Mini 442 - Beast Wars Mafia Game Over

[ryan]

Yep, I'm keeping my vote open until I really believe someone's scum.

You won't get a guilty result today, so what are you waiting on?

Are you being impatient or opportunistic?

[Primoris]

Jordan, are you really just waiting for concrete evidence or rather just waiting for a good moment to vote for an innocent player without it looking suspicious?

There seems to be some sort of pattern with ryan and Jordan playing a very non-aggressive game whereas Lowell and HackerHuck seem much more inclined to lynch someone, which is a good sign. After getting some votes on him, I haven't seen ryan do something the last few posts that makes me think he's town.

I'm not sure Lowell is town either, but as I said, ryan hasn't managed to convince me at all, about his alignment.

Vote: ryan

[Primoris]

Forgot to say, I'll be away Friday through Sunday.

[Teffc]

Sorry, supposed to be it doesn't mean I am waiting for concrete evidence...

so you're saying you may at some point vote out of the blue without anything that's really striking...and you know, you do seem to be contradicting yourself

Yep, I'm keeping my vote open until I really believe someone's scum.

too me it does seem you are trying to play it cool and way too safe. Are you waiting for an opportunity to bandwagon or even hammer someone? YOu have been keeping count of posts and posting and awful lot of theory but no real substance in those posts of yours. You seem to be prodding to see who cracks so you may cling on.

care to tell us more?

@HH i don't know whether you're playing it tough because you are linked to the town or because you want to hide something and keep our eyes away from you. I'm very suspicious of you because you aren't denying anything nor explaining too much about the way you act.

[Aimee]

Someone accused me of being quiet, which is a very fair accusation. I want to remind everyone that it will not be untill tomorrow I can make a substantial post. Thank you.

[ryan]

Jordan, are you really just waiting for concrete evidence or rather just waiting for a good moment to vote for an innocent player without it looking suspicious?

There seems to be some sort of pattern with ryan and Jordan playing a very non-aggressive game whereas Lowell and HackerHuck seem much more inclined to lynch someone, which is a good sign. After getting some votes on him, I haven't seen ryan do something the last few posts that makes me think he's town.

I'm not sure Lowell is town either, but as I said, ryan hasn't managed to convince me at all, about his alignment.

Vote: ryan

I disagree with your vote tactics. Being more inclined to lynch somebody isn't a good thing. Trying to find out as much about everyone as you can is more beneficial to the town in my opinion which I've been doing since I started playing. I'd rather play it safe than jump on a bandwagon and lynch a fellow townie. We have too many lurkers/non participaters in this game currently to go after somebody who is trying to contribute and is trying to help out the town

[HackerHuck]

@HH i don't know whether you're playing it tough because you are linked to the town or because you want to hide something and keep our eyes away from you. I'm very suspicious of you because you aren't denying anything nor explaining too much about the way you act.

What is there to deny or explain? I'm just hunting scum.

[ryan]

@HH i don't know whether you're playing it tough because you are linked to the town or because you want to hide something and keep our eyes away from you. I'm very suspicious of you because you aren't denying anything nor explaining too much about the way you act.

What is there to deny or explain? I'm just hunting scum.

Or trying to start a bandwagon on a townie

[JordanA24]

Quote:

Sorry, supposed to be it doesn't mean I am waiting for concrete evidence...



so you're saying you may at some point vote out of the blue without anything that's really striking...and you know, you do seem to be contradicting yourself

Sorry, I really was tired last night, it IS supposed to mean I'm NOT waiting for concrete evidence.

Quote:

Yep, I'm keeping my vote open until I really believe someone's scum.



too me it does seem you are trying to play it cool and way too safe. Are you waiting for an opportunity to bandwagon or even hammer someone? YOu have been keeping count of posts and posting and awful lot of theory but no real substance in those posts of yours. You seem to be prodding to see who cracks so you may cling on.

care to tell us more?

I just don't want to lynch someone who might have an important pro-town role based on crap evidence and flawed logic.

