Metagaming

This forum is for discussion related to the game.
User avatar
The Central Scrutinizer
The Central Scrutinizer
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
The Central Scrutinizer
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3100
Joined: August 18, 2006
Location: Illinois

Metagaming

Post Post #0 (ISO) » Tue May 29, 2007 8:00 am

Post by The Central Scrutinizer »

Not naming names, though it should be fairly obvious who I'm referring to.

If there is a particular player who, no matter whether they are scum or town, plays in a way that draws the attention of the town to distraction in nearly every game, is it a sound metagame policy to lynch that player every day one in order to eliminate a distracting element?

I'm in/have been in a fair number of games with this particular player, and this player always seems to be in the thick of suspicion, whether or not they are town or scum. Is it worth it to keep them around just to see who falls back onto the "wagon Player X" strategy, or more useful to off them early?
"You might very well think that; I couldn't
possibly
comment."
User avatar
Yaw
Yaw
Yawesome
User avatar
User avatar
Yaw
Yawesome
Yawesome
Posts: 3171
Joined: February 9, 2004
Location: Nairobi, Kenya

Post Post #1 (ISO) » Tue May 29, 2007 8:12 am

Post by Yaw »

Well, IS tends to be quite useful,
if
he's town. So sound metagaming policy tends to be to investigate him within the first few days, to make sure he is. And if he isn't, coming out as a cop to nail IS tends to be a good use of a cop.

...what do you mean this isn't about IS?
Success breeds suspicion
User avatar
Shanba
Shanba
So win
User avatar
User avatar
Shanba
So win
So win
Posts: 4072
Joined: January 3, 2007
Location: Up a Tree
Contact:

Post Post #2 (ISO) » Tue May 29, 2007 8:16 am

Post by Shanba »

You've essentially said who you're talking about, so not naming names is pretty useless anyway. XD.

The thing is, no matter how questionable any given player's playstyle is, they are still at the very least another warm body for the town. Also, it's entirely possible that said player might be a power role and, even played badly, a power role is useful for the town. And you don't really want to waste a lynch that way.

Also, I fully believe that no player plays exactly identical as town or as scum and it is therefore always possible to distinguish a player, so long as they are active's, alignment.
(10:50:24 PM) xcaykex: GODDAMNIT I DONT WANNA GET RID OF MY TENTACLE RAPE PORN

Ribbit.
User avatar
JDodge
JDodge
Accept it
User avatar
User avatar
JDodge
Accept it
Accept it
Posts: 5926
Joined: May 6, 2005
Location: Atop my cloud
Contact:

Post Post #3 (ISO) » Tue May 29, 2007 8:20 am

Post by JDodge »

I'd say that lynching someone based on playstyle is a bad idea if I hadn't wanted to do that many a time myself.
User avatar
Kelly Chen
Kelly Chen
Open-Minded
User avatar
User avatar
Kelly Chen
Open-Minded
Open-Minded
Posts: 2150
Joined: November 25, 2005
Location: in the party

Post Post #4 (ISO) » Tue May 29, 2007 8:24 am

Post by Kelly Chen »

Sadly whether it's a good idea or not, just suggesting that the town lynch the player on principle will probably get you some attention and votes.
User avatar
Mr. Flay
Mr. Flay
Metatron
User avatar
User avatar
Mr. Flay
Metatron
Metatron
Posts: 24969
Joined: March 12, 2004
Location: Gormenghast
Contact:

Post Post #5 (ISO) » Tue May 29, 2007 8:38 am

Post by Mr. Flay »

*shrug* Lynch them for being a distraction/unhelpful
in that game
, not because they are always that way. One helps correct behavior (hopefully), the other is akin to stalking.
Retired as of October 2014.
User avatar
JDodge
JDodge
Accept it
User avatar
User avatar
JDodge
Accept it
Accept it
Posts: 5926
Joined: May 6, 2005
Location: Atop my cloud
Contact:

Post Post #6 (ISO) » Tue May 29, 2007 8:44 am

Post by JDodge »

I suppose you could also look at it as borderline discrimination even.

There's an even simpler solution; if you absolutely can't stand playing with someone, don't join any games that they're in.
User avatar
Yosarian2
Yosarian2
(shrug)
User avatar
User avatar
Yosarian2
(shrug)
(shrug)
Posts: 16394
Joined: March 28, 2005
Location: New Jersey

Post Post #7 (ISO) » Tue May 29, 2007 10:10 am

Post by Yosarian2 »

Mr. Flay wrote:*shrug* Lynch them for being a distraction/unhelpful
in that game
, not because they are always that way. One helps correct behavior (hopefully), the other is akin to stalking.
Agreed.

It is never a good stratagy (except, perhaps, as a page 1 random-ish vote) to attack someone just because you expect them to play badly. On the other hand, if someone is doing something specifically in this game that you think is hurting the town, then voting for them based on that is valid, although it still might not be the best move.

