Mini 444 - Reverse Mafia Vanilla (Stopped)

[Relph]

I think that here random votes are a little bit more helpful, as if we vote randomly, there's a 9/12 chance of voting for town against a 3/12 mafia. But, we have to be careful, as speeding the vote won't help the people that will get revive since they won't have that much info to go on later.
With that in mind,

Vote: KaleiÐoscøpe

[LoudmouthLee]

[quote="Relph"]I think that here random votes are a little bit more helpful, as if we vote randomly, there's a 9/12 chance of voting for town against a 3/12 mafia. But, we have to be careful, as speeding the vote won't help the people that will get revive since they won't have that much info to go on later.
With that in mind,

Vote: KaleiÐoscøpe

[/quote]

Random vote? Why are you voting for KaleiDoscopes revival? You gave no reasons. Are you "random reviving voting?"

[LoudmouthLee]

[quote="Relph"]I think that here random votes are a little bit more helpful, as if we vote randomly, there's a 9/12 chance of voting for town against a 3/12 mafia. But, we have to be careful, as speeding the vote won't help the people that will get revive since they won't have that much info to go on later.
With that in mind,

Vote: KaleiÐoscøpe

[/quote]

I totally misread this, and now, I think I like it even less. Please disregard the last post I made, as it is redundant.

Why would you VOTE someone that you don't know is scum or not, instead, vote with 100% certainty that you are town?

Bad Karma: Relph

[Relph]

Again, like someone said before, if everybody voted for themselves we won't be able to do much, you can't revive a person with one vote.
I gave a reason, my reason is random.org. I stated before why I voted randomly.
Anyway, why would you give me bad karma if other people have previously done the same? Your basically bad karming me for something that YOU BELIEVE is scummy, and that's just that, a believe, not a reason or a logical consequence.
It's not like I'm even reviving him already, or putting him on Revive -1. I do think that random voting it's a good idea. If each one of us votes for him/herself, how are we going to start a discussion? By saying: "OMG, you voted for yourself so I'm going to give you bad karma (even though I did the same)" But like someone said before, bandwagons are a good way to get information, I guess that people to eager to resurrect other people will look scummier than others. And you cannot get bandwagons if everybody votes for themselves.

[logicticus]

Nobody else random voted anyone. There was a random karma, but not a vote.

I was the one against voting yourself and I am just against random voting (although I am against that in all games.)

I just think its more convincing for a player to make a case for someone other than themselves because that just looks selfish and stupid.

[Yosarian2]

Well, I guess random votes might serve the same (marginal) purpose they do in most games, which is that seeing how people respond to a random vote might give us a hint as to people's alignments; that is, seeing how people respond to Relph's random vote of KaleiÐoscøpe might give us a hint as to who is or is not linked to Kalei.

The big long-term problem for us is that we're going to have less info then in most games. In a normal game, you lynch someone, and then they're dead and you know their alignment, and can use that to analyze the people on the bandwagon. In this game, if we revive someone, we still won't know what their alignment is unless they die later, which means we'll have a lot more trouble drawing conclusions based on bandwagons. It's almost as bad as a no-reveal game, made even worse by the fact it's a vanillia game. Basically we're never going to have that much hard evidence of any type in this game.

[yellowbounder]

Saying this game is going to be hard is an understatment

The problem is that its hard to find a starting point in this game. And it is really hard to decide what constitutes as town play. It seems that with everyone being vanilla the town has to, for the most part, blindly decide who to ressurect. There isin't any easy way to PROVE who is town.

basically, yes.

I would disagree in some respects, since it is mafia played backwards. In an average mafia game, you would call some players pro-town, and trust their judgement, since they make good logical arguments that benefit the town, and you would vote for people who you feel are scummy.

This is the other way around, so protown players get votes, and scummy players get nothing except bad karma. The bandwagon, works as well, but in a different way. Don't forget that this Day 0.25, is almost a Day 1, so anyone speed reviving, is probably attempting to get their scumbuddies on the living block. Bandwagons work through the person's reaction, but more importantly, through other people's reactions, and when they jump on, or not.

I would like to stay away from all the voting for yourselves if possible because everyone is just going to do that. And since its just townies and scum, there is no reason to promote one person over another from a power role perspective.

Quite true, since if everyone self voted, it would be counter productive.
So why not

Vote: logicticus

?

Although that makes me wonder about whether selfvoting, or even self hammering is a protown thing to do. I doubt CD's usual rule of "Self vote = instant hamma" since that would be counterproductive.

