In post 2039, Thor665 wrote:No you weren't - you unvoted me in that post or immediately juxtaposed to it. Or was the unvote also sarcasm?
Because if you're town, despite your uselessness today, you'll be more useful (hopefully), in later days.
Scritpen, I felt, was a better vote, and more likely scum.
Since doing a full iso on him, it could be just differing views on how posting should be communicated. Every post of his I feel like his goal is to provide as little information as possible while still trying to look like he is. In summary of reading his posts, he does appear to have reads, with various reasons, on a few players. So maybe it's just me. Maybe it's not.
Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:31 am
by PeregrineV
In post 2039, Thor665 wrote:I have continually asked you to explain it and have also presented it to the best of my understanding - if you think you can clarify something for me my standing question of 'explain the scumtell' remains open and unaddressed by you.
In post 1968, Slandaar wrote:I find it believable that if you have a certain experience with games going a certain way you would think others with similar experience levels would think similarly, thus you not doing so when he thinks you would think similar to him appears scummy to him.
But it didn't in that way.
He said it was scummy if there were two scum teams. But if there was one scum team it would not be scummy.
If there are 2 scumteams, and Thor called it despite evidence to the contrary, Thor is either
1. Lucky town that got the setup right for reasons mortals will never fathom
2. Scum that already knows it
If there is 1 scumteam, and Thor makes a safe assumption there are two, Thor is either
3. Wrong town that made an incorrect assumption
4. Scum that is trying to make town look for more scumteams than there are
Since #4 makes no sense whatsoever, it 1 or 2 or 3. Since I doubt it's 1, and don't care if it's 3, #2 is the one that I need to focus on in determining townThor or scumThor.
Tell me again you still don't get it.
Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:34 am
by PeregrineV
In post 2050, T S O wrote:And as well as that it's not like I'm even fucking townreading Peregrine anyway.
In post 1335, Egg wrote:As I said in the post you quoted while making this post, I had no issues with you sheeping at Izar. I was trying to understand your position. It seems that you claim to have mostly voted for lolreactions and failed to show us what reactions you got (unless I missed that part, which is entirely possible and if so please point me in that direction). And as I also said, there's possible scum motivation in adding momentum after a case is made if Script is town and you are scum. As for my specific read on Script, I've started to lean more town now that he's started posting some pretty good content. I liked Izar's case at the time it was made, but those points aren't really relevant anymore.
So, in summary, a vote for Scripten caused a massive reaction of Scripten=town while the sum of the spoiler-ed posts indicate null at best.
Which of those reactions do you read as town? Which do you read as scum? Why do I have to drag this out of you if it was your own reaction test?
It's hard to see reading those 4 posts where Scritpen is so town to the three players that my single vote makes all three of them vote for me. Question it, sure. A vote by someone who is unhappy with their vote, sure.
So, I do not read any of the Thor, Muffin, or Anen reactions to me Scripten vote as town.
All three of them come across as scummy.
If I were sheeping onto some obvious town player, then, yeah, I kind of get it, dumb vote, sheeping new player, what gives.
But, I quoted his posts at the time of the reactions.
And it wasn't a reaction test, but since a reaction occurred, I examined the results.
In post 2039, Thor665 wrote:No you weren't - you unvoted me in that post or immediately juxtaposed to it. Or was the unvote also sarcasm?
Because if you're town, despite your uselessness today, you'll be more useful (hopefully), in later days.
Scritpen, I felt, was a better vote, and more likely scum.
Since doing a full iso on him, it could be just differing views on how posting should be communicated. Every post of his I feel like his goal is to provide as little information as possible while still trying to look like he is. In summary of reading his posts, he does appear to have reads, with various reasons, on a few players. So maybe it's just me. Maybe it's not.
In post 2201, PeregrineV wrote:If there are 2 scumteams, and Thor called it despite evidence to the contrary, Thor is either
1. Lucky town that got the setup right for reasons mortals will never fathom
2. Scum that already knows it
If there is 1 scumteam, and Thor makes a safe assumption there are two, Thor is either
3. Wrong town that made an incorrect assumption
4. Scum that is trying to make town look for more scumteams than there are
Since #4 makes no sense whatsoever, it 1 or 2 or 3. Since I doubt it's 1, and don't care if it's 3, #2 is the one that I need to focus on in determining townThor or scumThor.
Tell me again you still don't get it.
Well, first off, there is no evidence to the contrary.
