Open 20 - Pie E7 (Game over) - before 453

[CrashTextDummie]

Vote Count

:

JordanA24

(2):

Simenon, Patrick

Simenon

(2):

JordanA24, Paradoxombie

Paradoxombie

(1):

Aimee

Patrick

(1):

Teffc

Not voting

(1):

Ripley

7 alive, 4 to lynch.

[Simenon]

It's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevant It's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevantIt's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevantIt's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevantIt's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevantIt's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevantIt's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevantIt's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevantIt's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevantIt's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevantIt's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevant

what thoughts I had BEFORE. It makes absolutely no sense to disclose them at this time to me. Sorry, sweetie.

[JordanA24]

It's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevant It's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevantIt's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevantIt's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevantIt's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevantIt's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevantIt's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevantIt's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevantIt's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevantIt's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevantIt's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevant it's irrelevant

what thoughts I had BEFORE. It makes absolutely no sense to disclose them at this time to me. Sorry, sweetie.

Looks like I'm not getting anything out of you,

unvote

. Glad this nonsense has ended.

[Aimee]

unvote

[Teffc]

I'm back from one chaotic overdose of exams and will try to review all posts made because the discussion seems to be at a stand-still.

[CrashTextDummie]

... the discussion seems to be at a stand-still.

*nods*

I'm issuing a tentative deadline for Sunday June 17th Midnight GMT +1 (one week after Aimee's return), to be lifted if discussion picks up.

[Patrick]

Hmm, it seems we have stalled after a promising start. Let's get talking again because we definitely need to get more out of this before ending the day. I certainly hope we can get the deadline rescinded.

Jordan dropped (what is in my opinion) a scum tell in this game, which alot of the discussion has focussed around. His explanation seems to use a hint of WIFOM, and haven't particularly convinced me. And saying, "I'm a newbie who made a mistake" is pretty null, I can see it from inexperienced scum or town. I wasn't sure whether or not to mention his post 25, which caught my eye first time round, because it may be too nitpicky, but he claims that Simenon could only be sure of him being scum if Simenon was a cop, or if Simenon himself was scum. Jordan seems to allow for the possibility that he is scum with Simenon here, which just seemed odd. That said, maybe I just need to get used to his posting style. I'm happy with my vote on him for now, as I haven't seen a reason to change it.

Simenon starts out looking for trouble, as usual, and jumps on the same thing as I did on Jordan. Is acting weird about not giving his earlier reasons for suspecting Jordan; I don't see how it's going to lead to a slap fight. The fact that there is a counterwagon of sorts against Simenon based largely on what seems to be Simenon just being Simenon, makes me feel a little better about him. Possible being used as a distraction if Jordan is scum.

Ripley starts off the game with more joking than usual, then a little theory/meta of the previous pie c9's, then talks about Jordan. Plays devils advocate on the Jordan issue, has yet to take a firm stand on anything. I'm still thinking about the validity of his points; they seem logical enough mostly, I'm just not sure if they are right being applied in this case, which to be fair Ripley acknowledged he might be overthinking. I can see where Simenon is coming from in saying it's Jordan/Ripley, but it's obviously overstated at this stage.

Paradoxombie only has two posts in the entire game; the first one was a vote for Ripley with the stated reasoning that Ripley not voting is an old scumtell. I wasn't sure if he was joking, and might have mentioned it as a way to start conversation, though from the lack of any reaction or followup it seems it was probably a joke. I don't know if I'm just becoming too fixated on Jordan being scum here, but Paradox's second post strikes me as potential distancing from Jordan, whilst finding a different wagon to move onto. I think he somewhat overstates his case against Simenon here.

Teffc seems to have taken a few jokey comments early on much too seriously, and bases most of her analysis of me on stuff where I wasn't serious at all. Shows appropriate caution, FoSes Jordan rather than third vote. I don't really get a scumvibe at this early stage.

And finally Aimee, who hasn't really posted content, and won't for a while because she's on holiday. Fairly typical Aimee, but I want to see something substantial when she gets back.

-----

Ripley - got any thoughts yet on who is scum?

