During the night Iz brought up how there is 'probably' a fourth neighborhood. He also said he is new to neighborhoods and doesn't know the ideal play in these situations. Those two don't match up. Why would you think there is probably a fourth neighborhood if you are new to them unless one of your scum partners are in it, and they told you during the night?
Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 6:11 pm
by Izariael
Boonskiies wrote:During the night Iz brought up how there is 'probably' a fourth neighborhood. He also said he is new to neighborhoods and doesn't know the ideal play in these situations. Those two don't match up. Why would you think there is probably a fourth neighborhood if you are new to them unless one of your scum partners are in it, and they told you during the night?
Okay... wow. I'm gonna leave it to goodmorning and Shino to say whether this is misrep, because I feel that it's pretty blatant misrep. I gave the
exact reason
(I LINKED THE POST FOR YOU) of why I thought this. If you didn't read it, then fine, but don't put words in my mouth. I never even used the word 'probably' in that entire post, nor did I hint at it. In fact, I specifically said we have
no confirmation of a fourth neighborhood
and should move forward assuming 3 until proven otherwise.
idea, but I would like to hear from you on the subject of the thing I brought up, if you don't mind.
I'm glad you brought it up, as I was planning to do so anyway. I never got a chance to touch on it before the thread lock because of Halloween stuff. That means that everyone here who isn't in our hood gets a really vague post (which you can hopefully follow soundly):
I will admit, your final post of the night left me a bit confused, as I didn't understand what was tipping you off in such a manner. Anen's post that followed it was able to shed light on it for me though, and I will say I have to agree. It looks that way because I was not properly applying my own stance to the
full
scenario. I've been basing most of my thoughts around NOT assuming it's guaranteed. But then suddenly my comment looked as though I said WAS guaranteed. It was a disconnect of logic that unfortunately pervades pretty much everything I said about the topic last night
and
on Day 1. To clarify, my stance is the former - NOT guaranteed. That is how I will be operating and you, Boonskiies and Shiro can hold me to that.
Having seen where you're coming from, and now understanding where my reasoning went awry, I'm now following why you took the stance you've taken since the start of Day 1. Your stance has been consistent at the very least, and I'm definitely townreading it now that I'm understanding it a bit better. On day 1 I had thought you were being a bit dodgy about it unnecessarily, but now I think you were right to do so.
You're welcome to follow through with the
terrible
plan, and heck, I would probably endorse it after seeing the angle you are approaching it from.
Also, I appreciate your vagueness on the matter, especially given how Boonskiies is launching out of the Day 2 gate...
Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 6:41 pm
by Flubbernugget
Yeaah I can see Iz as scum.
Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 6:46 pm
by AxleGreaser
In post 2607, Boonskiies wrote:I'm not answering it because you'll just come up with an ignorant response, so I decide that I'm better off just ignoring you so I don't get frustrated.
Many of my reads from 1875 still currently stand until I voice that I've modified them. I haven't fully evaluated how the flips have changed things for me. I'm still going just from what I've seen of day one at this point until I do so.
The read on T S O that I posted back in 368 was null because of ongoing games, but since NY176 has ended with T S O as town I would say that I'm townreading T S O. I did admittedly gloss over several of his posts though, so I might be missing something indicative. I think his interaction with Csareo and later with Axle is in line with what I was seeing of his interaction with reinoe in NY176. I am interested in seeing where he chooses to go today with his top scumread dead (and flipped town)
Greyfoxxx has all but disappeared, though I did like him for town what little we saw from him, and didn't have a scumread on Csareo when he was in slot either. I am keen to see a new face in the slot though.
Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 7:00 pm
by Boonskiies
Axle's voting me even though I've made it pretty obvious that I'm a PR. Interesting. I'll hop on a wagon that starts on Axle if no one sees Iz as scum. @Flubb - Thank you. You also just got finished with my last scum game, and will be able to tell if I'm scum or not pretty easily probably.
For having a vague reply to a vague question? I think goodmorning and I are on the same page of wanting to keep the details of our discussion within the neighborhood.
No one. Read the game and try to form a read. Thanks.
Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 7:33 pm
by Boonskiies
beast, Iz is sheepable. Also, so is Axle.
Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 7:34 pm
by Izariael
In post 2634, Boonskiies wrote:Axle's voting me even though I've made it pretty obvious that I'm a PR. Interesting. I'll hop on a wagon that starts on Axle if no one sees Iz as scum.
Yeah, you've made it pretty obvious;
too
obvious IMO. But
claiming
to have a role doesn't mean you
have
a role. I don't think it's indicative of Axle's alignment to vote against you and you should be careful of joining a wagon on Axle if this is your sole reason for doing so.
Personally, I have my doubts that you are what you say you are, but for today I'm fine with not pushing for proof.
