Mini 424 - Game Over

[The Shadow]

I think Javert's kinda jumping it a bit on Barroman. He asked Elias a simple question. Regardless of whether it should have been fairly clear, that's hardly cause for a vote, I'm thinking.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

you want to know why? dont push it =P

I will push, you are voting for no reason at all. You gave no reason for the vote and now... you are saying dont push it. Complete crap IMO. I cant believe Ive been caught out so early. This is seriously absolute bs. I wish I wasnt a scum now because Ill probably be lynched soon. Secondly, I will be quite honest, this game has not gotten nearly enough attention from me, I started a new job that requires many more hours from me, but the pay is better, so I have been focusing on that instead of this. Things seem to be slowing down, so I should be able to be more active as of now.

My opinions on this game.... give me a few to reread then I will post a quick summary with my suspicions.

sry bro

[kilmenator]

I'm a female just for the record. And could you please explain why you are voting me?

[Elias_the_thief]

I think Javert's kinda jumping it a bit on Barroman. He asked Elias a simple question. Regardless of whether it should have been fairly clear, that's hardly cause for a vote, I'm thinking.

I have to agree with this. while barromans questions were kind of dumb seeing as they'd already been answered, they dont really seem to be much of a scumtell.

and javert: i kinda see where OMG is coming from about you being annoying. its nothing about your posts, but your picture just looks really condescending. obviously im not suspicious about you for it, that would be dumb. but if theres anything i learned about OMG in my last game, its that he's an idiotic asshole. not much he says can be taken at face value

[MeMe]

Do you seriously not know where the name "Javert" comes from?

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

kil - why dont you try reading the huge post above where i actually give a full answer, are you honestly telling me you skipped post 54 twice?

see this is why there is no point answering questions - noone reads them, if they do they misinterpret them either deliberately or accidentally.

im not answering any more questions or comments for this game ever from kilmenator.
a) because he/she is scum
b) because he/she is too lazy or stupid to READ what i write before responding

elias - <3 (id rather be an asshole than a retard like many players on this site are)
javert is annoying entirely because of his posts, i dont have a clue what his pic is.

[Javert]

I think Javert's kinda jumping it a bit on Barroman. He asked Elias a simple question. Regardless of whether it should have been fairly clear, that's hardly cause for a vote, I'm thinking.

Firstly, Barroman asked Elias_the_thief three questions, not simply one. Secondly, the game was (and still is) just creeping out of the random voting stage. I am much more content with a vote with some reasoning behind it (as my current vote) than a vote with no reasoning behind it (as was my initial vote).

I will pursue what I see to be even slightly scummy early in the game, and I got the feeling the Barroman's questions were not intended to be inquisitive, but more intended to cast suspicion - which seems somewhat contrary to scumhunting, and hence somewhat scummy. Hence the vote.

Is there a reason in particular why

you

are not currently voting anybody? Is this normal for you?

while barromans questions were kind of dumb seeing as they'd already been answered, they dont really seem to be much of a scumtell.

Barroman, do you agree with this? If not, what questions do you think were unanswered in-thread? And if so, why did you accuse me of being a 'poor lawyer'?

javert is annoying entirely because of his posts, i dont have a clue what his pic is.

Could you tell me what in particular is annoying about my posts? It may be possible for me to alleviate whatever offense you are taking in my posting.

[Barromán]

@ Kilmentantor:

You say that I don't added so much to the game. I started the game, and I have to go away for three days. I'm from Spain so mi Clock is a bit different yours so it's more difficult to me to post at the same time that yours, so it's more difficult to me start a real argue. And more important what have you given to the game? I wanted to add something asking that questions, till Javert did the work to Elias.

@ Javert:

Uhm...

I'll try to answer the more schematic the better...

1) Poor lawyer is not the same that poor's lawyer, a lawyer who work to the people who can't pay a lawyer. It's as saying that you have defended someone who can defend himself.

2) I think that in this game the best way to catch a scum is asking him, trying to geting him nervious. So I was trying to ask "strange" questions

to Elias

to see how

Elias

could answer the questions.

3) Here I must add that, I'm spanish, so probably some of the things that you say I could understand them by other way... I understand from the declarations of Elias, that he says that random votes weren't very usefull... so I wanted to test him, and see what he have to says to the fact that he have randomly voted and he has criticised the random votes. From here come the first and the second question.

4) The third question comes from the fact that Elias (yes, the questions was TO ELIAS) the fact that Elias have said a LAY. He said that he saw the game dead, so he changed his random vote. But, that wasn't so much time from post to post... And I see some inconsitences here... From here come the third question.

5) If you see Javert, you are asking me at the same way I have asked Elias. And I could say that they are already answered. But I understand that those questions are a "test". So if I follow your your "reasoning in your vote", I must vote you, because that questions "were not intended to be inquisitive, but more intended to cast suspicion - which seems somewhat contrary to scumhunting, and hence somewhat scummy".

Of course I don't agree with that because I WANTED ELIAS TO ANSWER THE QUESTIONS TO SEE HIS REACTION. Altought they were half answered in-thread, I wanted to see what he has to say. Especially to the third question. And I acuse you to ve a poor

's

lawyer because you have defended Elias without especial reason.

