Mini 486: GAME OVER!

[Sir Tornado]

Albert

: What the heck is a

OG

?

Yes, thanks for the welcome. Reading right now.

Original Gangster LOL. -Mod

[curiouskarmadog]

Albert

: What the heck is a

OG

?

Yes, thanks for the welcome. Reading right now.

Original Gangster LOL. -Mod

Respect he deserves huh? Well, I think he is crafty..I will give him that..

at any rate, thoughts on the game thus far "OG"?

[Sir Tornado]

Right...

Firstly, I am concerned about the buddying up Oman is doing with SPAG (googling his name and all)

Secondly, the OJ Power issue: I don't think that is scummy. In fact, I would have been really suspicious of OJ Power had he tried to joke his way into the bandwagon... that is what scum generally tend to do.

Thirdly, TDN (The Deepfriend Ninja), I think gets too defensive. A third vote isn't the end of the world. That is only halfway up to the lynch. We are nowhere near deadline. Why get so defensive?

We then have an interesting theory by TDN. He says OJ put a vote on him to see if the scum would put a fourth vote on him. This is essentially non possibility. If there is a scum who would do that, it has to be one of the dumbest scum I have ever encountered.

After that, we have this from Nelly632:

I have got no problem quick lynching a person who acts this ODD in the random stage and doesnt want to explain it...

I can't even begin to say how horrible this idea is. We are not here to lynch people who do odd stuff, not the least in random stage without explaining it. We need to lynch people who do

scummy

stuff. Odd stuff is not always scummy. Whenever you see anything odd, you should think

"What would the scum possibly gain by doing this? And what would he lose?"

Often times, you realize that the scum doesn't gain anything by doing what they do. At those times, the person who is doing whatever he is doing, is probably not scum. At least, his behaviour is not scummy at that time.

Then...

[hypotherical] Oj=Mob [hypothetical/] OJ sees a player with 2 votes against him he figures he will add a third vote and hopefully either another townie or another mafia member will put on a fourth vote. From there someone distorts some quotes about something, and a fifth and hopefully sixth vote follow over the next few days. Im not saying that this is the scumteam's master plan, but what if OJ just thought he would take a stab in the dark to see if it would stick.

Bah, this plain crazy and too fantastic to actually happen.

Volkan then rightly points out that the alleged bandwagon developing on TDN was, actually not a bandwagon.

Then, we have...

A non consequential post by The Hermit. I hate such posts with fierce passion.

Then, CKD meta games OJ and says he does this frequently, and thus might be made a mafia target.

Then, Volkan

votes

TDN, which is, I think 4th vote on him.

TDN posts a "I've screwed up" post... that on page 2. I generally tend not to like such posts.

The Hermit then comments about the 6 to lynch or 7 to lynch subject. What a waste of post...

Then, Volkan, who has his vote on TDH accepts TDN's "I've screwed up" post. But, he doesn't unvote.

Then, Oman posts his long post 57... and I do not like it. You have to remember, that in this game, the defence of one player for another player is not exactly scummy. It is also masonic. In this game, on Day 1, we shouldn't look at who is defending whom, we should look for other scum tells, like crap and faulty logic, jumping bandwagons with the intention to lynch, lurking in plain sight, etc. The relationship with other players part, we can get into when a scum is actually lynched.

Post 61... TDN does the U turn on OJ using crap logic again.

Good post 65 by Vollkan.

Oman then tries to fish for a mason claim from TDF in 71, He then puts him at FOUR votes.

I am torn right now into whether TDF is more scummy, or the bandwagon on him is. I'll settle for a simple

FOS: TDF

[pulsewidth]

Not quite ready to put DFN at -1. A response from ojpower is really needed at this point to give us better insight into the situation.

As for OJ/DFN, I don't find anything particularly scummy about them. Yet.

Really? Nothing at all? When you posted this, ojpower had already posted his controversial vote on DFN, and DFN had already posted his ojpowerbandwagon hypothesis. None of that struck you as being scummy?

