Mafiascum.net

In post 3065, TierShift wrote:I'm gonna say this: if boon flips SK, garmr is scum.

I don't understand how this works. How could you determine SK/Mafia associations? If you've successfully done this before can I get a link?


The davesaz scumread I have seems to be similar to the reasons Flubber is being scumread. I haven't ISO'd Flubbernugget yet though.

Also could someone ask me some questions? That'll help me get a better understanding of the game.

@gm:

In post 2356, TierShift wrote:I like the pere and gm scumreads

?

I feel that responding about townreading thor for not voting boon has little merit, so I'm not going to.

In post 3175, reinoe wrote:I don't understand how this works. How could you determine SK/Mafia associations?

Only mafia who know it's not multiball could see boon's 2-shot bulletproof as a SK slip, as I've laid out.

In post 3177, TierShift wrote:

In post 3175, reinoe wrote:I don't understand how this works. How could you determine SK/Mafia associations?

Only mafia who know it's not multiball could see boon's 2-shot bulletproof as a SK slip, as I've laid out.

But it's not uncommon for SK to be 1-shot bulletproof or full bulletproof. 2-shot bulletproof isn't a stretch to be SK at all.

so...you're assuming boon truthfully claims his role as SK?

In post 3177, TierShift wrote:

In post 3175, reinoe wrote:I don't understand how this works. How could you determine SK/Mafia associations?

Only mafia who know it's not multiball could see boon's 2-shot bulletproof as a SK slip, as I've laid out.

That's interesting because I only thought he would be a sk because of his urge to survive is strong like I see in most third party roles. No were did i mention that it was a sk slip through. I inferred it was a scummy/antitown thing to do if you were talking about the bp. He could of soaked up a shot or two at least if he was town. Which makes think this a scum boon thing

In post 3053, Garmr wrote:

In post 3050, TierShift wrote:

In post 3046, AxleGreaser wrote:Id be thinking the red bits in 3041 light them up like Christmas trees...

You might also want to look at 2921

Yeah but none of these even remotely make me want to lynch him.

You know it's quite common to give sks or scum bullet proof roles in game with multiple threats and think about it boons being playing to survive he really hasn't done much. He made a promise first day didn't really hunt and second day annienen dies and boon comes out swinging at Iz. He could just be setting himself up to earn some town cred and what he thought would be a easy lynch on iz if he killed annienen because I don't see him killing egg who was defending him.

I feel like his a sk because he feels the need to announce the fact his two shot bullet proof to discourage who ever is shooting from shooting him again. If he was mafia,werewolf alien what ever he would have his team mates and would probably feel secure.

But here's something fun

In post 3051, TierShift wrote:

In post 3047, Izariael wrote:If he was trying to pull the night 1 kill onto him, then why is he scumreading me for not dying?

It's not rational. But you'll have to explain why irrational=scum because way more often irrational=town.

I'm pretty sure scumboon could come up with a better reason to scumread you.

Think about that last line, please.

In post 3179, TierShift wrote:so...you're assuming boon truthfully claims his role as SK?

this is what I expect from someone town reading boon

In post 3065, TierShift wrote:I'm gonna say this: if boon flips SK, garmr is scum.

In post 3114, TierShift wrote:

What is your own read on boon and what do you think of his thor vote?

I don't really have a read on him; I could see him either as a disinterested PR or a Scum coasting on a claim like that.
His Thor vote was not good.

Me like this read

Not someone who's open to the possibility boon is scum.

right, if I thought boon flip SK, I'd push you. However, I'm not pushing you at all. I think you're slightly town, haven't paid too much attention to you. But should boon somehow flip SK, I'm going to have a thorough look at you.

Why do you think his urge to survive is so strong? He's already softclaiming day 1, that doesn't seem like someone who wants to live long.

In post 3166, Muffin wrote:

In post 3159, Thor665 wrote:I'm saying some of the quotes you provided are "padded out" (i.e. made larger seeming) by conversation about me.

They're direct quotes, I haven't padded anything.

If you think my analysis is incorrect, feel free to do your own and show me the error of my ways. I'm open to being convinced, but somehow I think you'll just keep going "NUH UH" instead of doing anything useful.

No - it's a valid question from my part. Where do you think I went with 'quality' as a shift there?
You claimed I did.
Where did I and how?

I didn't.
At all.

In post 3179, TierShift wrote:so...you're assuming boon truthfully claims his role as SK?

