how cautious she is playing and finally I don't like the way Aneninen handled the way I pushed on boonskies by trying to disprove my points yet being unable to, ending up saying I don't agree with you. It just felt like a failed chainsaw attempt for boon.


@goodmorning

Just curious why vote now and not earlier. You mention people earlier you feel uneasy about but didn't really push on them. I don't really understand a reason to hold back your vote if you find someone suspicious?

If you don't like Aneninen, try using your vote. I hear all the cool kids are doing it these days.

In post 517, TobyLoby wrote:

In post 501, PeregrineV wrote:11. Goofyd00d- Early scumvibes. Some of the things he says are contradictions in and of themselves. (295 and 455 are examples)

I don't see the contradiction between these two posts. The one one he says he tends to fly under the radar when there is a lot of action. The second post he says he sucks when there is a lot of activity.

So when others post a lot, expect less from him, or him to not be as good. When others slow down on posting, he gets better, and posts more, but then all that extra posting is increased activity, so he gets bad again....or something. Not down with the pre-excuses for bad play, seems like scum setting up to slough off any scrutiny.

I've heard of the multiball tell. I've seen it once applied and used before successfully on scum, and I've used it as scum to try and lynch town working on the assumption. So it's all over the place for me. I especially don't know what to think of it when someone outright says it.

Not a tell so much as not really a way for town to know it at this point. We use NKs to figure killing roles (mafia, SK, vig), so anything else is either hidden knowledge or unnecessary distraction.

In post 534, T S O wrote:If you don't like Aneninen, try using your vote. I hear all the cool kids are doing it these days.

Well I would, but my vote's on my top scumread atm.

In post 536, Muffin wrote:

In post 534, T S O wrote:If you don't like Aneninen, try using your vote. I hear all the cool kids are doing it these days.

Well I would, but my vote's on my top scumread atm.

That's fair enough. I was talking more to Garmr.

I might talk to you about your Anen read a bit when I have time - that's not now. Probs tomorrow.

In post 519, T S O wrote:

In post 516, T S O wrote:What's your read on Aneninen?

Light Townread.

In post 525, PeregrineV wrote:How does that make sense for town to spend so much time on?

Makes plenty of sense given that I now have a firm townread on the slot.

In post 529, Aneninen wrote:@Everyone
By the way, I have an idea. It's clear that due to the sheer size of the setup, not everyone are interacting with each other. Would it be useful if I tried to make a "graph" about the interaction frequency?

Probably not, but if it's something you want to do then by all means. I just don't think it would really help.

Later, when a Scum is flipped, that sort of thing would be quite useful. Currently? Probably just distraction.


Currently I am reaction testing someone. We'll see how that goes.


P-EDIT:

In post 533, Garmr wrote:@goodmorning
Just curious why vote now and not earlier. You mention people earlier you feel uneasy about but didn't really push on them. I don't really understand a reason to hold back your vote if you find someone suspicious?

I like this question.

I was primarily focused on reading Csareo since he was responding to questions and I could play off the TSO thing.
As far as mentioning my uneasiness on people: one irrelevant post or off gut read does not a good vote make.
I've found I can have difficulty in Larges due to sheer scope of the playerlist, so mentioning people I'm uncomfortable with is a new thing I'm trying; I should be able to put my focus where I want it and look back to see where I was uncomfortable with AND NOTICED someone in the past.
It's also a good way to mark things I may want to pursue at a later date.

@Goodmorning Of course it hurts to confirm it. A neighborhood is five people who can talk with each other without everyone else knowing about it, even at night. They are a threat to scum in late game, because once the pile of people is narrowed down, then there could still be two or three people in there, some even confirmed. So by outing yourself right away, you're directly hurting the towns chances.

Still reading...


Alright. This game is exhausting.

I've read only up to 10 so far. Sorry. Working on more. Here they are.

But first.

In post 490, TobyLoby wrote:
I can safely say that commentary on leaving the game, saying what to a self-vote and probable fake claim, and making to/too corrections is irrelevant.

I can safely say that after reading 10 pages, all five of your fluff posts have been irrelevant as well. Let's see if we can hit ten by the time I'm caught up.

----

In post 128, Muffin wrote:VOTE: csareo

Starting it off with a naked vote. Good.

In post 146, Csareo wrote:I'm not jumping down the meta chute with you. Can you answer my question?

TSO, if you have town read me the entire game, why do you still have a vote on me?

Actually, you are. You have literally been preaching to us about how deep you've studied the god that is TSO. Tell me how you're "not jumping down the meta chute"?

In post 175, Csareo wrote:Without being super indicative, I have an idea of why TSO may be so threatened by me.