Second, I only brought it up in a discussion here someone claimed their read made sense as long as there was no scum that scum didn't know the alignments of already, which brings into question how it is #2 or #4 in any case.
Third - you said you didn't think I'd slip, which rules out your #2 in any case.
Fourth, #4 makes just as much sense as #2 especially when you toss in that even by your own understanding it is highly likely to have an SK in the setup. In fact, you're claiming this.
Fifth, coming from someone who claims that there would be a likely SK - how were you planning to distinguish between SK and 2nd scumteam on Day 2 when you noted that I would be suspect on Day 2 if multiple kills happened?
Sixth, I do not believe you did this much analysis of my commentary considering the other comments in a similar vein you missed, especially since one of them you later admitted would be scummy, if it was the biggest issue on me, why wasn't it an issue at all on him?
Seventh, with multiple occurrences of 'town could do this' (also known as 50% of your equation) especially since, if we add in SKs, I was actually right - and I showed you early on I was including SKs, why did it even become worth mention in the first place? You might as well have said 'Thor is posting, he might be scum' and would have had just as much validity to the tell - so why do you like this tell and think it is remotely accurate?
I still don't get it.
Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:45 am
by PeregrineV
In post 2052, Egg wrote:I'm not applying certainty. That's not the point. The point is that you are leaving room for more than half of the game to be scum. And yeah, it's probably outdated. I get that. Reads change. But this is where you stood at that point of the game and it was off to me. If you were to post a new reads list that was completely opposite of this one, it wouldn't make this one go away.
Yes. I guess I gave out too much information.
How does my list compare you yours?
In post 2190, Egg wrote:Town: Me, Thor, Axle
Scum: Pere, Tier, Goodmorning
In post 2201, PeregrineV wrote:If there are 2 scumteams, and Thor called it despite evidence to the contrary, Thor is either
1. Lucky town that got the setup right for reasons mortals will never fathom
2. Scum that already knows it
If there is 1 scumteam, and Thor makes a safe assumption there are two, Thor is either
3. Wrong town that made an incorrect assumption
4. Scum that is trying to make town look for more scumteams than there are
Since #4 makes no sense whatsoever, it 1 or 2 or 3. Since I doubt it's 1, and don't care if it's 3, #2 is the one that I need to focus on in determining townThor or scumThor.
Tell me again you still don't get it.
Well, first off, there is no evidence to the contrary.
Second, I only brought it up in a discussion here someone claimed their read made sense as long as there was no scum that scum didn't know the alignments of already, which brings into question how it is #2 or #4 in any case.
I guess you give more weight to the context of the discussion than I do. I went by your conclusion/assumption statement (261)
Third - you said you didn't think I'd slip, which rules out your #2 in any case.
Which is one reason to not pursue it, but there is no reason to ignore it. Plus, I could be wrong.
Fourth, #4 makes just as much sense as #2 especially when you toss in that even by your own understanding it is highly likely to have an SK in the setup. In fact, you're claiming this.
Could also have a vig. This part of the conjecture is not my point, it's yours.
Fifth, coming from someone who claims that there would be a likely SK - how were you planning to distinguish between SK and 2nd scumteam on Day 2 when you noted that I would be suspect on Day 2 if multiple kills happened?
Possibly flavor (kill vs stabbed), possibly croskills, who really cares, since it doesn't matter until and if it happens.
Sixth, I do not believe you did this much analysis of my commentary considering the other comments in a similar vein you missed, especially since one of them you later admitted would be scummy, if it was the biggest issue on me, why wasn't it an issue at all on him?
I need to spend a lot more time and mental effort figuring your alignment out than I do other people. As a result, you will probably be scrutinized more than some other players.
Seventh, with multiple occurrences of 'town could do this' (also known as 50% of your equation) especially since, if we add in SKs, I was actually right - and I showed you early on I was including SKs, why did it even become worth mention in the first place? You might as well have said 'Thor is posting, he might be scum' and would have had just as much validity to the tell - so why do you like this tell and think it is remotely accurate?
At some point, it will become obvious if it's an SK or 2 scumteams or both or neither. At that point, if other reasons have not dictated otherwise, then you would be a more likely scum candidate for your foreknowledge.
I still don't get it.
I know. How about now?
Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:00 am
by PeregrineV
In post 2059, Scripten wrote:This sounds like a town read. I suppose that makes sense. Do you think his pushes (discounting TSO) are worthwhile?