[JordanA24]

Jordan dropped (what is in my opinion) a scum tell in this game, which alot of the discussion has focussed around. His explanation seems to use a hint of WIFOM, and haven't particularly convinced me. And saying, "I'm a newbie who made a mistake" is pretty null, I can see it from inexperienced scum or town. I wasn't sure whether or not to mention his post 25, which caught my eye first time round, because it may be too nitpicky, but he claims that Simenon could only be sure of him being scum if Simenon was a cop, or if Simenon himself was scum. Jordan seems to allow for the possibility that he is scum with Simenon here, which just seemed odd. That said, maybe I just need to get used to his posting style. I'm happy with my vote on him for now, as I haven't seen a reason to change it.

The fact I'm a newbie doesn't make it any more likely to be scum than anyone else, newbies make mistakes, it's part of the learning curve. I don't think Post 25 was suspicious, there should be much more frequent posting at the start of a game. And I can't see where I said I could scumbuddies with Sim.

[Teffc]

Well it will be pretty hard to keep this game afloat with people not really being round.
After re-reading i'm not getting something that i could call a clear scummy vibe.
It's possible Jordan made a mistake or something.If so, then we're not really back to the drawing board, but somewhere rather close.

Else... well, we'll see.
I know i haven't been posting all that much. But maybe we'll get a fair amount of posts from all.
I am a bit suspcious of the ...dream team... Patrick- Simenon...but i'm always suspicious of aliances during mafia games.

[Patrick]

The fact I'm a newbie doesn't make it any more likely to be scum than anyone else, newbies make mistakes, it's part of the learning curve. I don't think Post 25 was suspicious, there should be much more frequent posting at the start of a game. And I can't see where I said I could scumbuddies with Sim.

Where did I ever say that being a newbie makes it more likely someone is scum...?

You said that one way Simenon could know you were mafia is if he were mafia. Ergo, the two of you would be mafia together.

I am a bit suspcious of the ...dream team... Patrick- Simenon...but i'm always suspicious of aliances during mafia games.

Agreeing on one point about Jordan does not mean that two players are aligned together.

[JordanA24]

You said that one way Simenon could know you were mafia is if he were mafia. Ergo, the two of you would be mafia together.

If that isn't flawed logic, I don't know what is, why on Earth would I try outing myself and my buddy like that, I'm a newbie, but I'm not stupid.

Vote: Patrick

[Simenon]

If I've learned any lesson from 313- it's go after someone and focus on scumbuddies later.

[Patrick]

I said that in your post 25 you allowed for the possibility that the pair of you could be scum together -

I meant if Simenon wasn't cop, how could he be so sure I was scum? Maybe he wasn't even the roleblocker, but the goon, not sure, but I was really wondering (and suspicious) how he could be so sure I was scum on Page 2 unless he was an insane or paranoid cop (now known to be impossible) or mafia. The fact there's been no night to any investigations or talking and he's refusing to disclose why he's so sure makes me even more curious/suspicious.

You said one way he could be sure you are mafia is if he is as well. The assumption there from you is that you are mafia and only your mafia buddy (or cop) could know that. Such as seems to be your mindset this game. I did say I'm not sure if you're scum or if you are just saying stuff in a way that came across as weird to me (afterall nobody else commented on it).

I didn't say that I thought you'd actually slipped and admitted to being scum with him; I actually find that scumpairing quite unlikely. Your vote on me is poorly reasoned and OMGUSy.

After Preview: Yarr Simenon. True.

[Ripley]

Ripley - got any thoughts yet on who is scum?

Nothing concrete at this stage. I'm hoping for a lot more discussion once Aimee gets back and for the deadline to be removed.

I am mildly suspicious of Aimee for steering so clear of the whole Jordan business, which blew up well before her departure. She comments on the "Simenon hiding information" issue, which was surely a much lesser issue, and asks Jordan a question ("Jordan, are you saying your mistake is that you forgot that this game started in day? "not a very useful question IMO, since I thought we already knew the answer to it was "yes") - and that's it. I found that strange.

I wasn't sure whether or not to mention his post 25, which caught my eye first time round, because it may be too nitpicky, but he claims that Simenon could only be sure of him being scum if Simenon was a cop, or if Simenon himself was scum. Jordan seems to allow for the possibility that he is scum with Simenon here, which just seemed odd.