[chaotic_diablo]

Vote Count 3 for Day One

Lowell (2) : OvertheUnder, ryan

ryan (4) : deezr, Lowell, HackerHuck, Aimee

Albert B. Rampage (2) : Primoris, TrustGossip
Primoris (1) : Albert B. Rampage

Not Voting (3) : Ripley, JordanA24, Teffc

Remember, it's 7 to lynch.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Ryan like all soldiers fought, to be accepted
Specially by those who rejected him the most
See nobody's perfect
And off course everyone makes mistakes

Vote: ryan

ryan (4) : deezr, Lowell, HackerHuck, Aimee
Albert B. Rampage (2) : Primoris, TrustGossip

[chaotic_diablo]

4. Votes and unvotes must be in BOLD. In addition, you must unvote if you want to vote again.

[Teffc]

Since i've got computer problems(again) i'm not sure how often i will be able to post.
I'm not sure how guilty ryan is . all this was started by Lowell when ryan disaggreed with his pressure tactics. I've seen some game in which the mafia acted so protown that simply led the game from the beggining.
I don't see enough evidence...

[Primoris]

Unvote

Vote: Ryan

Apologies about that.

Ryan, I'm sorry but like I said you haven't convinced me yet of being innocent and putting a 5th vote on you brings you in danger which is always interesting. Perhaps one of your scum buddies will unvote now to save you, perhaps they'll do the exact opposite and vote as well to look innocent.

I'm not suggesting we should sacrifice you to gain information but I'm willing to put you in danger to get some.

[ryan]

Put me in danger to get info? That's your best explanation? Vote off a townie to drop our numbers and possibly give the mafia one more step to win the game, nice reasoning. All I can say is at least I've been active and tried to find the rest of the scum to let the town come up wth a win.

[JordanA24]

Unvote

Vote: Ryan

Apologies about that.

Ryan, I'm sorry but like I said you haven't convinced me yet of being innocent and putting a 5th vote on you brings you in danger which is always interesting. Perhaps one of your scum buddies will unvote now to save you, perhaps they'll do the exact opposite and vote as well to look innocent.

I'm not suggesting we should sacrifice you to gain information but I'm willing to put you in danger to get some.

FOS:Primoris

for logic which can be described as no more than BS.

And I haven't liked your last few posts either.

[Aimee]

Well, you guys did say you wanted a long post from me so... brace yourself! Not only have I got one long post, I have another! I sound like some kind of weird salesman, so on that note, let's begin.

Game Timeline (and my thoughts)

Game start. Random voting occurs. Teffc asks if anyone hasn’t posted. Everyone random voted, with the exception of HackerHuck, who randomly chose ranom.org, but Albert B. Rampage was the last to random vote, yet the second to post. He also spoke in poetry. Lowell was the first person to accuse someone else of being scum and change his vote – although this was obviously random.

A vote count early on page 2 reveals no early leader of votes, although TrustGossip got two random votes (the highest). And JordanA24 is the first to point out Albert’s rhyming.

Lowell then jumps on the random TrustGossip bandwagon. Ryan seems to have the biggest issue with this, but JordanA24 points out that random bandwagons can be in fact beneficial. Lowell then votes Ryan, perhaps for his reaction to Lowell’s vote.

Ryan justifies his position, saying it is possible that “we mess up”, which could lead to a townie’s lynch, which makes him feel “uneasy”. Personally I disagree. Random bandwagon’s often don’t lead to that person’s lynch, but they provide us with valuable information – the reactions of the accused, who jumped on the bandwagon and often where the next bandwagon forms. In short – the random bandwagon is very useful. Yet interestingly, JordanA24 agrees with Ryan and unvotes (he had been voting TrustGossip).

Ryan votes Lowell, yet explains that it was because bandwagonning is wrong. I disagree. Lowell was bringing out a reaction and not doing anything scummy. This vote puzzles me.