Does he have a non-TSO push? He seems to really like TSO for scum.
Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:03 am
by PeregrineV
In post 2063, Egg wrote:When I find a scum read early on Day 1
Perhaps a walk through the mind of Egg on how you arrived at a scum read on me.
In the interest of full disclosure, you voted me in post 24 before I ever entered the game, so am keenly interested in the process of how you "find a scum read".
In post 2059, Scripten wrote:This sounds like a town read. I suppose that makes sense. Do you think his pushes (discounting TSO) are worthwhile?
Does he have a non-TSO push? He seems to really like TSO for scum.
Sure, he's made pushes elsewhere. I take it from your reaction that you don't see them as being particularly stand-out. I agree.
Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:05 am
by PeregrineV
In post 2063, Egg wrote:pere wrote:
6. No mistake. I still believe that if there are 2 scumteams, Thor is likely scum (this was the initial thought- now that has gone up to 100% chance).
So you are either claiming a guilty on Day 1 of a normal game or using hyperbole. Why are you using hyperbole?
In post 2059, Scripten wrote:This sounds like a town read. I suppose that makes sense. Do you think his pushes (discounting TSO) are worthwhile?
Does he have a non-TSO push? He seems to really like TSO for scum.
Sure, he's made pushes elsewhere. I take it from your reaction that you don't see them as being particularly stand-out. I agree.
I'll go back a and look later, but none stick out of my mind right now.
Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:07 am
by PeregrineV
In post 2063, Egg wrote:I've poked and prodded at other people and found nothing but weak scum reads. And I know my initial vote was weak, especially seeing that there are other neighborhoods. Your later play just validated it.
Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:21 am
by Thor665
In post 2206, PeregrineV wrote:I guess you give more weight to the context of the discussion than I do.
Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:21 am
by Thor665
Yeah, it's a weird habit I have - I look at the context of what is being said to decide if it is or is not scummy.
I'm cray-cray like that.
can you explain what came before here that made you think "probably scum"
to be clear I interpet that statement at that time to mean More likely than every body labelled less strongly, (its an early D1 read),
but I am interested in where it came from?
He had 11 posts. 1 had content (464). He also voted and unvoted 2 people, one of which he revotes.
Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:00 am
by PeregrineV
In post 2214, Thor665 wrote:Yeah, it's a weird habit I have - I look at the context of what is being said to decide if it is or is not scummy.
I'm cray-cray like that.
Since your pretty much in wait mode, when I flip town, who is the scum on my wagon?
It seems like a continuation of the Slandaar read in 1961. The reasons seem to be the opposite of why I'm a scumread (863), but maybe he just hates people catching up or calling them catch-up posts.
Either way, seems upset about the Goodmorning vote and the reason behind it.
Never mentions Aeronaut previously except once, so doubt they are scum together.
I was talking in terms of townish-scummy, you don't need to describe what the post says.
In post 2214, Thor665 wrote:Yeah, it's a weird habit I have - I look at the context of what is being said to decide if it is or is not scummy.
I'm cray-cray like that.
Since your pretty much in wait mode, when I flip town, who is the scum on my wagon?
I have addressed this already to multiple people, and I kind of think you were one of them.
My answer hasn't changed at this point because the wagon hasn't made any further headway and I have no nightkill info to see either.
Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:03 am
by Thor665
Oh, snap, I mean nightkills info to see - I almost let slip that I have scum knowledge of only one nightkill.
It seems like a continuation of the Slandaar read in 1961. The reasons seem to be the opposite of why I'm a scumread (863), but maybe he just hates people catching up or calling them catch-up posts.
Either way, seems upset about the Goodmorning vote and the reason behind it.
Never mentions Aeronaut previously except once, so doubt they are scum together.
I was talking in terms of townish-scummy, you don't need to describe what the post says.
I think it's scummish on the surface, but I'm not backchecking the links to check the allegations. So call it null, but I'll probably end up voting the Anen wagon since it;s the only counter to my own.
Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:10 am
by PeregrineV
In post 2219, Thor665 wrote:Oh, snap, I mean nightkills info to see - I almost let slip that I have scum knowledge of only one nightkill.
Barring multiball, it's a safe assumption there may only be one nightkill or two.
Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:13 am
by Thor665
Pere brought up multiball - he is scummy if it's multiball.
Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:14 am
by PeregrineV
In post 2222, Thor665 wrote:Pere brought up multiball - he is scummy if it's multiball.