[TheHermit]

Most scum wouldn't be stupid enough to start a bandwagon that openly. Also, note that the vote was oj's first and only post in the entire game. I can't claim to know why he unvoted when he hadn't voted before, but that doesn't automatically make him scum. Some of the comments made about him here suggest that he's anti-town no matter what side he's on, though, which leads me to think we're better off lynching him sooner than later.

Also, I fail to see why DFN is being so heavily suspected for NOT voting. I see his reluctance to vote as timidity; he doesn't know whether he's right or wrong, and wants to hear more before he DOES vote. We already know he reacts badly under pressure, but that's a player issue, not a role issue. Other than that, people are basically dogpiling him... why? Because he talks of hypotheticals? We aren't going to catch scum with "what if" questions this early in the game, true. However, calling him scum based on that? I don't really follow that logic.

So no, I don't see anything particularly scummy about those two. It's the bandwagoners I'm more concerned about.

[Oman]

Right...

Firstly, I am concerned about the buddying up Oman is doing with SPAG (googling his name and all)

This is buddying up? I always google names I've never seen before, its fun and interesting.

Thirdly, TDN (The Deepfriend Ninja), I think gets too defensive. A third vote isn't the end of the world. That is only halfway up to the lynch. We are nowhere near deadline. Why get so defensive?

QFT. DFN jumped up and down say we're being incited to lynch on a third vote.

I have got no problem quick lynching a person who acts this ODD in the random stage and doesnt want to explain it...

I can't even begin to say how horrible this idea is. We are not here to lynch people who do odd stuff, not the least in random stage without explaining it.

WTF Did I miss this!? What a horrible, horrible thing to say! +10 scumpoints. ( ifound it post 28)

TDN posts a "I've screwed up" post... that on page 2. I generally tend not to like such posts.

Agreed.

Then, Oman posts his long post 57... and I do not like it. You have to remember, that in this game, the defence of one player for another player is not exactly scummy. It is also masonic.

I made this point a few posts later when I figured it out myself.

In this game, on Day 1, we shouldn't look at who is defending whom, we should look for other scum tells, like crap and faulty logic, jumping bandwagons with the intention to lynch, lurking in plain sight, etc. The relationship with other players part, we can get into when a scum is actually lynched.

I still think relationships are an important part, but I concede that it will yield nothing concrete for a day or two.

Oman then tries to fish for a mason claim from TDF in 71, He then puts him at FOUR votes.

I explained my vote substatially in that post. Though "fishing for a mason claim" is a bit BS, I was merely commenting that I doubted they were both town, and especially masons.

I'm glad you're doing more than Kerplunk did, even if some of it is wrong.

[vollkan]

Also, I fail to see why DFN is being so heavily suspected for NOT voting. I see his reluctance to vote as timidity; he doesn't know whether he's right or wrong, and wants to hear more before he DOES vote. We already know he reacts badly under pressure, but that's a player issue, not a role issue. Other than that, people are basically dogpiling him... why? Because he talks of hypotheticals? We aren't going to catch scum with "what if" questions this early in the game, true. However, calling him scum based on that? I don't really follow that logic.

As I said back in #65, I wanted to keep some pressure on DFN; that's to help me discern this very thing. His reluctance could be timidity, it could be "testing the water". Him reacting badly could just be him, or it could be him not dealing with his guilt well. His hypotheticals could be over-eager newbie, or could be scummy.

With a player like him, it is very difficult to work out what is scummy and what isn't.

For that reason, I don't like the fact that there is a L-2 wagon where one of the players (OJ to make this obvious) is posting nothing and another vote (Nelly632's) is a random vote which has stayed on for far too long.

Unvote, FoS: TFN

.

[gorckat]

Whew- I almost replied at the end of page 3 before realizing I wasn't on page four Thankfully I previewed and saw things I didn't recognize.