Bad Karma: Yellowbounder

So.. you're telling me that it's prudent for a pro-town player to

NOT

vote themselves, changing the ratio of pro-town players and anti-town players? PISH POSH!

Yellowbounder, for argument sake, in a 12 person game, we have 3 scum and 9 townies.

If we go by your infinite wisdom, and a pro-town player isn't allowed to vote themselves, you changed the game from 11 townies and 3 scum. Which allows the mafia to enjoy a better chance of NOT reviving a townie. Since, with 12 in the game, it takes 7 to revive, your method will just rely on the mafia WAITING (since it would basically take ALL of the pro-town players to agree) in order to promote someone. PISH POSH.

Still, it takes 7/9 Protown players right now to promote a pro-town (if the mafia stay off the wagon), so, Yellow, why change it to 7/8? It makes no sense.

I think Yellowbounder is scum.

I thought it was as simple as, if everyone voted for themselves, then nothing would happen. It's like random voting in a mafia game, it does nothing, but it generally gets the game moving. Obviously, people will probably hammer themselves, just like they will hammer someone they want to get rid of.

[DeanWinchester]

bad karma relph

Pure Random voting is not going to help us.
And you decide to put your vote on the person who poped in just to say he will reread latter.

[Relph]

Everybody it's against random voting. But I haven't seen a single argument against it. The closest to that is loudmouth's argument, but I believe that's an argument against not voting for yourself.

I agree with that. If you are town, it's a good thing that you get in your own bandwagon. But the thing is that whatever alignment you are, you are going to vote for yourself and that give us no information.

Also, there's a good point that I think everybody has bypassed. There are several posts stating that this is a no information game. There are 4 people with information in this game, and we have to try to read that information out of them.

So, like someone stated before, I think random voting will same the same purpose that it does in a normal game. It gives us information. I never stated that we should random-revive someone. If you read my first post (25) I clearly said that we should not hurry up to revive someone because we need all the info that we can get.

[Yosarian2]

There are 4 people with information in this game, and we have to try to read that information out of them

Wait...what???

Did the mod say somewhere that there are 4 maifa members? Because if not

A. Did you just say there are 4 mafia members?

B. that seems like kind of an absurd number for a vanillia game this size where the town has this many disadvantages; I was thinking probably 2 mafia members

B. how do you know how many mafia members there are???

[LoudmouthLee]

There are 4 people with information in this game, and we have to try to read that information out of them

Wait...what???

Did the mod say somewhere that there are 4 maifa members? Because if not

A. Did you just say there are 4 mafia members?

B. that seems like kind of an absurd number for a vanillia game this size where the town has this many disadvantages; I was thinking probably 2 mafia members

B. how do you know how many mafia members there are???

QFT.

Now, with that...

I am currently only happy with 2 people for promotion to the real world. That's currently Myself and Yosarian. I will vote for either, as of right now.

[b[Good Karma: Yos[/b]

[johhan]

There are 4 people with information in this game, and we have to try to read that information out of them

Wait...what???

Did the mod say somewhere that there are 4 maifa members? Because if not

A. Did you just say there are 4 mafia members?

B. that seems like kind of an absurd number for a vanillia game this size where the town has this many disadvantages; I was thinking probably 2 mafia members

B. how do you know how many mafia members there are???

QFT.

Now, with that...

I am currently only happy with 2 people for promotion to the real world. That's currently Myself and Yosarian. I will vote for either, as of right now.

[b[Good Karma: Yos[/b]

QFT again.

vote: Yosarian2

[johhan]

posting again as not to edit:

Even stronger

bad karma: relph

after rereading the previous game thread i see no mention of there being 4 mafia.

[Relph]

That was actually a mistake of mine. I was basing the 4 people statement on what I remember from a previous post from Loudmouth. I just made the mistake of not re-reading the thread when I wrote it, and I actually thought that that was what he had said. I think that is clearly just a mistake. Loudmouth said they were 3.
If you think at it logically,
[quote='Yosarian2']
A. Did you just say there are 4 mafia members?

B. that seems like kind of an absurd number for a vanillia game this size where the town has this many disadvantages; I was thinking probably 2 mafia members
[/quote]

you said it yourself, that's a big number, just a mistake from me not re-reading a previous post.

