Mafiascum.net

This is a deviation from normal mafia in that it's played effectively backwards. The game mechanics are explained in detail in the second post of this thread.


johhan
Relph
Vel-Rahn Koon
Yosarian2
LoudmouthLee
logicticus
DeanWinchester
KaleiÐoscøpe
Patrick
yellowbounder
Zindaras
Machiavellian-Mafia


Nobody


Nobody

The game is currently .

The first phase is Day 0.25, in which all twelve players may speak and vote for one player whom they wish to revive. This is done with lynching mechanics (simple majority). Once a decision is reached the game progresses to Day 0.5, in which all players must again revive a player, but obviously not the same player. Repeat on Day 0.75.

After this, 3 players will be alive and 9 dead. If at this point the mafia outnumber the town then the mafia win. If not, the most likely outcome, the game moves into Night 1. Any and all night choices are carried out by only the players who are alive, and they may only target other living players unless their role explicitly says that they may target limbo players as well, except that no killing will be allowed on Night 1.

In the morning, Day 1 begins. All players may again speak, and again the aim is to revive a player, but now only living players may vote. At the end of the day a player will be made living and Night 2 begins.

This continues until either side's win condition is fulfilled, and they are:

Mafia: More living mafia than living town players.
Town: Either: all of the pro-town players revived (it is not required that all pro-town players survive after being revived though), half of the total pro-town players alive, or all mafia dead.

Also, to ensure that you cannot determine who is mafia based on when nightkills start to happen, I have assigned each member of the mafia a randomly generated value that determines whether they may or may not kill on the first night after they are revived.

At day you may use any methods to get players revived that you would to get them lynched or saved from lynch in a normal mafia game. This includes claiming, if you so desire.


-Night 1 exists purely as an opportunity for scum to talk amongst themselves.
-The town win condition 'all mafia dead' is impossible. Don't try to win that way.


(Twisted and mangled from SpeedyKQ, whose game I was reading at time of writing)

[1] DO NOT quote your role PMs directly – you must paraphrase the wording. If you are unsure as to what is acceptable, ask me via PM.
[2] Your votes and unvotes must be in bold ()
[3] You must unvote before you can change your vote. () Unvotes must be in bold.
[4] You may not discuss the game outside this thread unless your role permits you to. If someone approaches you to discuss the game without me telling you they can do so please report it to me.
[5] Once you are dead you may not post, except for a single post consisting of “bah, go town/scum” or something similar.
[6] If you wish to end the day without a lynch you may . A majority of these votes is required to end the day without a lynch.
[7] My deadline policy is as such: if I feel that discussion has slowed sufficiently I will first impose a retractable deadline and send prods to all living players. If halfway to this deadline I still do not feel that discussion has improved the deadline will become non-retractable. When the deadline strikes the day will end with no lynch.
[8] Leave any grudges at the door. Personal attacks will not be tolerated.
[9] I have no problem with codes, invisible type or small letters.
[10] If you want a player prodded, please request so in thread. I will also prod any players if and when I feel it is appropriate.
[11] Have fun!

Each player will receive one of the following two PMs:

Scum PM wrote:You are

Scum

and your partner(s) are

Player(s)

. You can talk to them at night and during the pregame stage, and may discuss who to kill, if one or more of your group is able to do so. You win when there are more living mafia than living town players.

You

may/may not

kill on the first night after you are revived.

Please confirm by PM.

Town PM wrote:You are part of the

Town

. You don't have any abilities other than the vote. You win with the town.

Please confirm by PM.

When all confirms are in the game will begin in Day 0.25.

Haut Boy has informed me that he needs to be replaced. Once that replacement goes through we'll go into Day.

johhan replaces Haut Boy.

All confirms are in, so let's begin.

First post, and no random votes from me...

The idea of random votes to stimulate discussion is somewhat contrived here, as we're voting for a "good" result (back to live) comparitavely to a "bad" result (lynching). So, instead, this turns into an incredible exercise of Metagaming. Does anyone have any ideas on how we can determine who's scum and who's town? Here are some of my thoughts on ways we can do this:

(a) Voting Patterns. In this game, we cannot bandwagon for information (since votes are good). I would like to propose the following a "FoS" count to be instituted by the town. If we find someone suspicious (that would generally consitiute a vote), you FoS them. When you no longer find them suspicious, you unFoS them. , don't want to give you more work, but could you keep count of that for us as well if the town so chooses? Otherwise, we can keep track of it as a town. Keeping a running tally of all of this information is very important.

(b) Reminder of limited information: This is a limited reveal game, as when we normally lynch someone, their allignment is known by the town right away. Since we're promoting people to the real world again, we need to remember that even when we "promote" someone, we do NOT find out their allignment right away.

(c) Developing a solid game plan: The key to a town victory here is to create a game plan and adjust only when necessary.