The "Without being super indicative is rubbing me the wrong way. You're saying "without taking an actual stance". Fence sitting is never a good choice.

In post 210, Csareo wrote:I can kind of envision Nero's actions as being scummy.

My other top reads

are GM and

TSO

.

I'll take my vote off of TSO once he answers my questions.

TSO is one of your top reads, but you'll take your vote off of him just because he answers your question? How does that make any sense?

Basically, you're sometimes saying TSO is scum, sometimes he's not. Later, you're even saying that you're trying to get off the wagon. Is it because you've decided that people won't follow you, or what? Why are you flipfloppy?

---

Still have like 11 to go. TSO flipped from being cool and jokey to aggressive and angry on a dime, there. Czar-yoyo is flip floppy too, but he's sort of screaming newbtown who did a lot of reading before this game started, or at least he was for a bit. Now his posts sort of put him back on Null.

The interaction graph sounds like a lot of work, and not sure what it reveals. Really bad style clashes can overshadow alignment to the point to make scumhunting difficult. Scum can hide in them, and town can be confused by them. Even a small group totally avoiding each other doesn't necessarily mean anything. In a game this large it's entirely possible that some players just don't have time to interact with every other player.

pedit: I like the way this game is picking up speed. For a while there it seemed to have stalled. Especially good to hear from slots which had been silent.

I would like to know, for my own scumhunting purposes, which players are in a neighbourhood with which others.

Because sometimes neighbourhoods result in weird coordination that can look like a scumteam but is not.

So... yeah.

@Muffin, 521 – I think it's a great summary about PeregrineV.

@Toby, 523 – That was answered while I was reading this. So, do you scumread Goodmorning because of her interactions with Csareo?

@PeregrineV, 525 – Yes, I disagree with most of your reads. I haven't got a solid read on Boonskiies at all. I got surprised that you have. Goodmorning and Tiershift are town according to my reads. I've also started to develop a townread on Muffin too, see above. Cho is a big question mark (by the way, she's a she). I checked one game randomly and she got lynched on Day1 as a townie. As for Izariael, what does "high expectations expected" mean? TSO is scum. I've already written about him. I might add: he keeps asking everyone about me but he hadn't provided a real case against me. ("This post is a trash" or whatever is not a real case.) Thor is very town and so as Toby, in my opinion. And yes, you're my strongest scumread. My vote is for you too.

@Muffin, 528 – I'm much older. Also, see my other post about the topic. And I've been WotC-ed once by someone who got annoyed and left the game just because I misread him/her. The WotC happened before the game in question ended. I strongly think that the same person tried to WotC me out of another game despite the fact that I signed up for that game before him/her. I want to have fun but it seems that some players are taking Mafia too seriously (or in an idiotic way?). But I don't want to spoil others' games. If a thing like that has been enough for a WotC what would happen if someone got annoyed by me for something much mor serious?

TSO, 529 + Goodmorning (a later post) + Davesaz (another post) – That was just an idea. Perhaps for a later game-phase, for analysing interactions with a flipped scum (or town)? My intuition says that a graph like that would reveal something. I wish I knew what. And I wouldn't post a graph on Day1. That would only give ideas for the scums.

In post 537, T S O wrote:

In post 536, Muffin wrote:

In post 534, T S O wrote:If you don't like Aneninen, try using your vote. I hear all the cool kids are doing it these days.

Well I would, but my vote's on my top scumread atm.

That's fair enough. I was talking more to Garmr.

I might talk to you about your Anen read a bit when I have time - that's not now. Probs tomorrow.

Boon skies is my top scumread but Aneninen is a close 2nd. I would really prefer if you jumped on the boon wagon with me.

In post 521, Muffin wrote:The simple facts are:

• by your own statement you couldn't have had a scumread on scripten when you voted because you hadn't read the game and you parked your vote there while you caught up

Yes.

Then, after catching up you:

• didn't try to convince anyone else to join you on that wagon
  
• didn't show any reasoning as to why Scripten is scum
  
• didn't post any analysis of Scripten's posts to highlight scum motivation for his posts

• No, and still haven't.
  
• Nope. It was entierly sheeping of Izreal + "17. Scripten- early scumvibes. Some wording makes me wonder.392- A vote on him for "town cred" can only be town cred if Scripten is scum. Stuff like that keeps me from calling you town."+ 500
  
• Why would I? At this point I'm arguing I don't have a town read on him, he gave me early scumvibes, and I find the interest in him interesting in and of itself. You tell me why he's town and maybe we'll debate the finer points.

