Open 20 - Pie E7 (Game over) - before 453

[Simenon]

Experience has taught me Ripley is never "dumb".

Fos: Ripley

[Patrick]

I think I've probably missed some link in the chain of argument here. I can't get from Jordan being scum trying to fish out a cop in one sentence, to Jordan calling the same player a roleblocker in the next. It just confuses me. Why a roleblocker? Sorry if I'm being dumb. It happens.

He could first be trying to clarify whether or not Simenon is a cop with a guilty on him, which would help him if he's scum, then throw in an offhand accusation that maybe Simenon is mafia (specifically, the mafia roleblocker).

[CrashTextDummie]

Vote Count

:

JordanA24

(2):

Simenon, Patrick

Patrick

(1):

Teffc

Ripley

(1)]:

Paradoxombie

Simenon

(1):

JordanA24

Paradoxombie

(1):

Aimee

Not voting

(1):

Ripley

7 alive, 4 to lynch.

[Paradoxombie]

These attacks on Jordan are justified, but have have yet to convince anyone(I hope) that Jordan is a worthy day 1 lynch

On the other hand I'm finding Simenon's play extremely suspicious. You keep suggesting that you have reasons for your original vote against Jordan, and I don't buy that. And I definitely don't believe that you've actually somehow posted your reasons.

You're definitely looking alot worse than Jordan to me

Vote: Simenon

[Simenon]

On the other hand I'm finding Simenon's play extremely suspicious. You keep suggesting that you have reasons for your original vote against Jordan, and I don't buy that. And I definitely don't believe that you've actually somehow posted your reasons.

I do have reasons for my original vote, minor tells, but those are irrelevant. I haven't posted my original reasons, that's correct, but now that they are irrelevant and my vote is being justified by reasons now visible in the thread (which you yourself said was justifyable), there is no reason to post them now.

Let me say- I had my reasons. But I didn't post them. And I didn't post them because I thought the better play was not to post them.

[Simenon]

This is a good resource for what exactly I'm trying to communicate.

[JordanA24]

Suppose I can't criticise people for having different playstyles, but it's still kind of suspicious. Vote stands.

[Teffc]

hiya again.

I've read through the previous posts and they seem all confusing.

Jordan does look suspicious through his eaggerness to lynch scum( post 25) when put under pressure, maybe to deflect atention from him, and also through his suppositions on the cop/roleblocker position.
THis correlated with his admitting to mistakes and lack of strong arguments for his point of view and what seems to me some mistakes in his logic - when put under pressure- can be some scum tells

I have played mafia in real life and there it's really harder to create and structure an argumentation so i do not see some real reasons to Jordan's not using valid arguments to convince us except the ad misericordiam ones.

FOS Jordan

but i've seen a bit of scummy behavior when it comes to some other players:

Simenon, you seem to have placed your vote on Jordan and trying hard to justify it is right, even before J said what he did. And you also say you enjoyed watching J squirm...that sounds more like the killer instinct that's supposed to come with a mafia position...

And Patrick...maybe i do not have a sense of humor but your statements about being always pro-town and insisting on voting jordan...and just as SIm keeping your vote and trying to prove you are right...

And Ripley... well...

I can see this argument, and at the same time, trying to put myself in the position of the jumpy scum (obviously difficult for someone who has led such a life of virtue as myself, but anyway)... if you thought there might be a player with a guilty result on you, would you actually post that in the thread? What would you gain from that?

well...i do not get his reasoning

[Teffc]

p.s i have 3 exams next week and i'll check in when i have time

[Patrick]

And Patrick...maybe i do not have a sense of humor but your statements about being always pro-town and insisting on voting jordan...and just as SIm keeping your vote and trying to prove you are right...

I thought it was reasonably obvious that I was joking in the early stages of the game. Random voting stage, banter and a bit of messing around. If you look at just about any game, you will see most games start like that.

You've said you're suspicious of Jordan for his suppositions about the cop. You've then said that you don't get my reasoning, even though I'm also suspicious of him for that reason. What part of my reasoning are you not understanding?

[Teffc]

i am trying to see stuff from more than one point of view. don't you? that's how i play the game. see the + and - . i cannot make out who the scum is if i only take an onesided view.

[Patrick]

Yes, I agree. However I've only seen one person being scummy so far. If I see others I'll point them out. For now Jordan looks the worst to me. That doesn't mean I'm suuggesting we lynch him anytime soon.

[Simenon]

that sounds more like the killer instinct that's supposed to come with a mafia position...