I was wondering if anybody would comment on this post. It seemed that I was the only one interested in Jordan's earlier comment that Simenon might also be "the roleblocker we're looking for." I asked him to explain it, and I thought his explanation was weird for the very reason Patrick gives here. Has Jordan forgotten what he was thinking when he made the roleblocker remark, or has he tied himself up into a scummy knot? I didn't say any of this because by then I had reached the sort of stage you get to when nobody other than yourself is interested in pursuing something; eventually you start doubting your own reasoning.

Simenon - I know from experience that he and I have very different styles and opinions. I almost invariably disagree with most of what he says, on Day 1 especially, and yet as far as I can recall I haven't played with him when he's been scum. For these reasons I find it really hard to give an opinion of Simenon. If I hadn't met him before I'd be much more suspicious.

Paradoxombie seems to agree with Aimee's (implied) opinion that the Simenon Refusal to Divulge Scumtell Scandal is a bigger deal than the Jordan Dual RoleFish Outrage, and I disagree with that. I find it irritating that Simenon, if protown, wouldn't just put the issue to rest since it's in danger of becoming a serious distraction, but I don't find it in any way out of character. Paradoxombie's lack of posting is starting to become suspicious in itself, though Aimee's not been much better and can't blame it all on her recent absence.

No time now to consider the posts that have been made since I started writing (109-111).

[Simenon]

[Simenon - I know from experience that he and I have very different styles and opinions. I almost invariably disagree with most of what he says, on Day 1 especially, and yet as far as I can recall I haven't played with him when he's been scum. For these reasons I find it really hard to give an opinion of Simenon. If I hadn't met him before I'd be much more suspicious.

Nah. I <3 my Ripley.
:shrug:, I don't remember disagreeing with you much in the two or so games we played together.

I feel the distraction would lie in what I say. As I have said, my former reasoning is completely irrelevant, and could be used by ze opportunistic scum. Since there is no scummy aspect about my previous thinking, I don't feel obliged to disclose it.

What I see is an attempt to make a big ado about nothing. Let's not exaggerate the seriousness of this- I voted without an originally posted reason, because something turned me off, and jordan was wonderful (let's give him a hand) and provided me with another reason to vote him.

So, I ask for those who are voting me for this- what exactly could I accomplish as scum by refusing to disclose my reasoning and what exactly is scummy about me doing so?

[JordanA24]

You said one way he could be sure you are mafia is if he is as well.

No, what I meant was he might have been scum trying to frame a townie. I ask again, why would I try outing myself and my scumbuddy for no good reason. My vote was not 'poorly reasoned and OMGUSy' and you know it.

[Patrick]

On Simenon, it had crossed my mind that he was being deliberately stubborn there to see what might come of it. I agree that it's really minor compared to other stuff.

No, what I meant was he might have been scum trying to frame a townie. I ask again, why would I try outing myself and my scumbuddy for no good reason. My vote was not 'poorly reasoned and OMGUSy' and you know it.

Ah, I can actually see how you might have been saying that. As in, he seemed so sure you were scum not because you were scum together, but because he was just trying to push hard for a townie lynch. That's a fair explanation I guess. However, your vote is certainly poorly reasoned. I never said that you would try to out yourself and your hypothetical scumbuddy and am not sure how you've interpretted it that way. I said that alot of stuff your posting seems to come from the mindset of you being scum, and I'm trying to work out if that's because you are scum or if you come at it from this unusual angle which I'm not used to seeing.

[JordanA24]

On Simenon, it had crossed my mind that he was being deliberately stubborn there to see what might come of it. I agree that it's really minor compared to other stuff.

No, what I meant was he might have been scum trying to frame a townie. I ask again, why would I try outing myself and my scumbuddy for no good reason. My vote was not 'poorly reasoned and OMGUSy' and you know it.

Ah, I can actually see how you might have been saying that. As in, he seemed so sure you were scum not because you were scum together, but because he was just trying to push hard for a townie lynch. That's a fair explanation I guess. However, your vote is certainly poorly reasoned. I never said that you would try to out yourself and your hypothetical scumbuddy and am not sure how you've interpretted it that way. I said that alot of stuff your posting seems to come from the mindset of you being scum, and I'm trying to work out if that's because you are scum or if you come at it from this unusual angle which I'm not used to seeing.

Post 109 looked like poor logic to me, but I suppose I understand your reasoning.