If he's already pm'ed the mod and know he's immune to cops sure why not? He's immune to gunsmiths. His BP claim will look legit to rolecops. A SK can last a long time in a large by just being UTR and by claiming BP he can avoid scum kills. My concern is that he claims BP in order to draw a NK. That makes 0 sense even from a VI p.o.v. It's all WIFOM but I want Boon to explain it with an excuse besides "oh yeah I'm a VI lolz". Town BP have every incentive to deliberately draw kills. That's literally a town BP's job. Attempt to draw a NK. Now I'm not sure how someone actually does that but "herp a derp I'm VI lolz" is not one of them.

In post 3155, Slandaar wrote:I mean the suspicion comes from the idea that scum can have a nervous/awkward entrance to the game hence both my argument there and TSO's being very similar in nature. Is it more likely from scum? yes I think so, is there any scum motivation? no.

and Id have been happier if TSO said that.

In post 3185, AxleGreaser wrote:

In post 3155, Slandaar wrote:I mean the suspicion comes from the idea that scum can have a nervous/awkward entrance to the game hence both my argument there and TSO's being very similar in nature. Is it more likely from scum? yes I think so, is there any scum motivation? no.

and Id have been happier if TSO said that.

That there can exist a justification is not the same as the person having one. I for instance had very viable (to me) way to have meant
"safe assumption" (decisions based on it are safe because they are compatible with it not being true)
but it wasn't thors reason, so points like yours are less valuable, if the person doesn't make them for themselves.

Also that would be fine, but the actual "plenty" of actual scummy stuff (stuff that looked scummy at the time) is still yet to appear, despite...

Also yet to appear are things that I should comment about that are scummy about TSOs day two play.
The why is I looked and didn't find them.

Either he's scum and gone to ground (bravo me, I shut scum down... bugger I didnt lynch him)
or i was w w w w w w wong on a D1 read, I wanted to lynch significantly more than PereV

... its now D2.

In post 3182, Thor665 wrote:

In post 3166, Muffin wrote:

In post 3159, Thor665 wrote:I'm saying some of the quotes you provided are "padded out" (i.e. made larger seeming) by conversation about me.

They're direct quotes, I haven't padded anything.

If you think my analysis is incorrect, feel free to do your own and show me the error of my ways. I'm open to being convinced, but somehow I think you'll just keep going "NUH UH" instead of doing anything useful.

No - it's a valid question from my part. Where do you think I went with 'quality' as a shift there?
You claimed I did.
Where did I and how?

I didn't.
At all.

Thrice you've disagreed with the analysis I did. Stop dodging it. If you think I'm wrong or misrepresenting you, show me Shiro's posts the way I ought to have seen them.

It should be obvious the bit about "quality" was paraphrasing.

First you said the number of name mentions was not sufficient. Then you said I misrepresented the posts, and something something the degree of mentions.

So show me the right way to interpret those posts.

If you don't, it's because you can't.

In post 3183, reinoe wrote:

In post 3179, TierShift wrote:so...you're assuming boon truthfully claims his role as SK?

If he's already pm'ed the mod and know he's immune to cops sure why not? He's immune to gunsmiths. His BP claim will look legit to rolecops. A SK can last a long time in a large by just being UTR and by claiming BP he can avoid scum kills. My concern is that he claims BP in order to draw a NK. That makes 0 sense even from a VI p.o.v. It's all WIFOM but I want Boon to explain it with an excuse besides "oh yeah I'm a VI lolz". Town BP have every incentive to deliberately draw kills. That's literally a town BP's job. Attempt to draw a NK. Now I'm not sure how someone actually does that but "herp a derp I'm VI lolz" is not one of them.

hm...I gotta think about this.

On the one hand, it does not make sense from a town BP indeed. On the other hand, if you're doing this as a SK/scum you have a death wish.

And I believe his town play is far worse than his scum play. So he's probably town.

But. I do see garmr's thought process, to be fair. It's just weird that he went for SK specifically instead of just scum, as if he has extra knowledge.

In post 3102, The Fonz wrote:and accusing the scumhunter who points that out of 'flinging shit' is itself just flinging shit.

not quite the same as what I did though

The "scum hunter" that actually pointed it out was Garmr, who I was at the time IIRC pressuring, I am not fond of the person i am currently pressuring suggest I talk about something else
I didn't.
What you did was, I (erroneously a bit) thought a me too.

