Mini 461 "24" Game Over. Roll Credits

[Guardian]

I don't think newer players are more likely to work with town, just easier to read if they slip up as scum. My sentence was confusing.

I do agree that we need someone competent as director, but again, I greatly fear us getting a very competent scum director who with strategic role assignments wins the game for the scum.

Also, what roles look like they are most likely kill targets? Crypto? Director? Whatever the case is, we don't want to put experienced people there, as it would give scum even more incentive to kill off better town players.

Yos, yes I know 1 hour = 3 life days. Pooky said this in the queue, I got it...
We can start with less crypto because we will probably be getting less crypto info in the beginning; we could have two extra liaisons doing tasks for the first few hours and then switch them to crypto.

And Yos, we may disagree on who is easy to read/not, but what in and of itself is fishy about putting someone easy to read as director and lynching them if they seem scummy? We definitely don't want a scum director, so...

[YogurtBandit]

NSA: Signals Intelligence, Satellite Recon(Domestic), Military Strike on US Soil, the NSA can help provide aid by intercepting messages, providing Satellite Recon in order to help infiltrate/invade a location or the location of terrorist suspects or launch a military strike with special field teams on US soil.

A military strike sounds intriguing, a way to stop the terrorists.

Mod: Does the director directly assign a Liason postuon, Like A goes to CIA B Goes to White house, or Do you assign the actual place they go to?

[Xdaamno]

I don't think newer players are more likely to work with town, just easier to read if they slip up as scum. My sentence was confusing.

I do agree that we need someone competent as director, but again, I greatly fear us getting a very competent scum director who with strategic role assignments wins the game for the scum.

You haven't said why you agree with having someone compitent.

Also, what roles look like they are most likely kill targets? Crypto? Director? Whatever the case is, we don't want to put experienced people there, as it would give scum even more incentive to kill off better town players.

Agreed.

Yos, yes I know 1 hour = 3 life days. Pooky said this in the queue, I got it...
We can start with less crypto because we will probably be getting less crypto info in the beginning; we could have two extra liaisons doing tasks for the first few hours and then switch them to crypto.

And Yos, we may disagree on who is easy to read/not, but what in and of itself is fishy about putting someone easy to read as director and lynching them if they seem scummy? We definitely don't want a scum director, so...

I was thinking maybe we should make everyone relay info exactly

and

immediatly, which would solve the problem, I think. Anybody who dosen't do that (Without a very good reason we agree with) would be scum.

The idea is to have the less-experienced players with the purpose of information drones, and we'll simply be able to pick out the liars, since hopefully newbie scum can't lie too well. Plus having experienced players with a powerful role is just begging to be NKed.

[Yosarian2]

I don't think newer players are more likely to work with town, just easier to read if they slip up as scum. My sentence was confusing.

I do agree that we need someone competent as director, but again, I greatly fear us getting a very competent scum director who with strategic role assignments wins the game for the scum.

Also, what roles look like they are most likely kill targets? Crypto? Director? Whatever the case is, we don't want to put experienced people there, as it would give scum even more incentive to kill off better town players.

Yos, yes I know 1 hour = 3 life days. Pooky said this in the queue, I got it...
We can start with less crypto because we will probably be getting less crypto info in the beginning; we could have two extra liaisons doing tasks for the first few hours and then switch them to crypto.

And Yos, we may disagree on who is easy to read/not, but what in and of itself is fishy about putting someone easy to read as director and lynching them if they seem scummy? We definitely don't want a scum director, so...

It's absolutly true we don't want a scum director, that could be a disaster, and if the director starts to look scummy we very well might want to lynch them. Personally, I think we should more worry about voting for someone who during this "pregame" part looks both pro-town and looks like he'd do a good job about director, rather then focus on trying to pick someone "easy to read".

We could start with 2 cryptos during the first hour and then go to 3, but having just 1 for the first hour sounds quite dangerous to me; he'd have big backload of information, and if the scum kill him then we'd lose all of it.

As for kill targets, I'd say the #1 target is usually going to be the "counter-intellegence" cop, especally a cop who's halfway done a 4 hour investigation. The #2 target is probably either the director or a crypto with information. I don't know if that would encourage the scum to kill good players, though, as those are also the people most likely to get field agent bodyguards.

