Open 19 - Nightless (Over?) before 430

[Battle Mage]

i was halfway through a reread when i noticed SPAG was playing. is he still here or did NAR replace him?

[Aimee]

Yes, he was replaced by NAR.

[Battle Mage]

dang i wanted to play a game with him aswell.
anyway ill get back to you with my thoughts in a bit.
BM

Yes, he was replaced by NAR.

[Elias_the_thief]

Even with all this suspicion, i dont know if i really think he is scum. i think scum would think alot more about what they would say.

This is pretty WIFOM. if we expect scum to act a certain way, theyll just act another. scum could easily play without caution, then say, "wouldnt i have been more careful if i was scum?"

In my opinion, every player should play equally careful, because misinterpretations and mistakes can incriminate town as easily as scum. so i dont think this clears NAR at all.

[Simenon]

now_a_ranger has decided to get replaced (don't worry, it's at a convenient and managable time) because this game doesn't interest him anymore, which is grand, because it forces me to get yet another replacement and drops the number of people playing this game to about four.

Therefore, while a search for a replacement, I'd like everybody playing in the game to pm me to say if they still want to play. If there isn't enough, I'll call the game off.

Posting in the game should do it.
Also: deadline possible.

[Elias_the_thief]

i think that NAR is just quitting because he didnt want to get lynched...oh well.

[Romanus]

I'm still around and will catch up and post sometime this weekend, if not tonight

[Occult]

now_a_ranger has decided to get replaced

Didn't see that coming...
I'll be here.

*Waits to attack NAR's replacement*

[TonyMoonshine]

ok, so players register to play or replace, then become bored with the game and just drop out? does anyone else think this is not good?

[mustafa15]

I think we should give NaR's replacement a clean slate, I think NaR might have just been messing with us.

[Battle Mage]

great. he was the guy who asked me to replace into this game in the first place, because he was worried about people dropping out. oh the irony.
still, im happy to continue playing as long as activity picks up. cold you also ask SPAG if he wants to replace back? he went through an inactive period, but hes back and playing again now.
otherwise, ill ask him to pm you.
BM

now_a_ranger has decided to get replaced (don't worry, it's at a convenient and managable time) because this game doesn't interest him anymore, which is grand, because it forces me to get yet another replacement and drops the number of people playing this game to about four.

Therefore, while a search for a replacement, I'd like everybody playing in the game to pm me to say if they still want to play. If there isn't enough, I'll call the game off.

Posting in the game should do it.
Also: deadline possible.

[VitaminR]

Here. Post later.

[Battle Mage]

I don’t like IH’s post 31, as it looks like he is just going along with VR-something I wouldn’t expect protown IH to do. In fact I also agree with what VR said, but I didn’t like IH’s tone which sounded rather like “yeah whatever you say VR”. On the other hand, his post 34 is informative and helpful. He hasn’t posted a great deal, although I expect some posts of his were lost.

Drainbead’s question in post 45 is alarming to say the least. It wreaks of scum trying to test the water in an unknown style of game.

Didn’t like Aimee’s post 48. she was just repeating what had previously been said, in an attempt to make it look like she was doing something useful. On the other hand, she is the first person I have seen to do a detailed analysis of the players.

Occults post 62 is probably the scummiest so far in the game. It sounds like genuine consolation to his scumbuddy John. I cant really see any other reason why he would be sympathetic to someone who is easy to catch as scum. Those are the BEST type of people imo. 

Obviously ive missed a fair bit, especially concerning NAR, but from what I have read, I’m not convinced he is scum.

Finally, Mustafa’s post 109 is rather odd. If he thought NAR was scum, he would obviously pressure NAR’s replacement. A different person, but the same role pm.
Strange that he didn’t mention this.

Well those are my thoughts. ill start with a

Vote: Occult

. I think its quite possible that him and John are a scumpair.

Mod: a Votecount would also be nice

[Simenon]

Vote Count
DrainBead- Romanus
Battle Mage-, mustafa15
Elias_the_theif- John
Mustafa15- VitaminR
Occult- IH, Battle Mage
NAR’s replacement- Occult, Elias_the_theif

[TonyMoonshine]

I know we lost some days because of the forum crash, but I had a early vote for John that I can't find now. Did we lose some random posts also?

[John]

I had just unvoted in an earlyer post.

Just to make everything clear, i think we should have wipe the slate clean, have no votes then move from there, i think some votes got lost.

[Elias_the_thief]

I think we should give NaR's replacement a clean slate, I think NaR might have just been messing with us.

I dont like this post. NAR was scummy, and I dont think he was messing with us. If he was just messing with us he wouldnt of replaced out (I know, ive played in game where he just messes with players).
So yeah, I still think NAR was scum, so theres no reason that his replacement should get to be cleared. I think that perhaps you posted this because you were NAR's scumbuddy. its feasible, youre one of the few players that he didnt vote day 1.

[Simenon]

IH prodded

[VitaminR]

I think we should give NaR's replacement a clean slate, I think NaR might have just been messing with us.