When i commented on you flinging shit. I made a mistake. I read the last part the only bit I quoted, as you fanning someone elses push (but keeping your hands clean)
In much the same way I triggered on the word "real" in this post http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p5900070 (my first game here)
(provided as an emotionally disconnected example)

Anyway, now, not making the mistake above, (The full quote was)

In post 2787, The Fonz wrote:Likewise, thought Garmr's rushing into a 1v1 looked town... But self consciously suggesting that scum wouldn't do that makes it look like it could be posturing. Question of why Axle dropped TSO suspicion a good one.

You as part of a comment that you thought it was towny thing (town points) for Garmr, then in general would agree that noticing an incoistsency in play would be good,
as it involves reading and thinking (hence your comment is true as far as it goes)
(I failed to remember that it was Garmr's actual question.)

That Garmrs question to me about TSO, also involved Garmr trying to get the guy(Axle) pushing Garmr at the time to talk about something else, not so much.
at the time i read Garmrs questions as attempt to distract me I ignored it at the time

Do note I am very willing to go back and reiterate my points and vote and push TSO.
All Id need is any sign I could plausibly succeed, when realistically me convincing people who have played with TSO who claim basically, nope meta, that they are wrong is wrong headed.
If i was right and TSO is scum.

I will need to flip other players first.
or find new points.
or ...

Finally
are you actually suggesting I need to chase a seemingly unlynchable wagon to be town?

yes I accept you ought (could) have an direct question for me about it.
And if you asked there is even more discussion that could be had as i explain my thought processes.
If you actually think I am scummy (say 85%) and its worth it you could do that... or Garmr could have.

PS Id also need to be convinced that on D2 TSO was most likely to flip scum, I believe my subsequent investigations
(while not pushing TSO, but looking to see if I can find better read)
found a more likely to flip scum target

hey but i am not voting... yeah. I have reasons for that too.
(I also want to work out Shiros alignment and Boons, they needed space and time, which Boons sadly predictably is failing to use.)

Got any questions you want to directly ask me?

In post 3187, Muffin wrote:Thrice you've disagreed with the analysis I did. Stop dodging it. If you think I'm wrong or misrepresenting you, show me Shiro's posts the way I ought to have seen them.

That's not what I'm disagreeing on.

YOU claimed I had asserted a quality instead of quantity - being a shift from my original statement.
I am asking YOU to back that up.
I can't prove something you said that I think is made up - that's not a valid thing to ask me to do.
Unless this is admission you're making gak up? Is that what this is? I can work with that.

In post 3175, reinoe wrote:Also could someone ask me some questions?

What is your read on Thor?

In post 3188, Muffin wrote:It should be obvious the bit about "quality" was paraphrasing.

First you said the number of name mentions was not sufficient. Then you said I misrepresented the posts, and something something the degree of mentions.

So show me the right way to interpret those posts.

If you don't, it's because you can't.

This is starting to sound more and more like 'made up' to me.

So the quantity thing - how was that a paraphrase?
Like, specifically - how did you even get that? I said nothing even close to that.

In post 3191, Thor665 wrote:

In post 3187, Muffin wrote:Thrice you've disagreed with the analysis I did. Stop dodging it. If you think I'm wrong or misrepresenting you, show me Shiro's posts the way I ought to have seen them.

That's not what I'm disagreeing on.

YOU claimed I had asserted a quality instead of quantity - being a shift from my original statement.
I am asking YOU to back that up.
I can't prove something you said that I think is made up - that's not a valid thing to ask me to do.
Unless this is admission you're making gak up? Is that what this is? I can work with that.

You can't do it, can you? You can't show why my interpretation of Shiro's posts is wrong. You can't show what a "proper" interpretation of them is.

Gee, why not, Thor?

The quality over quantity thing.
I did say something that it is easy to take as quantity - but you then accused me of shifting to quality and changing the goalposts.
That was made up gak on your part - T/F?

No piss off, dude.
I can back up what I said.

I want you to back up what you're CLAIMING I said when you attacked me over it.

Like, back up how you translated that.
You're all in a huff about how I'm translating Shiro - yet you're making up things I said while doing it and your big gripe with me is that and that you disagree.

Those issues are light years apart.
You need to back up what you said.

In post 3195, Thor665 wrote:The quality over quantity thing.
I did say something that it is easy to take as quantity - but you then accused me of shifting to quality and changing the goalposts.
That was made up gak on your part - T/F?

I tried twice to look at quantity. You shot it down both times. Flimsily. So if it's not the two ways I've tried to show it quantitatively, and it's not qualitatively, then why can't you show evidence to back up your statements about Shiro?

Why not?

In post 3196, Thor665 wrote:No piss off, dude.
I can back up what I said.

Obviously you can't, or you'd have done it already.