And btw, as I think about it, I agree CTD's idea that we should make suspicious looking players or lurky players into field agents; with the bodyguard thing, we basically want the field agents to be...(cough)...expendable.

[YogurtBandit]

I don't think newer players are more likely to work with town, just easier to read if they slip up as scum. My sentence was confusing.

I do agree that we need someone competent as director, but again, I greatly fear us getting a very competent scum director who with strategic role assignments wins the game for the scum.

Also, what roles look like they are most likely kill targets? Crypto? Director? Whatever the case is, we don't want to put experienced people there, as it would give scum even more incentive to kill off better town players.

Yos, yes I know 1 hour = 3 life days. Pooky said this in the queue, I got it...
We can start with less crypto because we will probably be getting less crypto info in the beginning; we could have two extra liaisons doing tasks for the first few hours and then switch them to crypto.

And Yos, we may disagree on who is easy to read/not, but what in and of itself is fishy about putting someone easy to read as director and lynching them if they seem scummy? We definitely don't want a scum director, so...

As for kill targets, I'd say the #1 target is usually going to be the "counter-intellegence" cop, especally a cop who's halfway done a 4 hour investigation. The #2 target is probably either the director or a crypto with information. I don't know if that would encourage the scum to kill good players, though, as those are also the people most likely to get field agent bodyguards.

And btw, as I think about it, I agree CTD's idea that we should make suspicious looking players or lurky players into field agents; with the bodyguard thing, we basically want the field agents to be...(cough)...expendable.

I hate those two paragraphs. The first is speculating kill targets, which may mean you are thinking out lud while making it look good. It also has an air of scuminess too it, Theres no doubt about that.

The last sentence, is basically putting people at death. Of course, it will protect Crptyos and Directors, but still. Expendable? Sounds like an easy death for the terrorists. The last thing we want is for 3 Agents to go down in the first 12 Hours. With Lynches, Mafia kills are 3, and Lynches are 4, So we could have 7 deaths in the first 12 hours. Which could possibly mean horror and terror for CTU. Assign most to Liason, its a role that cant do too much dangeR (aside from NSA)

[Xdaamno]

Yoghurt, for now I think we should theorize on gameplay... you're jumping into the thick of things qute fast.

And I seriously disagree with your second paragraph, Yoghurt. You're practically saying bodyguards aren't useful. It's in no way a free kill for the terrorists; why would you think that? We save a player and lose a different one, they're not getting any more kills. They can't kill again until after the time limit, even if we save with bodyguard.

Though I was thinking about maybe some bodyguards might be protecting less powerful players; since they're jack-of-all-trades themselves, usually.

[Yosarian2]

I hate those two paragraphs. The first is speculating kill targets, which may mean you are thinking out lud while making it look good. It also has an air of scuminess too it, Theres no doubt about that.

...what?

First of all, Guardian just speculated about the exact same thing, and you didn't have a problem with him doing it. The inconsistancy of you ignoring him for saying that and attacking me for saying that is interesting, especally because he was earlier pushing for you as director.

fos:Yogurt, fos:Guardian

because of a possible connection there.

Anyway, what's wrong with me pointing out who the key targets are? I think it's an important thing to discuss, so the bodyguards know who to protect.

The last sentence, is basically putting people at death. Of course, it will protect Crptyos and Directors, but still. Expendable? Sounds like an easy death for the terrorists. The last thing we want is for 3 Agents to go down in the first 12 Hours. With Lynches, Mafia kills are 3, and Lynches are 4, So we could have 7 deaths in the first 12 hours. Which could possibly mean horror and terror for CTU. Assign most to Liason, its a role that cant do too much dangeR (aside from NSA)

That dosn't make any sense. It looks like the scum probably ARE going to kill when they choose to, we don't seem to have any roles that can stop that, no role-blockers or doctors or anything. The only control we have is WHO the scum kill, because we can have bodyguards protect the key pro-town roles, so that the town can hopefully get investigate results from the cop and trackers without losing that info to nightkills.

And I don't see how my suggestion is anti-town. If X is a pro-town person who is considered to be highly scummy and suspicious by the rest of the town, it would be much better for the town if he sacrificed himself to save the cop from a nightkill rather then us eventually lynching him. Sorry if that sounds cold to you, but it's good pro-town stratagy.