This is going to be a very difficult game for the town especially, mainly because we have such limited information. Does anyone have any ideas on how to go about this?

I agree that this isn't going to be very easy for us, and the previous incarnation of this game is very little help as well. I'm glad that things have been simplified in that we only have vanilla town or scum, but we still have all the issues you mentioned LmL.

A)Are you seeing this as working as it did during the MafiaScum Marathon games on the anniversary? I'm willing to go that route as it will prevent us rezzing anyone before we've had a great deal of discussion.

B)Discussion is our friend more than anything in this game. Discussion on the first day (or first 0.25 day) is going to be more important than a normal mafia game.

C)I have some ideas here, but I think that spelling it out may give hints to the scum. Is this something we're willing to do? Do we want to discuss strategy to such a great detail that we give the scum a way to slip through and find holes in our arguments that they can exploit?

Last time we just went about doing random things and eventually revived a couple of players, one of them (annoyingly, me) mostly on the basis of a Cop claim. Of course, the Cop turned out to be insane and then lost the game, which was rather annoying and bastardish, which is probably why this is a Vanilla game.

Day 2, the first real Day, the mod installed Karma, a pseudo-voting thing for the players in limbo. It would probably be a good idea to use it Day 1 as well.

As for the rest, funnily enough, I've actually went over Voting Patterns for the earlier Reverse Mafia for a game with a comparable voting thing, so that may prove to be helpful.



People will offer themselves up to be revived. That's how the game moves on. Yossy and yellowbounder, who were in the original game (like me) should be able to remember it.

Zindaras just mentioned it before I managed to, but yes, you can use what I used in the last Reverse Mafia - Karma.

If you feel someone is scummy, you may give them Bad Karma. This will reduce their 'karma score' by 1, even if it goes into negative numbers.
If you feel someone is behaving well, you may give them Good Karma. This will increase their 'karma score' by 1.
I will keep track of every player's karma score alongside vote counts.
You can only ever give a player 1 point of karma either way.

Have fun!

Please bold Karma "votes" like you would regular votes, in the format .

Zindaras wrote:People will offer themselves up to be revived. That's how the game moves on.

Yup, pretty much.

Basically, the key thing to remember when voting is that the three people we revive before day 1 will determine how the rest of the game goes (or, if the rest of the game goes). If we pick 2 scum, we lose. If we get to day 1 and there's 1 scum, we're at a sort of reverse lynch or lose situation, where if one pro-town person who's alive votes to revive a scum, the scum jumps on and we lose. So, basically, when reviving, we want to pick people who A. we think aren't scum, and, to a lesser extent, B., whom we would want to bet on their judgement in not picking the wrong person in a lynch or lose situation.

On another note, untill someone has a better suggestion about who to vote for, I might as well .

Looks to me like we can still play mafia like normal, except instead of voting for the suspicious people to lynch, we avoid voting for them to prevent their revival and vote for more protown people, essentially just like the "reverse" theme of the game.

And I like this good/bad karma idea from our mod. : KaleiÐoscøpe for having unusual characters in his name.

We should probably revive me because I like kittens and kittens are awesome.

[quote="Machiavellian-Mafia"]Looks to me like we can still play mafia like normal, except instead of voting for the suspicious people to lynch, we avoid voting for them to prevent their revival and vote for more protown people, essentially just like the "reverse" theme of the game.

And I like this good/bad karma idea from our mod. : KaleiÐoscøpe for having unusual characters in his name.[/quote]

Random Good Karma? That makes no sense.

well, at least here i won't get lynched on the first day :p

All I can say is i'm still a newbie to this, so don't bother reviving me until we're further ahead in the game.

I would like to stay away from all the voting for yourselves if possible because everyone is just going to do that. And since its just townies and scum, there is no reason to promote one person over another from a power role perspective.

And I believe thats part of what happened in the other game (unfortunately a big part of it seems to have been deleted so the end is hard to follow).

johhan wrote:well, at least here i won't get lynched on the first day :p

All I can say is i'm still a newbie to this, so don't bother reviving me until we're further ahead in the game.

Heh. I started trying to WIFOM this comment, got to about the third level, and then gave myself a headache, and I'm still not sure if this is a town tell or a scum tell.

Had to check the wiki to define WIFOM...

The reason i said not to revive me yet is simply that, though i'd like to think i have good logic skills, i haven't learned very well how to apply them to games of mafia. Basically, I won't be much help if i'm town, and i certainly won't if i'm mafia.

Won't bother posting "I'm town" since that's what everyone would be doing.

PS I'm town :p

logicticus wrote:I would like to stay away from all the voting for yourselves if possible because everyone is just going to do that. And since its just townies and scum, there is no reason to promote one person over another from a power role perspective.

And I believe thats part of what happened in the other game (unfortunately a big part of it seems to have been deleted so the end is hard to follow).