In post 2634, Boonskiies wrote:Axle's voting me even though I've made it pretty obvious that I'm a PR. Interesting. I'll hop on a wagon that starts on Axle if no one sees Iz as scum. @Flubb - Thank you. You also just got finished with my last scum game, and will be able to tell if I'm scum or not pretty easily probably.
Yeah this claim is a carbon copy of your tracker fakeclaim.
Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 8:08 pm
by AxleGreaser
Spoiler: fluff
In post 2613, Garmr wrote:-takes a sip of my coffee see's axle debating both boon and nero's convo, opens up my deck pulls out a gun shoots myself-
Only one problem.. if they are scum you gotta work it out. If they ar town you gotta work it out, there is not enough mislynches to go around.
I would discuss what happened in my neighborhood qt but I don't have one.
I talked to myself.
@Axle
I'm willing to answer questions as long as they don't get caught up in one subject and we get stuck debating the same thing for the whole day so take them as final and if you have any criticism about it just note it and move TO ANOTHER POST.
In post 2441, Garmr wrote:axle this is the last time I'm going to talk about that initial conversation with anne
fuck It here it goes. What I found scummy was I didn't like the he stopped my pressure on boon at the time boon was a weak scum read and I wanted more reactions to get a feel for him. Annenin comes in and trys to dismantle my case because he doesn't agree (Town motive)/wants to discredit(scum motive what I think) he fails to do so as my points still actually stand. I believe he had to try and discredit because I don't think he was expecting to be questioned on 418 becuase he just labeled me as scum because of my reasoning for voting boon and getting lost early in the game, if he is going to label me as scum for my reasoning he should be able to show why it's flawed and then explain the scum motivation behind my post.
Plus I have Labeled other reasons why I think annenien is scummy especially His victim complex in post 1003 and he continues to show it in 1050 trying to gain sympathy.
That's the short of it.
Lets do this one bit at a time
Garmr: "What I found scummy was I didn't like the he stopped my pressure on boon at the time boon was a weak scum read and I wanted more reactions to get a feel for him."
here is way you described it earlier
Garmr: "It's the fact you tried to discredit my points. Which you weren't able to then you just brushed it off passively by saying oh well we don't agree. It really cut any progress on boonskies short as he hasn't provided much content."
So if he failed to discredit your points how did it cut any progress on Boonskies?
@Garmr
You missed a question
If your points were still valid and sound how did the pressure just go away and you not pursue Boonskies?
Spoiler: what pressure on boonskies?
garmr wrote:
Axle wrote:
While that may be bad play (and personally I do try not to cut across other peoples lines of enquiry.
have you examined how Aneninen plays to see if it was something thats just bound to happen, with how he plays?
He comments on sooooo many things in a post by post way, that if he sees something and has a point of view he posts it.
So Aneninen's natural play is just likely to do that and in 3/4 of the games you play with him he will be town and your likely to scum read him for that....
Seems to me like your tell on him is not very reliable. (You will find him to be scum in 100% of his games)
Well he flipped town so I guess you were right about this bit but I
never played a game with him
before and this was different than his newbie game(can chalk that up to trying to improve but did the reverse?)
yeah I had the guessed, after I saw the Aneninen flip, that you might approach the day this way.
You do indeed now(or always did if you are scum), know your push was wrong.
the flip however relieves none of my concerns that you were pushing a read in way, for reasons, I found inconsistent with you being town.
and although you
never played a game with him
that was the exact reason I referred you to an appropriate game to get a feel for him.
Spoiler: BTW @Aneneinen
I regard your play here as improvement, this environment (large normals are hard) I could reasonably have expected much worse as town.
Garmr: I believe he had to try and discredit because I don't think he was expecting to be questioned on 418 becuase he just labeled me as scum because of my reasoning for voting boon and getting lost early in the game, if he is going to label me as scum for my reasoning he should be able to show why it's flawed and then explain the scum motivation behind my post.
So you believe he made 418, then you challenged him at 419 on points he didnt think he would be questioned about
and then he made up and wrote 420 in 5 mins flat?
and made points that I have just argued that I find valid?
Sounds to me like he did in fact have those arguments at the top of his head and just typed them when he saw and read your post.
Failing to consider timing is not inherently scummy, but having scum reads inconsistent with the facts, kinda is, as scum dont really have to try and work stuff out they just make it up and have tendency to stop when it looks right enough (but is still little inconsistent).
In post 418, Aneninen wrote:Garmr, 415 – that vote, uhhh. If you have told that you had voted for Boonskiies because of lurking and producing nothing I would have believed it. But, what kind of reasoning was that?
Which asked a question so I sure hope he was expecting a response...
and
Garmr
For being overly sensitive about people scum reading him even a tiny bit. Scum are survival oriented and more likely to overreact to suspicion.
So did I do it right?