[Guardian]

The bodyguard bit is good protown strategy. Yogurt, I will re-read in detail later, but right now it seems to me that opposing that strategy is fishy :\.

unvote vote: Guardian

. I don't want Yogurt to be director if he doesn't want to be / doesn't think he'd do a good job, and I think being director would be awesome, I think I would be very competent at it, and I think that it would be one of the most fun experiences playing mafia ever. And I'm pro-town .

We definitely don't want a director who doesn't want to be director; when you post after this post, say if you would be willing/interested to be director or not, that will narrow down the field and give us some info to go on, too.

[Spambot]

Alright, I think I've got a better grasp on it now.

It seems like we absolutely want the guys that decode stuff. I'd say we want at least two, maybe even three. I'm not sure how often we will be getting information that needs to be decoded, but it sounds like it will be fairly often and usually be pretty important.

Obviously we need a counter intelligence agent. It seems like the most powerful role.

As far as the director goes, I think that having somebody good in that rule is extremely important. Because they can engage in private communication with us, they are going to be by far the most prolific player. Having somebody good in that role is dangerous if they are scum, but I think the benefit of if they aren't outweighs it. If we do elect scum there, they will be forced to talk to so many people and have to be so involved with what is going that they will have plenty of opportunities to make a slip.

As far as the other roles, I'm not too sure what we need. The white house guy sounds pretty interesting, especially since he can speed up others actions (if I'm reading it right). We're on a very real deadline, and getting things done as fast as possible is going to be very important.

With that said, it is EXTREMELY necessary that nobody lurk. Nine days for the equivalent of a normal mafia day isn't very much time, especially for a day 1. It seems like there will be a lot of info coming in and we can't afford to have somebody with an important job slacking or missing deadlines.

So far, the person that has provided the most reasonable arguments for strategy has been Yos, so I think he'll be a good director.

Vote: Yos

[Yosarian2]

With that said, it is EXTREMELY necessary that nobody lurk. Nine days for the equivalent of a normal mafia day isn't very much time, especially for a day 1. It seems like there will be a lot of info coming in and we can't afford to have somebody with an important job slacking or missing deadlines.

Truth.

Not only is it a matter of 9 RL days per lynch, we might not want to wait until hour 3 to get off the first lynch, because the town might get more lynches if we start lynching in hour 1 or 2. So, everyone start thinking about who looks scummy, because if we could put together the first lynch in the first 3 or 6 days it would be a good thing.

[Eyceking]

Alright, I think I get this? It's definitely different is what it is. Anyway...

I agree in principle with whoever it was that said we should concentrate early on liaison officials rather than Cryptographers because of how scarce and random the early information is likely to be. But then the mod said a liaison officer will have to spend several hours in their position and it may be that we can't get them back if and when we feel we need them. It may be easier to fill the Crypto positions and if we feel we need a certain liaison officer then we can transfer that way easier because the Crypto only gets tied up for one hour at a time. That's if I've been reading this right.

Also, I'd want an experienced Director just because he'll/she'll know more of the players they're playing with and can assign them to their strongest positions. The only problem,

clearly

is the potential of having a strong scum player in position. Though I'd like to think we'd be astute enough to identify such a threat, it's something that requires great consideration.

Unvote: Vote Yos

In case anybody is wondering this is because the general consensus is that he is the strongest player. I have no idea having very little experience and I'm willing to go with what the majority feel is in their best interest. I'm willing to take the risk that he might be scum in the hope of a bigger pay off that he is a strong pro-town leader.

[YogurtBandit]

Vote:Guardian

But only if I get to be Liason.

[Xdaamno]

Obviously we need a counter intelligence agent. It seems like the most powerful role.

It's also the role most powerful in the hands of intelligent scum. I suggest we once again, give it to a newbie, because scum trying to lie as cop is going to leave some large footprints. There's still the problem of

when

the cop reveals information, but this'd really only apply in games where we don't all know who he is. Whether he reveals it or not, he's still a nightkill target, so I suggest we 'make' him reveal it immediatly, and let us be up-to-date.

Alright, I think I get this? It's definitely different is what it is. Anyway...

In case anybody is wondering this is because the general consensus is that he is the strongest player. I have no idea having very little experience and I'm willing to go with what the majority feel is in their best interest. I'm willing to take the risk that he might be scum in the hope of a bigger pay off that he is a strong pro-town leader.