The goal should never be to get the player out of the game, it's to get the anti-town behavior out of the game, or to go after a player who you think is scum based on his anti-town behavior.

For example, still not naming names, there was one player who briefly decided to adopt a stratagy where every time he was a townie, he would claim townie day 1. It's a part of my stratagy that if someone claims townie without a good reason, I tend to be suspicious of them, and so I ended up voting for this player every single time he claimed townie; not because I thought it was a scum-tell in his case, and not because I had anything against him personally, but because it was anti-town behavior, and every pro-town player should try to deter other people in the game from doing and getting away with anti-town behavior.
I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie
User avatar
The Central Scrutinizer
The Central Scrutinizer
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
The Central Scrutinizer
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3100
Joined: August 18, 2006
Location: Illinois

Post Post #8 (ISO) » Tue May 29, 2007 10:33 am

Post by The Central Scrutinizer »

Ok, these are all good suggestions. I've just become a little fed up with his play recently. It's not that I hate him on a personal level, I just think that in general his play is detrimental to the town, no matter what his alignment, and the only way to eliminate that element is to lynch him.
"You might very well think that; I couldn't
possibly
comment."
User avatar
New Coldness
New Coldness
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
New Coldness
Goon
Goon
Posts: 255
Joined: May 28, 2007
Location: New Orleans

Post Post #9 (ISO) » Tue May 29, 2007 10:36 am

Post by New Coldness »

If he's really talky, then there's good news: he'll be throwing out personal tells like crazy. So he'll be easy to peg as town/scum fairly early on and you'll be able to quickly lynch if he's scum and just keep him around and ignore him if he's town.
As Town: 2-3
As Scum: 1-0
User avatar
beanbagboy
beanbagboy
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
beanbagboy
Goon
Goon
Posts: 253
Joined: April 20, 2007
Location: Right here! Alignment: Scum
Contact:

Post Post #10 (ISO) » Tue May 29, 2007 2:17 pm

Post by beanbagboy »

TCS... I know who you're talking about... and I TOTALLY agree.

I feel that you shouldn't do it unless they're REALLY doing it more than usual.
Meh... I got distracted by something shiny, leaving MS. Possibly returnage soonfuls.
User avatar
Simenon
Simenon
Entitled
User avatar
User avatar
Simenon
Entitled
Entitled
Posts: 3496
Joined: October 11, 2006
Location: Chicago

Post Post #11 (ISO) » Tue May 29, 2007 2:26 pm

Post by Simenon »

I really dislike players applying meta game tactics like "let's lynch this player in this game so he'll learn in the next one". It rarely works, and you end up losing individual games because you cared too much about the game as a whole.
SEND THE VECTOIDS
User avatar
Adel
Adel
Crystalline Logick
User avatar
User avatar
Adel
Crystalline Logick
Crystalline Logick
Posts: 6743
Joined: May 23, 2007
Location: Central Oregon / High Desert

Post Post #12 (ISO) » Tue May 29, 2007 4:09 pm

Post by Adel »

The chances of this player being pro-town each game are good, so if you can, just mitigating the distraction will benefit town the most.

Maybe you can try treating this player's posts like a black box, where you ignore what is contained in them and references to what is contained in them, and only vote for that person if hard evidence is presented (cop investigation) or you give more than even odds that all other players are pro-town. This would help in the majority of games played with ZZZZZZ.
User avatar
Elias_the_thief
Elias_the_thief
He/Him
Not Statistically Significant
User avatar
User avatar
Elias_the_thief
He/Him
Not Statistically Significant
Not Statistically Significant
Posts: 3194
Joined: August 15, 2006
Pronoun: He/Him
Location: Maryland.

Post Post #13 (ISO) » Tue May 29, 2007 4:22 pm

Post by Elias_the_thief »

I think I know who youre talking about. If you dont, then there are more than one of these players running around the site. The person I'm referring to is planning to take a hiatus from the site for a while, so the problem may lessen.
I play the games rul gud.
User avatar
IH
IH
Always Scum
User avatar
User avatar
IH
Always Scum
Always Scum
Posts: 4247
Joined: August 7, 2006
Location: Atlanta, Ga

Post Post #14 (ISO) » Tue May 29, 2007 4:22 pm

Post by IH »

TCS, I need to ask you.