Primoris disagrees that random bandwagons are bad, and points out the TrustGossip wasn’t in any danger – he only had three votes. He then accuses JordanA24 of “playing too safe” for unvoting TrustGossip. Jordan counters that the random bandwagon has a higher chance of catching a pro-town player than a mafia player, but that begs the question, without random voting, where would we be? Jordan also says that unpredictable newbies could act irrationally and put on votes. I disagree with this, because whilst there are newbies like this, they are unlikely to muster enough votes for a lynch, which would have to have some provocation.

Ryan seems to misinterpret the “playing it safe” accusation as if it was against him (understandable, as I did first time too). But he says that he does play it safe, yet feels that Lowell’s “tactics” are scummy. HackerHuck rightly points out that bandwagons are effective to see who jumps on and off, and also attacks Ryan for playing it safe, yet thinking Lowell is guilty. Ryan counters this seemingly by accusing HackerHuck of playing it safe, which I don’t particularly understand. When did HackerHuck play it safe?

Teffc again seems to want some other people to speak up. I would agree with this, since at this point Albert, myself, TrustGossip, OverTheUnder and dezzr hadn’t posted. Teffc for this reason sticks to his random vote of dezzr. Don’t you think it is a bit early for a lurker hunt, Teffc?

I point out that playing it safe isn’t a good strategy for town, and Lowell agrees with HackerHuck, saying “this guy is town”. Whilst I wouldn’t go that far, I do agree that HackerHuck is seeming pro-town at the moment.

Albert jumps in with another rhyme, and points suspicion at Lowell and Teffc, yet doesn’t explain why. The two posts he gives as reasons aren’t justifiable of any suspicion. Therefore why do you consider Teffc and Lowell to be the most suspicious?

Primoris says that Albert doesn’t post like this in other games. He also says that whilst playing it safe is bad for the town, he doesn’t think that Ryan is, although no explanation is given.

Jordan also says he finds Albert’s poetry odd, but says that a post-restriction like that in a game like this would be weird. Um, why? It is a mini theme game, so anything is possible, to an extent. Jordan also accuses Teffc, saying she just jumps in to say she is still around, yet doesn’t contribute anything. I would have to agree with this.

HackerHuck had said earlier that he is always town. I took that as a joke, yet Teffc seemed to take it seriously, wondering whether HackerHuck had any investigation immunity. Er, slightly early for role fishing like that. She then says that HackerHuck suspected Lowell (actually didn’t), yet Lowell considers him town. She then places FoSes on both, for reasons that are pretty illogical to me anyway. Another explanation here, Teffc?

HackerHuck says rightly that Teffc is looking into that too much, and said he never suspected Lowell at all. Would it also be correct, that your “I am always town” statement was random? That’s what I interpreted it as, anyway. Ryan then asks Teffc is she considers HackerHuck to be scum.

A vote count reveals that Ryan is heading the vote count, yet still at lynch -3. Nothing else stands out except that Albert, TrustGossip, OverTheUnder and dezzr haven’t changed their random votes.

Ryan’s response to this is basically that he thinks Lowell has “shown enough scummy tendencies” (?) and that we also have a fair share of lurkers. Ryan, what is your case against Lowell?

TrustGossip comes on and votes Albert, saying that he isn’t a fan of his cryptic messages. He also promises to write more later, which hasn’t so far happened. What are your feelings on everyone else, TrustGossip?

Teffc says that HackerHuck is acting “too clean”, which could be a tactic to “throw us off”. Er, this is slightly exaggerated. HackerHuck made (what I perceive) to be a joke and a random statement, but you seem to have formed a case against him because of this, which revolves around being too clean and having investigation immunity. Do you have a proper case against HackerHuck?