I don't like your sheep-ness here; many scum do this to pass the blame if something goes wrong. You should make your own mind up

I'm not saying who I'd like to be director at this point... because I haven't decided.

[Yosarian2]

It's also the role most powerful in the hands of intelligent scum.

Interesting. Why do you say that? Scum very rarely try to lie and fake cop results, although this setup does raise the risk a bt, because we won't know if it was the cop or the crypto messing with us. Still and all, it'd be a huge risk for either of them to flat out lie about cop results; I'm be more worried about a scum crypto messing with us in more subtle ways.

I suggest we once again, give it to a newbie, because scum trying to lie as cop is going to leave some large footprints. There's still the problem of

when

the cop reveals information, but this'd really only apply in games where we don't all know who he is.

I believe it's not the cop who would have that choice, it's the crypto who would decode the info and get the result. And if we get a confirmed innocent, we woudln't necessarally want the crypto to say that right away, because then the confirmed innocent would just get killed. It's better for the town to reveal confirmed innocents as late as possible, either when they would otherwise be lynched or in as close to an endgame situation as is practical, the information is just more useful then.

I was thinking, in fact, that that's something the director's ability to talk in private could be useful for; if a crypto gets a confirmed innocent, he tells the director rather then telling the whole town, that way the information isn't lost unless both the crypto and the director get killed, and it'd make it harder for a scum crypto to hold back information then him just not telling anyone at all.

[Xdaamno]

It's also the role most powerful in the hands of intelligent scum.

Interesting. Why do you say that? Scum very rarely try to lie and fake cop results, although this setup does raise the risk a bt, because we won't know if it was the cop or the crypto messing with us. Still and all, it'd be a huge risk for either of them to flat out lie about cop results; I'm be more worried about a scum crypto messing with us in more subtle ways.

Haven't thought about it much, but in the hands of clever scum we could be screwed.

I didn't know cryptos got their results. In the case, I'd like to once again

ask the mod whether information can be sent to multiple cryptos

.

I suggest we once again, give it to a newbie, because scum trying to lie as cop is going to leave some large footprints. There's still the problem of

when

the cop reveals information, but this'd really only apply in games where we don't all know who he is.

I believe it's not the cop who would have that choice, it's the crypto who would decode the info and get the result. And if we get a confirmed innocent, we woudln't necessarally want the crypto to say that right away, because then the confirmed innocent would just get killed. It's better for the town to reveal confirmed innocents as late as possible, either when they would otherwise be lynched or in as close to an endgame situation as is practical, the information is just more useful then.

Bleh. Once again, didn't know it was sent to cryptos. Because the cop dosen't see the result (But can he send to cryptos differently), I assume it's fine to have him.

I was thinking, in fact, that that's something the director's ability to talk in private could be useful for; if a crypto gets a confirmed innocent, he tells the director rather then telling the whole town, that way the information isn't lost unless both the crypto and the director get killed, and it'd make it harder for a scum crypto to hold back information then him just not telling anyone at all.

Actually, how about this: We choose the three most pro-town players as cryptos, then every time they get a result they

all

give it to the director without telling anyone else, assuming we can send to multiple cryptos. He'll reveal the results, and we might be able to root out scum cryptos, since they're results will conflict.

If there's 2 scum, and we lynch the fake townie, we're in a bad position with no cryptos, but since the townie will be revealed at death, we'll have caught two more scum.

[Yosarian2]

Yeah; based on the mod post, it sounds like counterintellegence agents send their results to cryptos, and it also sounds like they can only send their result to 1 crypto. Which probably means they don't find out if the person they investigated was town or scum, although they should at least know WHO they investigated which should limit the ways in which a scum crypto could lie. It also sounds like a scum counterintellegence agent could intentionally send the crypto bad info, though. And it also sounds like he can only send the info to 1 crypto, instead of multiple cryptos.

Counterintelligence Agent(1)

Counterintelligence is the section that handles internal investigations in order to root out terrorist agents, the Counterintelligence Agent can investigate a player's prior history in order to get a result about his innocence or guilt(by pulling his entire phone records for the past month).

Since the phone records are encrypted, they must be decrypted by a crypto agent.