Anyway:

Okay, looking at the OJ/DFN fiasco. I have gone through looking for people attempting to shift focus to DFN instead of OJ:

What's missing from the speculation and hyperbole (I'm gonna look that up after I use it) are oj's comments.

I agree his action was questionable. I also agree with volkan about the rather dramatic way DFN wants to rile us up.

This one sticks out to me as "protecting OJ". He gives a message firstly, about hearing from OJ. Then gives the middle-of-the-road answer "I agree it was

questionable

", then uses MUCH more dramatic language on "rather

dramatic

was DFN

wants

to

rile us up

".

I wasn't protecting anybody. It's a fact: oj hadn't posted except for his vote and was being jumped on (iirc- I started this morning with new posts since my last).

A third vote in and off itself is no risk- all the scum (assuming none on the wagon) would have to out themselves in record post times to get it done.

What I felt was questionable was the lack of content for the third vote.

And yes, I was intentionally middle of the road on DFN. His reactions strike me very much as newbly (no insult or offense intended, DFN). I've seen more experienced players often point out newb actions can be seen as scum actions, so again I find myself somewhat agreeing with volkan.

What I don't understand is the bolding of certain words calling them dramatic. I'm not sure what you were bringing up there, but it seems the overall gist of your post was revoked/rescinded a tad later.

I've got to re-read with that understanding (or clarify myself on it) so I'll be posting again shortly.

[gorckat]

Okay- there was a lot less to double check than I thought. I just don't like doing it in the preview pane.

QFT. DFN jumped up and down say we're being incited to lynch on a third vote.

I really am not sure what you were trying to say with my quote when you say the same thing yourself.

[Oman]

I was talking about the contrast between your euphamistic defence and hyperbolic offence.

And yes, I was intentionally middle of the road on DFN

Thats not even what I said. Re-read please, I said you were middle of the road on OJ and very clearly defined with DFN.

I was also bolding to comment on the contrast between "Questionable" and "Dramatic" "Rile us up" which are less euphamistic.

Gorckat, may I ask if you think who, or both, or either of DFN or OJ could be scum at this moment (and I don't mean could as in "well anyone could if they're selected randomly" number wise, I mean by their actions)? Thank you.

Right now Nelly hits high on my list along with DFN. Gorckat is getting my attention but so far seems relativly pro-town.

[SPAG]

Oman, can i just ask how Nelly comes high on your list? I've just read back and as far as i can see he/she has only posted twice, hard to tell from that.

[gorckat]

Ah- I caught this on my first preveiw but didn't add it because I realized there was a page four and thus forgot it.

I parsed that post badly. Questionable was oj's postless vote. Dramatic was DFN.

I am middle of the road, slightly scummy, on DFN right now because the over-reaction fits 'stereotypical newb town with 3 votes' reaction. It also fits newb scum.

I have no opinion of oj right now, other than that if it is true he just votes without posting in all his games, then he does indeed stink.

@SPAG: I think oman is referring to Nelly's quicklynch comment.

[SPAG]

Ah just noticed that line. Indeed it is very strange to make a comment like that. Though maybe a bit too reckless for a mafia?

[The Deepfried Ninja]

Here is what i got from the oj/ninja issue. It starts back on page two when the argument against me first started. Elias asked "whats wrong with a bandwagon" then volkan and gorkchat both say it looked like I was trying to rile everyone up. Good points that seem to be coming from pro town players.

Then

and where exactly is your vote right now?

My problem here is this, you created a 3 paragraph scenario of the mafia’s grand scheme to eliminate you from the game and proclaiming that “OJ wants to lynch a townie” all based on one vote without an explanation. After all of this, you only FoS him. You obviously think he is scummy because you are keeping an eye out for anyone who “tries to protect him”. Then you state you do not want to be “irresponsibly throwing around votes” but you keep your random vote on vollkan. This doesn’t seem consistent to me. If you are town isnt it your “responsibility” to lynch scum?