I dont like this post. NAR was scummy, and I dont think he was messing with us. If he was just messing with us he wouldnt of replaced out (I know, ive played in game where he just messes with players).
So yeah, I still think NAR was scum, so theres no reason that his replacement should get to be cleared. I think that perhaps you posted this because you were NAR's scumbuddy. its feasible, youre one of the few players that he didnt vote day 1.

I really like mustafa's post. now a ranger has a record of being unreliable, irrational and generally trying to screw over the town.

Also, the people who votehop blatantly are not necessarily scum. Moving your vote freely is somewhat advantageous to scum, but if that is quickly lost if you do it too openly. No one is going to join you in your vote and people will suspect you for it.

I don't like the jump on now a ranger at all.

I'm going to vote Occult. He seems incredibly content to push an easy now a ranger wagon, but when it came to the John wagon early on (which had a substantial amount of content for an early wagon) he was very cautious and quick to point out the danger of quicklynching.

I feel you're applying a double standard and I don't like how you're already primed to attack now a ranger's replacement.

I think John and Occult are scum and I would really like to see one of them dead today.

Unvote: John,
Vote: Occult

[Elias_the_thief]

Vitamin, three things:

1) Ive played in several games with NAR, and I'm used to his style. It seems to me he was trying to play this game seriously. Plus he was close to being banned for his previous behavior, so he has to keep pretty much in line. So i think he not just messing with us. (he probably wouldve claimed something wierd if he was messing with us, rather than ask for a replacement, from my experience with him). In addition, I think asking for a replacement when there's a lot of pressure on you is suspicious on its own.

2) His votehopping was not the only thing that made him suspicious. After his votehopping he lied about my play, and then tried to build a case against me based on his own lies. He went as far as to vote me. If thats not scummy, I dont know what is.

3) I never said that we should immediately jump on NAR. But I find it suspicious that Mustafa thinks we should completely disregard the behavior of NAR, as it does provide us insight unto his role, and obviously the role of his replacement.

[VitaminR]

1) Ive played in several games with NAR, and I'm used to his style. It seems to me he was trying to play this game seriously. Plus he was close to being banned for his previous behavior, so he has to keep pretty much in line. So i think he not just messing with us. (he probably wouldve claimed something wierd if he was messing with us, rather than ask for a replacement, from my experience with him).

He is still a rather... unconventional player.

In addition, I think asking for a replacement when there's a lot of pressure on you is suspicious on its own.

I don't think now a ranger is that obvious.

2) His votehopping was not the only thing that made him suspicious. After his votehopping he lied about my play, and then tried to build a case against me based on his own lies. He went as far as to vote me. If thats not scummy, I dont know what is.

Having bad reasons for a vote is not necessarily indicative of scum, but I'd like to hear more about this. I missed it at the time. Could you outline what happened?

3) I never said that we should immediately jump on NAR. But I find it suspicious that Mustafa thinks we should completely disregard the behavior of NAR, as it does provide us insight unto his role, and obviously the role of his replacement.

If nar and mustafa are scum together, I doubt mustafa would have been that obvious. It makes me inclined to think of mustafa as town, for limiting the reasons he can use to justify his votes.

[Elias_the_thief]

ok. ill agree with you that NAR is a very unconventional player.

basically what happened between me and NAR was that :

1.

I came back from vacation, and gave my opinions on Blahgo and John. I also called his votehopping suspicious.

2.

He responded by saying that i was suspicious for suddenly coming into the game and for copying everyones opinions

3.

I informed him that my opinions on him for completely new ones that I brought up, and that agreeing with the opinions of others does not make you suspicious to begin with.

4.

He insists that I am copying everyones opinions and that this is a scumtell. He foses me, and urges the town to vote for me.

5.

I fos him because he is trying to build a case against me based on his own lies.

6.

He votes for me for no apparent reason.

7.

I vote for him based on 6 reasons, (in a post that was lost in the crash, but Aimee can vouch for me that i did) including his indecisiveness, his votehopping, his lying (lynch all liars), and then his attempts to lynch me based on nothing but lies.

8.

After the crash he claims he has lost interest in the game and requests replacement.

And as to the last point of yours, that totally WIFOM, because if we expect scum to not be obvious, theyll just act obv in their intentions. Arguments should never be based on what you would do if you were scum.

[VitaminR]

That reads more like stupidity than scumminess. I'll grant you that it is somewhat scummy, but it is not the hard evidence that I would need to justify the fervour behind this wagon.

And as to the last point of yours, that totally WIFOM, because if we expect scum to not be obvious, theyll just act obv in their intentions. Arguments should never be based on what you would do if you were scum.

It may be WIFOM, but, in my experience, it is accurate. Scum just don't generally behave in obvious ways and on the rare occasions that they do, it shows.

[Elias_the_thief]

well, we must also remember that Mustafa is fairly new to mafia, and may not know what obvious scum behavior is. But obviously im not planning to lynch mustafa off of that little thing, i was just informing the town of my suspicions.

[VitaminR]

I know, but I've played with mustafa before (as his scumbuddy) and his behaviour is very different now. It's much more level-headed.