Well, that wasn't what went wrong in the other game. Yes, several people voted for themselves, that's obveously the logical place to start no matter what your role is, but that didn't hurt the game. What went wrong was that we revived me (a townie), 1 insane cop, and 1 scum. And the insane cop targeted a second scum, said he was a townie, and we revived him and lost. Brutal.

Saying this game is going to be hard is an understatment

The problem is that its hard to find a starting point in this game. And it is really hard to decide what constitutes as town play. It seems that with everyone being vanilla the town has to, for the most part, blindly decide who to ressurect. There isin't any easy way to PROVE who is town.

DeanWinchester wrote:Saying this game is going to be hard is an understatment

The problem is that its hard to find a starting point in this game. And it is really hard to decide what constitutes as town play. It seems that with everyone being vanilla the town has to, for the most part, blindly decide who to ressurect. There isin't any easy way to PROVE who is town.

basically, yes.

johhan wrote:

DeanWinchester wrote:Saying this game is going to be hard is an understatment

The problem is that its hard to find a starting point in this game. And it is really hard to decide what constitutes as town play. It seems that with everyone being vanilla the town has to, for the most part, blindly decide who to ressurect. There isin't any easy way to PROVE who is town.

basically, yes.

I would disagree in some respects, since it is mafia played backwards. In an average mafia game, you would call some players pro-town, and trust their judgement, since they make good logical arguments that benefit the town, and you would vote for people who you feel are scummy.

This is the other way around, so protown players get votes, and scummy players get nothing except bad karma. The bandwagon, works as well, but in a different way. Don't forget that this Day 0.25, is almost a Day 1, so anyone speed reviving, is probably attempting to get their scumbuddies on the living block. Bandwagons work through the person's reaction, but more importantly, through other people's reactions, and when they jump on, or not.

logicticus wrote:I would like to stay away from all the voting for yourselves if possible because everyone is just going to do that. And since its just townies and scum, there is no reason to promote one person over another from a power role perspective.

Quite true, since if everyone self voted, it would be counter productive.
So why not ?

Although that makes me wonder about whether selfvoting, or even self hammering is a protown thing to do. I doubt CD's usual rule of "Self vote = instant hamma" since that would be counterproductive.

Just realised I hadn't posted the general rules. They are now in the second post.

yellowbounder wrote: Although that makes me wonder about whether selfvoting, or even self hammering is a protown thing to do. I doubt CD's usual rule of "Self vote = instant hamma" since that would be counterproductive.

Why not? I'd expect anyone, of any alignment, to vote for themselves if they though they had a decend chance of getting revived. NOT voting for yourself in that situation in this game is almost like voting for yourself in a normal game.

yellowbounder wrote:

johhan wrote:

DeanWinchester wrote:Saying this game is going to be hard is an understatment

The problem is that its hard to find a starting point in this game. And it is really hard to decide what constitutes as town play. It seems that with everyone being vanilla the town has to, for the most part, blindly decide who to ressurect. There isin't any easy way to PROVE who is town.

basically, yes.

I would disagree in some respects, since it is mafia played backwards. In an average mafia game, you would call some players pro-town, and trust their judgement, since they make good logical arguments that benefit the town, and you would vote for people who you feel are scummy.

This is the other way around, so protown players get votes, and scummy players get nothing except bad karma. The bandwagon, works as well, but in a different way. Don't forget that this Day 0.25, is almost a Day 1, so anyone speed reviving, is probably attempting to get their scumbuddies on the living block. Bandwagons work through the person's reaction, but more importantly, through other people's reactions, and when they jump on, or not.

logicticus wrote:I would like to stay away from all the voting for yourselves if possible because everyone is just going to do that. And since its just townies and scum, there is no reason to promote one person over another from a power role perspective.

Quite true, since if everyone self voted, it would be counter productive.
So why not

Vote: logicticus

?

Although that makes me wonder about whether selfvoting, or even self hammering is a protown thing to do. I doubt CD's usual rule of "Self vote = instant hamma" since that would be counterproductive.

So.. you're telling me that it's prudent for a pro-town player to vote themselves, changing the ratio of pro-town players and anti-town players? PISH POSH!

Yellowbounder, for argument sake, in a 12 person game, we have 3 scum and 9 townies.

If we go by your infinite wisdom, and a pro-town player isn't allowed to vote themselves, you changed the game from 11 townies and 3 scum. Which allows the mafia to enjoy a better chance of NOT reviving a townie. Since, with 12 in the game, it takes 7 to revive, your method will just rely on the mafia WAITING (since it would basically take ALL of the pro-town players to agree) in order to promote someone. PISH POSH.

Still, it takes 7/9 Protown players right now to promote a pro-town (if the mafia stay off the wagon), so, Yellow, why change it to 7/8? It makes no sense.

I think Yellowbounder is scum.

Just saying I'm here. Will read in more detail probably tonight or tomorrow.