Unvote

[Paradoxombie]

I feel the distraction would lie in what I say. As I have said, my former reasoning is completely irrelevant, and could be used by ze opportunistic scum. Since there is no scummy aspect about my previous thinking, I don't feel obliged to disclose it.

So you are admitting your original reason would be suspicious, but we should take your word for that we would actually be wrong in our suspicion?

That sounds like you're trying to think for the rest of the town. I don't like when people try to make up my mind for me.

And please stop saying it's irrelevent, I'm not arguing about Jordan at all.

[Simenon]

So you are admitting your original reason would be suspicious, but we should take your word for that we would actually be wrong in our suspicion?

That sounds like you're trying to think for the rest of the town. I don't like when people try to make up my mind for me.

And please stop saying it's irrelevent, I'm not arguing about Jordan at all.

No. Don't put words in my mouth.
I'm saying that I had a reason that I don't feel like sharing, as it would only serve to be a distraction. It is irrelevant- there is no positive gain I can see by disclosing my reason. At all. Hell, for all you know, I may have even forgotten my original reasoning. That's how little impact it has on this game.

I so little understand the second half of your post I'm not going to bother responding to it.

[JordanA24]

If your reasoning for voting me isn't important, why are you still voting me?

[Simenon]

My original reasoning is what we have argued about. I still like my vote for the rest of your posts.

[JordanA24]

And I'm not liking some of your posts either:

'cuz he's obv scum with Ripley.

I have my reasons, actually, but I'd rather not spill them at this particular time.

What's the 'at this particular time' about? Not so willing to spill them now are we? I'm still confused as to why they might provoke an 'unneccesary slap fight'.

It was fun to watch jordan squirm.

that sounds more like the killer instinct that's supposed to come with a mafia position...

I'd be much happier to see scum squirm as town than as scum.

Completely needless spamming.

We have to trust your word for it that you made a mistake and I don't trust you particularly.

If Jordan was town, I think there would be much more enthusiasm for his lynch by now.

Why? If I were scum, there'd be only one more scum trying to make me seem town, in this case, quite a bit of the town disagree with you. I think your trying to appeal to emotion here and trying to pressure people into voting for me, and then covering your tracks by being the first on a bandwagon.

Vote: Sim

[Simenon]

What's the 'at this particular time' about? Not so willing to spill them now are we? I'm still confused as to why they might provoke an 'unneccesary slap fight'.

Nope, still not willing to give my reasons.

Completely needless spamming.

Nope.

Why? If I were scum, there'd be only one more scum trying to make me seem town, in this case, quite a bit of the town disagree with you.

This shows a lack of mafia understanding.
The scum win by mislynching. That's the only way they can possibly win the game by mafia with a reasonable town. Hence, if you were town, my thoughts are that the scum would be much more enthusiastic then they seem now, because are the only players in this game that benefit from seeing a pro town player lynched.
If you are scum, which I believe, the other scum does not want to see you lynched, because that would equal a bad position tomorrow. Therefore, the scum aren't going to as enthusiastic around a townie lynch than a scum lynch.
These players aren't really jumping to wagon you, are they?

I think your trying to appeal to emotion here and trying to pressure people into voting for me,

I don't think you know what appeal to emotion means.

and then covering your tracks by being the first on a bandwagon

I'd advise you think long and hard about how silly this statement is before you actually ask me to respond to it.
Your post was cute, but unfortunately fell short of the "thinking it all through" requirement.

[JordanA24]

I was sort of understanding your reasoning, until I hit this:

I think your trying to appeal to emotion here and trying to pressure people into voting for me,

I don't think you know what appeal to emotion means.

and then covering your tracks by being the first on a bandwagon

I'd advise you think long and hard about how silly this statement is before you actually ask me to respond to it.
Your post was cute, but unfortunately fell short of the "thinking it all through" requirement.

First of all, I do know what appeal to emotion means, and you are trying to pressure people, you may as well be saying "If you don't start voting for this guy, then you'll start looking scummy as well."

And my statement wasn't silly, it's a well established scum tactic to try and cover their tracks after a mislynch, as then they go after the 2nd and 3rd on the bandwagon. And besides, wheres a mislynch going to start if somebody (usually scum) doesn't get the ball rolling?

And if those other two posts weren't useless spam, then what were they?