HackerHuck says there is a problem with the vote count, but Ryan jumps in basically saying that HH is lynch happy. Dude, he was checking a vote count. And Teffc also says she was putting HH under pressure to see how he would react. Actually, HH didn’t really panic, and it was a pretty weak case, Teffc. In fact, it comes across far worse on your side. She also misinterprets Ryan’s lynch happy claim as being at her, when it was clearly aimed at HH. Ryan says this was maybe a “scum slipup.” Ryan actually argues this well, there is no reason for Teffc to be lynch happy – she isn’t even voting! HH just dismisses Ryan’s claims, yet Teffc says Ryan was being “ironic”. How so?

Ryan then says he is sure that there are two scum on the bandwagon. Not sure how you got to that. After Jordan asks if it is HH and Lowell, Ryan responds that it is either myself or dezzr for lurking. This whole point is just totally bizarre. I can’t understand this, personally. Firstly, why two scum? Secondly, why Lowell as scum? Thirdly, why not HH?

Jordan then says dezzr voted Ryan randomly, and I voted with a reason. He then chimes in that Lowell and Teffc are the most suspicious. With Teffc I see your reasoning. With Lowell, I see no reasoning. Why Lowell?

Jordan also doesn’t vote, something which Ryan and HH both rightly point out. He says that neither are worthy of a vote yet, but Jordan also says he is waiting for concrete evidence. Even if you aren’t willing to vote for them, why not put on a FoS? And what concrete evidence are you going to get on day 1, especially after no night faze?

HH implies that Jordan is a cop by saying he isn’t going to get any guilty cop results on day 1. Ryan attacks this as being “impatient or opportunistic”. To be honest, I am unusure what to make of this at all.

Primoris makes a point that Jordan could be using the “concrete evidence” reason as a way to just against an innocent player. He also says that Jordan and ryan have been playing non-agressively, whilst HH and Lowell have been playing towards a lynch, which is better. I am inclined to agree. He also points out Ryan hasn’t done anything to convince him of his innocence. He therefore votes against Ryan, putting him at lynch -2.

Teffc points out what Primoris just said, that Jordan could use the “concrete evidence” argument ot just vote an innocent. Teffc also says he is “playing it safe.” I find it interesting that Primoris made both these accusations earlier, and now Teffc makes them. Whilst they are both true, I don’t really see this as adding new information, just a way for Teffc of looking like pro-town.

Teffc also says HH is acting suspicious because he isn’t explaining his actions, but I don’t really see what HH has to explain, frankly. HH may be playing aggressively, but he isn’t doing anything that is outright suspicious right now. Teffc, what is your case against HH?

Ryan disagrees with Primoris’ “voting tactics”. He also says that “being inclined to lynch someone isn’t a good thing.” True, but it is better than being indecisive and weak. Although I am not directly accusing you of this. Ryan also takes another stab at lurkers, and then says that HH is trying to start bandwagon’s against townies.

Jordan makes a post saying he isn’t looking for overwhelming concrete evidence to vote for someone. Personally, I see this as a back-track because he knows it has been received badly. He also emphasises the accusation he has been playing too safely because he says he doesn’t want to lynch someone for crap-logic or illogical evidence. True, but you understand that putting a vote on someone isn’t inherently bad, and can actually be beneficial overall? Vote patterns are a really important way of judging the game.

Teffc then says that Ryan isn’t really guilty, and that the bandwagon was started by Lowell’s “pressure tactics”, or Ryan’s disagreements to that.

Primoris puts a pressure vote against Ryan (it didn’t count firstly) saying he is prepared to put Ryan in danger to see his reaction. Ryan takes this in a defeatist way, saying that lynching him is a bad play. Um, Ryan, Primoris was saying that it wouldn’t be a good idea to lynch you.

But Jordan seems to agree with Ryan, saying that Primoris’ “pressure” theory is nothing more than BS, and that he hasn’t liked Primoris’ last posts.

[Aimee]

So, that is what has happened through the game. Now I will do a player analysis.

I am suspicious of

Albert B. Rampage’s

poetry. I am pretty sure this is a post restriction at work. I want him to explain if he can why he has to post like this.

Dezzr

has obviously lurked and needs a prod.

I feel overall that

HackerHuck

is playing slightly aggressively, but I believe is acting in the interests of the town, and is an active and beneficial player. I don’t see the cases against him.