Garmr: especially His victim complex in post 1003 and he continues to show it in 1050 trying to gain sympathy.
Also that is the weirdest chainsaw / wk I ever saw, 418 lists reasons he claims are believable for your read....
Aneninen:
voted for Boonskiies because of lurking and producing nothing I would have believed it.
Worlds best white knighter.
Garmr wrote:
I'm going to take a step back and look at this game with different set of lenses.
if you are town that would be a very good idea.
I think its probably a good one if your scum as well,
PS I may or may not have deleted important bits out of my original post this edit got unwieldy at some points.
Spoiler: meta discussion
(discussion about discussion)
Finally I know you want to move on.. as you now know Aneninens alignment.
I don't know yours yet.
I am not sure how you know mine.
So no I wont be talking about what you choose.
I think your day 1 reads on Aneninen, claimed interrupted push on Boonskies were hinky and scummy, I want to understand them.
Do feel free to pursue other things on D2, if enough of them look towny, I might find I need to press other people more.
For having a vague reply to a vague question? I think goodmorning and I are on the same page of wanting to keep the details of our discussion within the neighborhood.
If there's more to it than that I'm all ears.
Yeah get a little more aggressive and I can start town reading you.
Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 8:17 pm
by Flubbernugget
Iz how come you don't have a read on boons?
Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 8:48 pm
by Muffin
oh, didn't get a PM saying Day started. Catching up
In post 2613, Garmr wrote:-takes a sip of my coffee see's axle debating both boon and nero's convo, opens up my deck pulls out a gun shoots myself-
Only one problem.. if they are scum you gotta work it out. If they ar town you gotta work it out, there is not enough mislynches to go around.
I would discuss what happened in my neighborhood qt but I don't have one.
I talked to myself.
@Axle
I'm willing to answer questions as long as they don't get caught up in one subject and we get stuck debating the same thing for the whole day so take them as final and if you have any criticism about it just note it and move TO ANOTHER POST.
In post 2441, Garmr wrote:axle this is the last time I'm going to talk about that initial conversation with anne
fuck It here it goes. What I found scummy was I didn't like the he stopped my pressure on boon at the time boon was a weak scum read and I wanted more reactions to get a feel for him. Annenin comes in and trys to dismantle my case because he doesn't agree (Town motive)/wants to discredit(scum motive what I think) he fails to do so as my points still actually stand. I believe he had to try and discredit because I don't think he was expecting to be questioned on 418 becuase he just labeled me as scum because of my reasoning for voting boon and getting lost early in the game, if he is going to label me as scum for my reasoning he should be able to show why it's flawed and then explain the scum motivation behind my post.
Plus I have Labeled other reasons why I think annenien is scummy especially His victim complex in post 1003 and he continues to show it in 1050 trying to gain sympathy.
That's the short of it.
Lets do this one bit at a time
Garmr: "What I found scummy was I didn't like the he stopped my pressure on boon at the time boon was a weak scum read and I wanted more reactions to get a feel for him."
here is way you described it earlier
Garmr: "It's the fact you tried to discredit my points. Which you weren't able to then you just brushed it off passively by saying oh well we don't agree. It really cut any progress on boonskies short as he hasn't provided much content."
So if he failed to discredit your points how did it cut any progress on Boonskies?
@Garmr
You missed a question
If your points were still valid and sound how did the pressure just go away and you not pursue Boonskies?
Spoiler: what pressure on boonskies?
garmr wrote:
Axle wrote:
While that may be bad play (and personally I do try not to cut across other peoples lines of enquiry.
have you examined how Aneninen plays to see if it was something thats just bound to happen, with how he plays?
He comments on sooooo many things in a post by post way, that if he sees something and has a point of view he posts it.
So Aneninen's natural play is just likely to do that and in 3/4 of the games you play with him he will be town and your likely to scum read him for that....
Seems to me like your tell on him is not very reliable. (You will find him to be scum in 100% of his games)
Well he flipped town so I guess you were right about this bit but I
never played a game with him
before and this was different than his newbie game(can chalk that up to trying to improve but did the reverse?)
yeah I had the guessed, after I saw the Aneninen flip, that you might approach the day this way.
You do indeed now(or always did if you are scum), know your push was wrong.
the flip however relieves none of my concerns that you were pushing a read in way, for reasons, I found inconsistent with you being town.
and although you
never played a game with him
that was the exact reason I referred you to an appropriate game to get a feel for him.
Spoiler: BTW @Aneneinen
I regard your play here as improvement, this environment (large normals are hard) I could reasonably have expected much worse as town.
Garmr: I believe he had to try and discredit because I don't think he was expecting to be questioned on 418 becuase he just labeled me as scum because of my reasoning for voting boon and getting lost early in the game, if he is going to label me as scum for my reasoning he should be able to show why it's flawed and then explain the scum motivation behind my post.