Does the abbreviation have two letters or three.
Untrod Tripod (7:27:18 PM): you enjoy whoring
xcaykex (7:27:24 PM): yes
xcaykex (7:27:26 PM): i know that
User avatar
Mr. Flay
Mr. Flay
Metatron
User avatar
User avatar
Mr. Flay
Metatron
Metatron
Posts: 24969
Joined: March 12, 2004
Location: Gormenghast
Contact:

Post Post #15 (ISO) » Tue May 29, 2007 5:03 pm

Post by Mr. Flay »

Stop trying to guess it, guys. SRSLY, it's not helpful.
Retired as of October 2014.
User avatar
theopor_COD
theopor_COD
PhD'oh!
User avatar
User avatar
theopor_COD
PhD'oh!
PhD'oh!
Posts: 2515
Joined: January 14, 2007

Post Post #16 (ISO) » Tue May 29, 2007 5:07 pm

Post by theopor_COD »

I actually think his play is improving somewhat.
User avatar
pablito
pablito
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
pablito
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3739
Joined: January 5, 2006
Location: en route somewhere else
Contact:

Post Post #17 (ISO) » Tue May 29, 2007 6:00 pm

Post by pablito »

Some players (hell probably me too) have quirks that look detrimental to the town on the surface during D1. But I've found that looking at who brings up these quirks and when can be an important discussion topic and can give information on distraction and projection techniques by players in the game. You can uncover some good tells when you look at that stuff.

I think that negatively labelling a player says as much about as the targetted player as the labeller. And there's also likely a communication failure between those players no matter whose fault it is.
Sup, later.
User avatar
Nightson
Nightson
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Nightson
Goon
Goon
Posts: 719
Joined: May 7, 2006
Location: California

Post Post #18 (ISO) » Tue May 29, 2007 10:52 pm

Post by Nightson »

I totally don't know who you're talking about.
"Faust complained about having two souls in his breast, but I harbor a whole crowd of them and they quarrel. It is like being in a republic." ~Otto von Bismarck
User avatar
Thestatusquo
Thestatusquo
He/Him
Shea

User avatar
User avatar
Thestatusquo
He/Him
Shea

Shea

Posts: 14362
Joined: July 27, 2006
Pronoun: He/Him
Location: Chicago!

Post Post #19 (ISO) » Tue May 29, 2007 11:16 pm

Post by Thestatusquo »

I do. And it's not nightson.
tout comprendre c'est tout pardonner
User avatar
The Central Scrutinizer
The Central Scrutinizer
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
The Central Scrutinizer
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3100
Joined: August 18, 2006
Location: Illinois

Post Post #20 (ISO) » Wed May 30, 2007 12:24 am

Post by The Central Scrutinizer »

Well, aside from me. I seem to have the same effect in a lot of my games, so maybe I should look to my own house. :o
"You might very well think that; I couldn't
possibly
comment."
User avatar
Albert B. Rampage
Albert B. Rampage
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
Albert B. Rampage
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 27261
Joined: April 8, 2007
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico

Post Post #21 (ISO) » Wed May 30, 2007 1:58 am

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

Okay, I don't want to name anybody, BUT YOU MEAN BATTLE MAGE RIGHT !?!?!??! :D:D:D

*cats out of the bag*

PS: I think he deserves at least the respect of being named when half the players who posted know who TCS is talking about.
Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the bastards.
User avatar
JDodge
JDodge
Accept it
User avatar
User avatar
JDodge
Accept it
Accept it
Posts: 5926
Joined: May 6, 2005
Location: Atop my cloud
Contact:

Post Post #22 (ISO) » Wed May 30, 2007 2:11 am

Post by JDodge »

Albert B. Rampage wrote:PS: I think he deserves at least the respect of being named when half the players who posted know who TCS is talking about.
I didn't. I'm too out of the loop.
User avatar
The Central Scrutinizer
The Central Scrutinizer
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
The Central Scrutinizer
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3100
Joined: August 18, 2006
Location: Illinois

Post Post #23 (ISO) » Wed May 30, 2007 2:36 am

Post by The Central Scrutinizer »

Yeah, I mean BM. And it's not just that he's always a little scummy. People seem to think I'm scummy a lot, which I don't entirely get. It's that he can derail legitimate bandwagons with his mere presence in the game. It's that he openly and blatantly says, "yeah I'm scummy as hell, but it's worth it to screw up the games in which I'm town in order to have cover when I'm scum."
"You might very well think that; I couldn't
possibly
comment."
User avatar
Glork
Glork
Burdened by Proficiency
User avatar
User avatar
Glork
Burdened by Proficiency
Burdened by Proficiency
Posts: 14106
Joined: July 13, 2005
Location: Dance into the fire

Post Post #24 (ISO) » Wed May 30, 2007 5:17 am

Post by Glork »

The Central Scrutinizer wrote:It's that he openly and blatantly says, "yeah I'm scummy as hell, but it's worth it to screw up the games in which I'm town in order to have cover when I'm scum."
I will never understand this sentiment, even though I've seen a handful of players hold it. :?
Green Shirt Thursdays


Get to know a Glork!
Post Reply

Return to “Mafia Discussion”