Jordan

I initially saw as pro-town, but he has come back with some bizarre suspicions, and has notably played safely without taking risks with voting, which I see as quite crucial. This is maybe a way to get out of the blame when voting can be fully analysed later.

Lowell

I initially saw as just searching for reactions. However, the fact that he is quite obviously lurking and not contributing just emphasises the way that maybe he was just starting a case against Ryan for the sake of it. I am less impressed than I was.

OverTheUnder

needs a prod, as a lurker.

I see

Primoris

as a very helpful member of the town at the moment, and feel that his analysis has often be very accurate.

Although

Ryan

has made some good points, I feel that his cases and points against Lowell, especially HH have been unjustified and illogical. I want to know his cases against them.

Teffc

is really acting scummy. She has attacked HH for seemingly little reason, and has been making points I feel for the sake of making points – to appear pro-town. Some of her analysis is just a mirror of other people’s, and I have yet to see any major opinions from her (with the exception of her bizarre case against HH).

TrustGossip

I haven’t really got an opinion on, but I want to hear his summary. In fact, I see him as a potential lurker.

So, as a result...

unvote

, as I will probably re-vote determining the reactions to my summary.

FoS: JordanA24, Lowell, Ryan and Teffc

Minor FoS: Albert B. Rampage and TrustGossip

[Aimee]

Wow, I never knew it was that long. I just checked at it is actually 5 pages of A4...

[Aimee]

Sorry to post again, but I am now "Mafia Scum"... HURRAY!

[Aimee]

Sorry to post again, but I also want:

Prod: OverTheUnder, dezzr and Lowell

[HackerHuck]

^^ :goodposting: ^^

A couple of clarifications...

I am always town, so take that as you may.

I was not implying that Jordan is a cop. I meant that he will not get a cop to claim someone as scum on D1. Two reasons - obviously there was no investigation on N0, and no cop in his (or her) right mind would out themselves on D1 even if they did get a guilty.

I'm curious why there is so much speculation regarding Mr. Rampage's poetry. What benefit to the town is it if we know he's got a restriction? I'd prefer that he answer the more important question of why he was suspicious of Lowell and Teffc.

[JordanA24]

Jordan then says dezzr voted Ryan randomly, and I voted with a reason. He then chimes in that Lowell and Teffc are the most suspicious. With Teffc I see your reasoning. With Lowell, I see no reasoning. Why Lowell?

For the same reasons everyone else suspected him, these:

unvote, vote Trustgossp to bandwagon a newbie and make him crack.

How's this, just tell us your scumbuddies and I'll let you live.

ryan wrote:
Lowell wrote:
unvote, vote Trustgossp to bandwagon a newbie and make him crack.

How's this, just tell us your scumbuddies and I'll let you live.


WHY would you bandwagon a potential townie? I'm not sure I like your tactics


My apologies. That bandwagon was totally unnecessary. unvote, vote ryan. FEEEAAR me...

Jordan makes a post saying he isn’t looking for overwhelming concrete evidence to vote for someone. Personally, I see this as a back-track because he knows it has been received badly.

I wasn't backtracking, I wasn't looking for concrete evidence in the first place, my post had simply been misinterpreted. I've already explained my carefulness, though, as you pointed out, it was taken badly, but I'm not backing down.

Jordan also says that unpredictable newbies could act irrationally and put on votes. I disagree with this, because whilst there are newbies like this, they are unlikely to muster enough votes for a lynch, which would have to have some provocation.

Again, I get misinterpreted, what I said was that newbies may well act suspicious under pressure, not that newbies might vote unpredictably. Don't know where you got that from.

Apart from that, very good analysis, and congrats on becoming Mafia Scum.

[HackerHuck]

Jordan, please try and include names in your quotes. I'm not sure who said what you posted above.

[Lowell]

That summary of Aimee's makes me weirdly suspcious, but I'm not sure why. M'eh.