[ChannelDelibird]

Vote Count:

Yosarian2 2 - (Yosarian2, johhan)

logicticus 1 - (yellowbounder)
KaleiÐoscøpe 1 - (Relph)
johhan
Relph
Vel-Rahn Koon
LoudmouthLee
DeanWinchester
OverTheUnder
yellowbounder
Zindaras
Machiavellian-Mafia

Karma Count:

KaleiÐoscøpe ~ 1
Yosarian2 ~ 1

johhan ~ 0
Zindaras ~ 0
Vel-Rahn Koon ~ 0
LoudmouthLee ~ 0
logicticus ~ 0
DeanWinchester ~ 0
OverTheUnder ~ 0
yellowbounder ~ -1
Machiavellian-Mafia -1

Relph ~ -3

[DeanWinchester]

Mod: can we give sombody bad karma twice

Relph= scum
there are four scum.
This is not good.

I have no ideal if this makes it more fair, but sheesh it is so not good for town..

A one in three chance of making the alive scum is too much.

Double blarg.

[ChannelDelibird]

You can give someone as much bad or good karma as you like, although only once per person per post.

[LoudmouthLee]

[quote]
Karma Count:
KaleiÐoscøpe ~ 1
Yosarian2 ~ 1
johhan ~ 0
Zindaras ~ 0
Vel-Rahn Koon ~ 0
LoudmouthLee ~ 0
logicticus ~ 0
DeanWinchester ~ 0
OverTheUnder ~ 0
yellowbounder ~ -1
Machiavellian-Mafia -1
Relph ~ -3
[/quote]

Keep in mind that someone gave out "Random good Karma" to Kaleidoscope.

[LoudmouthLee]

Bad Karma: Yellowbounder

So.. you're telling me that it's prudent for a pro-town player to NOT vote themselves, changing the ratio of pro-town players and anti-town players? PISH POSH!

Yellowbounder, for argument sake, in a 12 person game, we have 3 scum and 9 townies.

If we go by your infinite wisdom, and a pro-town player isn't allowed to vote themselves, you changed the game from 11 townies and 3 scum. Which allows the mafia to enjoy a better chance of NOT reviving a townie. Since, with 12 in the game, it takes 7 to revive, your method will just rely on the mafia WAITING (since it would basically take ALL of the pro-town players to agree) in order to promote someone. PISH POSH.

Still, it takes 7/9 Protown players right now to promote a pro-town (if the mafia stay off the wagon), so, Yellow, why change it to 7/8? It makes no sense.

I think Yellowbounder is scum.

Whoa. My comment was "for argument sake" as to prove why Yellowbounder's response was absolutely untrustworthy. Your comment was:

Also, there's a good point that I think everybody has bypassed. There are several posts stating that this is a no information game. There are 4 people with information in this game, and we have to try to read that information out of them.

Totally different situation.

Now. I will

Vote: LoudmouthLee

and

FoR: Yos

(Finger of Revival)

If you guys, for some reason, dislike me as a revival candidate, I will be happy to switch my vote to Yos.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

So ehm... why is all the random stuff dropped on me? It absolutly makes no sense.

The one that's giving me the most pro-town vibes so far:

Good Karma: Yosarian2 + Loudmouthlee

And for now:

Placeholder vote: KaleiÐoscøpe

until the alternatives start to drop,

Furthmore, I'm just going to note that i'm most likely not giving anyone bad karma as it doesn't make any sense gamewise. Good karma reflects possible revival targets, bad karma provides nothing. I will only use it if I'm 100% against reviving one player.

That's all for now.

[LoudmouthLee]

I am using it as "Suspicion" counters, Kaleidoscope. It makes sense for me, as when i sort by my own posts, I can see each of my suspicions as they came up.

[Yosarian2]

Based just on experence and on who would be more likely to make good decisions when town, loudmouth lee's probably a decent choice for revival, although I can't say I've really got much of a read on his alignment yet.

[logicticus]

Based just on experence and on who would be more likely to make good decisions when town, loudmouth lee's probably a decent choice for revival, although I can't say I've really got much of a read on his alignment yet.

I absolutely agree with this statement.

But I too cant get any read on him so far and if he turns out to be scum, it will be a quick game over.

[yellowbounder]

So basically, if we make an experienced player alive, and he's town, then we win. If he's scum, then we lose.

There's an easy solution to this problem. Make me alive instead.

[DeanWinchester]

I don't like putting both Yos and Lee up there because they may be scum working together. I think we should put one of them up there and look else where for the other two.

Vote Yosarian

[/b]