Then, when called on your shitty vote by me you:

• tried to paint my attack on your shitty vote as a chainsaw defense of scripten
  
• posted a big giant reads list stretching something scripten wrote to fit your pre-existing vote

• I think I asked why it was shitty. Missed your answer. Link please.
  
• As stated, was in the middle of my reads list when I posted 500. My Scripten read while writing the list was as stated. My interest has gone up since.

I'm not sure how any of those things come from a town frame of mind.

pedit I don't have a read on aninen i will iso them and get back to you

I guess when you do an analysis of my posts you can highlight my scum motivation.

In post 529, Aneninen wrote:@Everyone
By the way, I have an idea. It's clear that due to the sheer size of the setup, not everyone are interacting with each other. Would it be useful if I tried to make a "graph" about the interaction frequency?

I like crap like this, so if you have the time/ability, I say go for it.

@Aneninen Yea, that'd be cool. It'd take forever though.

In post 542, Aneninen wrote:@PeregrineV, 525 – Yes, I disagree with most of your reads. I haven't got a solid read on Boonskiies at all. I got surprised that you have. Goodmorning and Tiershift are town according to my reads. I've also started to develop a townread on Muffin too, see above. Cho is a big question mark (by the way, she's a she). I checked one game randomly and she got lynched on Day1 as a townie. As for Izariael, what does "high expectations expected" mean? TSO is scum. I've already written about him. I might add: he keeps asking everyone about me but he hadn't provided a real case against me. ("This post is a trash" or whatever is not a real case.) Thor is very town and so as Toby, in my opinion. And yes, you're my strongest scumread. My vote is for you too.

Boon- Then analyze what you got on Boon.

goodmorning, Tier, Muffin, Cho- OK

Izariael- Check out her posting in the linked Newbie game.

TSO- So did I. As for lack of real cases, welcome to the club.

Thor- yeah, maybe. He's mostly town in my games and I always want to read hiim as town but we sometimes think so opposite it's hard to keep him there, and he becomes a scumread. That only helped in one game (where he was scum). So, yeah, pushing this one off for now.

Toby- the fact that any responses to Toby are not further responded to by Toby doesn't matter? It's like they don't care about the answer.

In post 538, goodmorning wrote:


P-EDIT:

In post 533, Garmr wrote:@goodmorning
Just curious why vote now and not earlier. You mention people earlier you feel uneasy about but didn't really push on them. I don't really understand a reason to hold back your vote if you find someone suspicious?

I like this question.

I was primarily focused on reading Csareo since he was responding to questions and I could play off the TSO thing.
As far as mentioning my uneasiness on people: one irrelevant post or off gut read does not a good vote make.
I've found I can have difficulty in Larges due to sheer scope of the playerlist, so mentioning people I'm uncomfortable with

in the moment

is a new thing I'm trying; I should be able to put my focus where I want it and look back to see where I was uncomfortable with AND NOTICED someone in the past.
It's also a good way to mark things I may want to pursue at a later date.

Ok so you saying it's a playstyle thing your trying. It also crossed my mind earlier you might be using the neighborhood to discuss cases and that's why you weren't pushing as hard in thread. It got me thinking what warrants a vote to you? Because I use my vote as a pressure tool and I find threatening to vote someone if they don't answer a question can sometimes apply even more pressure to answer. So not voting till this late in the game baffles me.

Can you tell me in your mind what does a vote mean to you and how do you use them?

In post 548, Garmr wrote:

In post 538, goodmorning wrote:


P-EDIT:

In post 533, Garmr wrote:@goodmorning
Just curious why vote now and not earlier. You mention people earlier you feel uneasy about but didn't really push on them. I don't really understand a reason to hold back your vote if you find someone suspicious?

I like this question.

I was primarily focused on reading Csareo since he was responding to questions and I could play off the TSO thing.
As far as mentioning my uneasiness on people: one irrelevant post or off gut read does not a good vote make.
I've found I can have difficulty in Larges due to sheer scope of the playerlist, so mentioning people I'm uncomfortable with

in the moment

is a new thing I'm trying; I should be able to put my focus where I want it and look back to see where I was uncomfortable with AND NOTICED someone in the past.
It's also a good way to mark things I may want to pursue at a later date.

Ok so you saying it's a playstyle thing your trying. It also crossed my mind earlier you might be using the neighborhood to discuss cases and that's why you weren't pushing as hard in thread. It got me thinking what warrants a vote to you? Because I use my vote as a pressure tool and I find threatening to vote someone if they don't answer a question can sometimes apply even more pressure to answer. So not voting till this late in the game baffles me.

Can you tell me in your mind what does a vote mean to you and how do you use them?

Yeah, he's trying to convince me of total playstyle change from here. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=25487