I'd be much happier to see scum squirm as town than as scum.

[JordanA24]

And what says that I'm necessarily scum? I've made a mistake, I hold my hand up and admit that, one mistake doesn't always mean that a player's scum.

[Simenon]

We have to trust your word for it that you made a mistake and I don't trust you particularly.

If Jordan was town, I think there would be much more enthusiasm for his lynch by now.

[JordanA24]

We have to trust your word for it that you made a mistake and I don't trust you particularly.

If Jordan was town, I think there would be much more enthusiasm for his lynch by now.

If I were scum, there'd only be 1 other mafia, but I've only had 2 votes and 1 FOS so far.

[Ripley]

I think why this whole Jordan business seems complicated to me is that the same remark:

I really hope that wasn't a badly premature cop claim.

... is being used as evidence for two separate charges:

1. The very fact that Jordan thought "cop" implies a guilty conscience and
2. The actual post is, either accidentally or deliberately, fishing for information about Simenon's role.

There are further complications brought about by the fact that there hadn't been a night yet. Jordan claims not to have realised this, or to know that the cop is sane in this setup. And the roleblocker comment that followed still puzzles me somewhat. What exactly did you mean by it, Jordan? Did you mean that if Simenon were the Mafia roleblocker, in the hypothetical Night 1 that never actually happened, that this would be an alternative explanation for his conviction you were scum? If not, what?

My difficulties with all this are really those I've said already: (a) that I have doubts whether a guilty person would react as Jordan did to the idea of a cop with a result on them, and (b) that if Jordan were scum he'd surely be aware there had been no night and therefore no possibility of a cop result on anyone.

It would be far simpler, by comparison, if there had been a night and a

different

player had made Jordan's comment about a premature cop claim.

I'm aware I may be overthinking this and Jordan's a scum who just blurted out his remarks without any real thought or plan. I'm still on the fence with this one.

Aimee, where are you? What do you make of all this?

[JordanA24]

There are further complications brought about by the fact that there hadn't been a night yet. Jordan claims not to have realised this, or to know that the cop is sane in this setup. And the roleblocker comment that followed still puzzles me somewhat. What exactly did you mean by it, Jordan? Did you mean that if Simenon were the Mafia roleblocker, in the hypothetical Night 1 that never actually happened, that this would be an alternative explanation for his conviction you were scum? If not, what?

I meant if Simenon wasn't cop, how could he be so sure I was scum? Maybe he wasn't even the roleblocker, but the goon, not sure, but I was really wondering (and suspicious) how he could be so sure I was scum on Page 2 unless he was an insane or paranoid cop (now known to be impossible) or mafia. The fact there's been no night to any investigations or talking and he's refusing to disclose why he's so sure makes me even more curious/suspicious.

[Aimee]

Simenon, I am at a loss to see why hiding information is at all beneficial to the town (with the exception of some cases, e.g. cops and their results etc.)

Jordan, are you saying your mistake is that you forgot that this game started in day?

[JordanA24]

Simenon, I am at a loss to see why hiding information is at all beneficial to the town (with the exception of some cases, e.g. cops and their results etc.)

Jordan, are you saying your mistake is that you forgot that this game started in day?

Pretty much so.

[Simenon]

Simenon, I am at a loss to see why hiding information is at all beneficial to the town (with the exception of some cases, e.g. cops and their results etc.)

It's a highly debatable tell- now that there are other, more valid reasons for voting jordan, it would lead to an unecessary slap-fight.

[JordanA24]

Simenon, I am at a loss to see why hiding information is at all beneficial to the town (with the exception of some cases, e.g. cops and their results etc.)

It's a highly debatable tell- now that there are other, more valid reasons for voting jordan, it would lead to an unecessary slap-fight.

For crying out loud Sim, just tell us.

[Teffc]

Ok...i am sitting this one out but i can't get one thing: what info can you have if there was no night and we have this given setup? I know i have to get outside the box but your logic is too out there for me.

And Jordan! the more you say the more tangled in your affirmations you get.

[JordanA24]

Ok...i am sitting this one out but i can't get one thing: what info can you have if there was no night and we have this given setup? I know i have to get outside the box but your logic is too out there for me.

And Jordan! the more you say the more tangled in your affirmations you get.

I just want Sim to say what evidence he has against me, because this seems to be all the suspicions on me started.

[Aimee]

I will be on holiday from Monday through to Sunday. No access at all. Mod, you know I will be back. Replacement not needed.