All investigations take four hours to complete so it's important that you choose wisely who to investigate. Investigations can be interrupted or cancelled by choice or death of agent involved, partial investigations are not saved and must be restarted.(If you begin investigating player X at hour 1, the investigation will be done by the beginning of hour 5 and you can foward the results to a chosen crypto agent at that point. you may not send multiple results to multiple crypto agents).

Beware of putting a terrorist in this position because he is very likely to falsify investigation results!

So, yeah; I'm going to agree with you here, we probably want the people we trust the most to be cryptos, because they're the ones who are going to get most of our information first.

[Guardian]

Yos, you seem scummy, trying to post a lot and throw around a lot of good ideas to get the nomination. If you are town, though I would like to be director myself, I would be happy with you being director.

Are you town, Yos?

[Guardian]

And the throwing a lot of good ideas around in and of itself isn't scummy, but you are obviously campaigning for director; anyone who really wants to be director looks scummy to me; I look scummy to me, because director is a really important role, and scum would love to get it for themselves.

[Xdaamno]

Not saying I don't agree with you, but... you're accusing Yos

and yourself

of being scum? You've both made the exact same 'mistake', for want of a better word.

[Xdaamno]

Are you town, Yos?

lol XD

[Yosarian2]

Yos, you seem scummy, trying to post a lot and throw around a lot of good ideas to get the nomination. If you are town, though I would like to be director myself, I would be happy with you being director.

Are you town, Yos?

Heh. Yes, I'm town.

As for the "campaigning for director" thing; well, I always tend to run for "mayor" ish roles when pro-town, because I trust myself more then someone else, if that makes any sense. I can show you some examples if you want. I also always love to try and figure out the best pro-town stratagy of how to use special rules and roles in theme games; I just have a lot of fun doing that.

That being said, I don't really care if I am director or not, so long as whoever does become director is willing to listen to my ideas. I'd like to be, sure, but if you guys for whatever reason distrust me, you should pick someone else; if nothing else, it would be incredibly difficult for me to try and plan stratagy and move people around into different roles and all that while half the town is trying to lynch me. If you guys decide you don't want me as director, I'd suggest CrashTextDummies, he seems to have a pretty good understanding of how to use the different roles and such, and the way he's thinking about stuff gives me a good vibe about him.

[Xdaamno]

Yos, you seem scummy, trying to post a lot and throw around a lot of good ideas to get the nomination. If you are town, though I would like to be director myself, I would be happy with you being director.

Are you town, Yos?

Heh. Yes, I'm town.

As for the "campaigning for director" thing; well, I always tend to run for "mayor" ish roles when pro-town, because I trust myself more then someone else, if that makes any sense. I can show you some examples if you want. I also always love to try and figure out the best pro-town stratagy of how to use special rules and roles in theme games; I just have a lot of fun doing that.

That being said, I don't really care if I am director or not, so long as whoever does become director is willing to listen to my ideas. I'd like to be, sure, but if you guys for whatever reason distrust me, you should pick someone else; if nothing else, it would be incredibly difficult for me to try and plan stratagy and move people around into different roles and all that while half the town is trying to lynch me. If you guys decide you don't want me as director, I'd suggest CrashTextDummies, he seems to have a pretty good understanding of how to use the different roles and such, and the way he's thinking about stuff gives me a good vibe about him.

Yeah, I was thinking about CTD myself

IGMEOY guardian, really. Just... strange vibes.

[Guardian]

Not saying I don't agree with you, but... you're accusing Yos

and yourself

of being scum? You've both made the exact same 'mistake', for want of a better word.

Pushing to be director is scummy. So even though I am not scum, I am acting scummy by wanting to be director. Does that make sense? It's as if I was lurking, lurking can look scummy, and even though I know I am not scum, I can acknowledge that my behavior looks scummy.

Yos said he was town.

He wouldn't lie to me.

Yos, I actually would like to see those examples where you tried to become director as pro town. Doesn't mean you are town here, but it makes it more plausible.

[Xdaamno]

No, it's nothing to do with wanting to be director.

I'm not saying anything more, just IGMEOY.

[Guardian]

It's everything to do with wanting to be director. That's why I said Yos and I looked scummy. That's what you said seemed odd. Your not backing up your statement or responding to my explanation is fishy!