CKD sees a band wagon forming and wants to fuel the fire a little bit more by complaining that my random vote has not been turned off. I don't really see why this is such a problem for him. My random vote was on vollkan which i did not see as that big of a deal, oth er players still had their random votes on also.

I realize he was mad because I said i was trying to be responsible with my vote, but i really don't see a random vote on a person with 1 vote total as being irresponsible.

What im trying to say is that he was making a big deal out of nothing. He was fueling the fire as well as buddying up with everyone else that was against me, and also never put a vote on me, not even an FOS. Three things that scream scum.

Then

the discussion is on you and OJ

Not really that scummy but the purpose of this post is to make sure i remain in the cross hairs, because he wants the focus of the group off himself and his mob friends.

Unvote:vote CKD

[vollkan]

curiouskarmadog wrote:

and where exactly is your vote right now?

My problem here is this, you created a 3 paragraph scenario of the mafia’s grand scheme to eliminate you from the game and proclaiming that “OJ wants to lynch a townie” all based on one vote without an explanation. After all of this, you only FoS him. You obviously think he is scummy because you are keeping an eye out for anyone who “tries to protect him”. Then you state you do not want to be “irresponsibly throwing around votes” but you keep your random vote on vollkan. This doesn’t seem consistent to me. If you are town isnt it your “responsibility” to lynch scum?

CKD sees a band wagon forming and wants to fuel the fire a little bit more by complaining that my random vote has not been turned off. I don't really see why this is such a problem for him. My random vote was on vollkan which i did not see as that big of a deal, oth er players still had their random votes on also.

I realize he was mad because I said i was trying to be responsible with my vote, but i really don't see a random vote on a person with 1 vote total as being irresponsible.

What im trying to say is that he was making a big deal out of nothing. He was fueling the fire as well as buddying up with everyone else that was against me, and also never put a vote on me, not even an FOS. Three things that scream scum.

It's not the fact that it is only 1 vote that matters; there just always comes a point where random votes are inappropriate. To make it clear, at that point you should be voting for a person for a very good reason.

I personally don't think a vote necessarily has to be aimed at a lynch (votes can be very good as a stronger prompt for explanation than a FoS), but you still shouldn't hold a random vote on someone past the point.

And the fact that other people also do it doesn't make you doing it right. You made a specific charge of "irreponsible vote throwing" and, hence, it is inconsistent for you to have a vote out there irresponsibly.

the discussion is on you and OJ

Not really that scummy but the purpose of this post is to make sure i remain in the cross hairs, because he wants the focus of the group off himself and his mob friends.

Not really that existent either.

CKD in post #47:

alright i realize that my 3 page manifesto followed by no vote looks really dumb. I have no answer for u Im sorry I screwed up. Anything else I do or say is only going to have you asking me more questions. lets just watch the discussion unfold and try to find some scum.

right now, you and OJ are the discussion

You did not quote him exactly (interesting in itself)and, whilst the difference is subtle, it actually has a very significant effect. CKD posted that in response to you suggesting that we "watch the discussion unfold and try to find some scum", which is highly evasive to say the least.

Hence, "you and OJ" were/are the discussion in the sense of your behaviour is arousing the most interest and discussion at the moment.

The way you present it makes it look as though he was keeping the pair of you in focus for discussion when, in fact, he pointed out that the pair of you were the focus of discussion.

And, again, you present this post as a scum plot based on pure conjecture.

Nelly READ THIS:

, please take your random vote off TFN.

[SPAG]

Lol didn't notice that, and it does change CKD's tone.

FAO DFN, why change the quote?

[The Deepfried Ninja]

i thought i knew it word for word and just typed it, sorry

[Nelly632]

Unvote: DFN

[The Deepfried Ninja]

vollkan what do you think of the case i made against ckd though, besides my random vote left on issue.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Vote count

Deepfriedninja - 2 (ojpower, Oman)
Sir Tornado - 1 (Elias_the_thief)
Ckd - 1 (Deepfriedninja)

Time is limited.