So you believe he made 418, then you challenged him at 419 on points he didnt think he would be questioned about
and then he made up and wrote 420 in 5 mins flat?
and made points that I have just argued that I find valid?
Sounds to me like he did in fact have those arguments at the top of his head and just typed them when he saw and read your post.
Failing to consider timing is not inherently scummy, but having scum reads inconsistent with the facts, kinda is, as scum dont really have to try and work stuff out they just make it up and have tendency to stop when it looks right enough (but is still little inconsistent).
In post 418, Aneninen wrote:Garmr, 415 – that vote, uhhh. If you have told that you had voted for Boonskiies because of lurking and producing nothing I would have believed it. But, what kind of reasoning was that?
Which asked a question so I sure hope he was expecting a response...
and
Garmr
For being overly sensitive about people scum reading him even a tiny bit. Scum are survival oriented and more likely to overreact to suspicion.
So did I do it right?
Garmr: especially His victim complex in post 1003 and he continues to show it in 1050 trying to gain sympathy.
Also that is the weirdest chainsaw / wk I ever saw, 418 lists reasons he claims are believable for your read....
Aneninen:
voted for Boonskiies because of lurking and producing nothing I would have believed it.
Worlds best white knighter.
Garmr wrote:
I'm going to take a step back and look at this game with different set of lenses.
if you are town that would be a very good idea.
I think its probably a good one if your scum as well,
PS I may or may not have deleted important bits out of my original post this edit got unwieldy at some points.
Spoiler: meta discussion
(discussion about discussion)
Finally I know you want to move on.. as you now know Aneninens alignment.
I don't know yours yet.
I am not sure how you know mine.
So no I wont be talking about what you choose.
I think your day 1 reads on Aneninen, claimed interrupted push on Boonskies were hinky and scummy, I want to understand them.
Do feel free to pursue other things on D2, if enough of them look towny, I might find I need to press other people more.
Depends it's situational if someone out the blue calls me scum with little to no reasoning I get a little annoyed and Notice how I didn't jump onto ane straight away and waited till after the conersation. I was trying to work him out. I'm more likely to react when pushed if someone is to buddy buddy or when someone scum reads me for shit reasons (or no reason). I work best if there's interaction between me and the person. Also if i can see the thought process and they are wrong but it's obvious they are town and they are trying I list them as town simple. Also If I'm admitting meta to you and showing meta where it actually happens then don't ignore it that is so fucking annoying since It's something I would do in about
nearly every game I ever had.
Also wtf is with that
Misrep
My vote came off boon when I started reading him as town why do I need to apply pressure on a town read?
Also making shit up is lame you have to actually find things you would consider scummy as town then that way if your questioned on it you don't get caught out that's like scum 101. I'm proud of my record as scum (%100 win rate) not so proud of my town win rate (like 25%) so that's why i want to improve the latter. I know what to do if I actually care about being scum read and can cruise by with little to none actual work but when I care about hunting scum I put my mind out there.
Also I don't know your alignment where the fuck are you getting that from but my guess from yesterday still hasn't changed scum.
VOTE: Axle
@Axle you should vote me lets make this a 1v1 you and me.
Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 9:10 pm
by Izariael
Flubbernugget wrote:Iz how come you don't have a read on boons?
I don't recall saying I don't have a read on him; I simply haven't posted one. I haven't done so because I don't know what to make of his claim yet.
I don't think Boonskiies is playing in a way that is beneficial for town, regardless of what role he may have or may be claiming. That leads me to think a fake claim is highly possible.
I think his claim is working against town here because:
1) He's suggesting that he's unlynchable because he's claimed a PR - I disagree. Claiming to have a PR does not mean you HAVE a PR, as I've said previously.
2) He's scumreading Axle for voting a claimed PR despite the fact that Axle has already made it clear that he doesn't believe the claim. This seems to be a mentality that stems from #1.
3) The majority of his scumhunting here and in neighborhood thread has to do with garnering reactions to his claim. While it's certainly valid to do so, I think limiting himself to that alone is not effective (see #2) I think a town player would be looking at multiple facets of the game, and his fixation on this one topic makes me think he could be fakeclaiming as scum and is trying to look like he's scumhunting effectively/actively.
If Boonskiies DOES have the role I think he's claiming, then proof of it should come soon enough. If it doesn't, then I will happily advocate for his lynch at a later date. Today is not the day for that though.
TL;DR: I'm scumreading him, but the cost of lynching PR-Boonskiies today does not outweigh the benefit of lynching scum-Boonskiies today, in my opinion.
..... there's also that part where he, you know, hammered PeregrineV.
Here, let me recap for you: 203123322534
Sorry guys. I know it's pretty scummy, but he's claimed a PR so we can't vote for him. That would be scummy. (see #2 above)