Not limited enough to have a deadline yet, though...

Mod announcement:

There will not be a deadline until I feel that discussion has dropped to a sufficient level - or until I am bored.

Also, I want all questions to be asked in-game rather than by PM from now on.

[curiouskarmadog]

the discussion is on you and OJ

Not really that scummy but the purpose of this post is to make sure i remain in the cross hairs, because he wants the focus of the group off himself and his mob friends.

Not really that existent either.

CKD in post #47:

alright i realize that my 3 page manifesto followed by no vote looks really dumb. I have no answer for u Im sorry I screwed up. Anything else I do or say is only going to have you asking me more questions. lets just watch the discussion unfold and try to find some scum.

right now, you and OJ are the discussion

you caught this before I could comment.

DFN, again, you have developed some scum plot. However, this time you not only take my words out of context, but you edit them as well.

Why?

[The Deepfried Ninja]

i answered that question

[curiouskarmadog]

i answered that question

i thought i knew it word for word and just typed it, sorry

you typed it? Then why did you display it as a quote and not use ""?

Your case against me is absolutely ridiculous!

First of all, I was pointing out your inconsistencies. Which you agreed your case against OJ was “dumb”

alright i realize that my 3 page manifesto followed by no vote looks really dumb. I have no answer for u Im sorry I screwed up. Anything else I do or say is only going to have you asking me more questions. lets just watch the discussion unfold and try to find some scum.

now you have concocted yet another mafia scheme to off you. Your case against me has no merit. The fact you try to deflect guilt with ludicrous nonsense is quite telling. My current read on you is that you are first time mafia and you do not know how to get the ball rolling or a townie with an itchy lynching hand. Which is it?

[vollkan]

vollkan what do you think of the case i made against ckd though, besides my random vote left on issue.

Why on earth are you specifically seeking MY approval of your case?

Now, your "case" was:

CKD sees a band wagon forming and wants to fuel the fire a little bit more by complaining that my random vote has not been turned off. I don't really see why this is such a problem for him. My random vote was on vollkan which i did not see as that big of a deal, oth er players still had their random votes on also.

I realize he was mad because I said i was trying to be responsible with my vote, but i really don't see a random vote on a person with 1 vote total as being irresponsible.

What im trying to say is that he was making a big deal out of nothing. He was fueling the fire as well as

buddying up

with everyone else that was against me, and also never put a vote on me, not even an FOS. Three things that scream scum.

Then

the discussion is on you and OJ

Not really that scummy but the purpose of this post is to make sure i remain in the cross hairs, because he wants the focus of the group off himself and his mob friends.

Unvote:vote CKD

Your case only has 2 points:
1) Him allegedly fuelling the fire by rightly pointing out that you were being a hypocrite; and
2) The made-up and inaccurate quote.

Under 1), you also say this (I quoted it above but I want to focus on it here):

What im trying to say is that he was making a big deal out of nothing. He was fueling the fire as well as buddying up with everyone else that was against me, and also never put a vote on me, not even an FOS. Three things that scream scum.

The random vote thing was not "nothing". It is not a lynch-worthy hypocrisy, but at the same time it is not "nothing". However, there are two other problems here, you also accuse him of a) "buddying up" and b) that his not voting or FoSing you "screams scum".

The random vote thing was not buddying up, hence, since you obviously must have some justification for the "buddying up" suggestion, please tell us all which post/s you are talking about?

The not voting/FoS is interesting, are you suggesting it is pro-town for people to FoS/vote you?

I would revote TFN right now, but I don't think a wagon can be justified when one of the votes (OJ's) is a random vote from a complete lurker. Judging by the way things are going, OJ could become a major headache.

OJPOWER remove your random vote

[TheHermit]

I'm starting to think we're best off killing ojpower immediately so his lurking, random-voting self can't kill us later when we're at LyLo. At this point I don't even care whether he's scum or not, I want him gone.

Vote: ojpower