And If got another question, but this time to you. WHY HAVE YOU DEFENDED HIM? Why you didn't want him to answer that questions? Why did you answer those questions? And why didn't you let him to answers his own questions?

[Barromán]

And I acuse you to

v

e a poor

's

lawyer because you have defended Elias without especial reason.

And I acuse you to

b

e a poor

's

lawyer because you have defended Elias without especial reason.

P.s: Sorry!

[Javert]

I see what you are saying, and I must respectfully disagree. I will point out again:

a.) Any layman reading Elias' posts can tell that he did not say that random votes are 'useless' - just that they will not be taken completely seriously.
b.) See above.
c.) This is an absurdly silly "question". Ancagalon makes the answer entirely explicit by laying out the timeframe - a direct response is completely unneccessary.

None of these are 'answers' to any of your questions posed to Elias. He is still free to answer your questions, since his actual responses (which, to me, appear clearly in-thread) are much more detailed than what I have shown here.

I suppose I can understand how you could try to make him 'nervous',

but

asking Elias questions where the answers are already explicitly in-thread seems like a poor way of going about that tactic.

I perceive this as being equivalent to an interaction which goes as follows:

I believe Y is suspicious for reasons A, B, and C.

You said you are suspicious of Y. But

why

are you suspicous of Y?

Your questions simply struck me as having self-evident answers - and questions with such simple answers do not seem to me like something

anybody

would get 'nervous' about.

[Barromán]

And I will point out again

TO ELIAS

:

3) Here I must add that, I'm spanish, so probably some of the things that you say I could understand them by other way... I understand from the declarations of Elias, that he says that random votes weren't very usefull... so I wanted to test him, and see what he have to says to the fact that he have randomly voted and he has criticised the random votes. From here come the first and the second question.

4) The third question comes from the fact that Elias (yes, the questions was TO ELIAS) the fact that Elias have said a LAY. He said that he saw the game dead, so he changed his random vote. But, that wasn't so much time from post to post... And I see some inconsitences here... From here come the third question.

For me, the fact of the "vote" it's the same to:

Random vote: Y

The game is dead, soy I'll change my vote

I think that the random vote is not very usefull

I WANT ELIAS TO ANSWER IT. Thanks

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

leave elias alone he is my mason buddy (no not rly but he is awesome!)

also lynch kilmenator today

plzkthx

[LyingBrian]

• Vote Count:
  • 2) Barromán
    • Javert
    • kilmenator
  • 2) Elias_the_thief
    • Ancalagon
    • Barromán
  • 2) omg_im_innocent_wtf
    • Elias_the_thief
    • shadowdeath
  • 1) Ancalagon
    • Nocmen
  • 1) kilmenator
    • omg_im_innocent_wtf
  • 1) shadowdeath
    • MeMe
  • 2)
    not voting
    • ac1983fan
    • The Shadow
• Lynch:
  6 votes

[MeMe]

I'll stick with the lurking shadowdeath for the moment, though I'll say that I find Javert's to be the

least

annoying posts to read. He's taking the game seriously, adding real content, and is grammatically sound. This is in no way a commentary on his alignment.

[shadowdeath]

Sorry guys, I kinda forgot about this. >.<

Anyways I promise to look stuff over and post later today. For now, there's no point in keeping my vote on someone when I don't know what's going on.

Unvote

[Elias_the_thief]

I WANT ELIAS TO ANSWER IT. Thanks

ok. I will answer your questions.
my comment wasnt intended to imply that random votes are useless, it meant to say that random votes dont really apply much pressure. random votes are good at the beginning of the game, but not much after one's first or second post. this is also the answer to your second question. i used a random vote, because I do not think random votes are useless. so im not contradicting myself there.
as for the third question, I never said the game was dead, I said it was slowmoving. nothing was happening really besides random votes, so i wanted to start things moving faster. and i think 17 hours is enough time between posts to say the game is moving slowly. as for Javert, theres nothing wrong with defending a player from an attack that is based on nothing. i think its protown to make sure no one gets lynched for dumb reasons.

[Ancalagon]

Elias, this may seem random, but what timezone are you in?

[shadowdeath]

Vote: Ancalagon

I don't think bandwagon necessarily = scum. Besides, 3 people voting on one person won't do much damage.

MOD NOTE

shadowdeath

was replaced by

spectrumvoid

[Elias_the_thief]

Elias, this may seem random, but what timezone are you in?

eastern standard.

[kilmenator]

kil - why dont you try reading the huge post above where i actually give a full answer, are you honestly telling me you skipped post 54 twice?

see this is why there is no point answering questions - noone reads them, if they do they misinterpret them either deliberately or accidentally.

im not answering any more questions or comments for this game ever from kilmenator.
a) because he/she is scum
b) because he/she is too lazy or stupid to READ what i write before responding

1. I did read the post, but I honestly dont think that is a good enough reason to call me scum, and misrepresentation is part of this game, that is why you need to be clear when posting and post in complete thoughts and sentences.
2. I am not scum, and the fact that you are calling me lazy or stupid (an appeal to emotion) really ticks me off and is sometimes used by scum to get people playing on emotion rather than with logic. It is NOT pro-town play, and should not be tolerated as such. If you are pro-town, chill out with the snide remarks and play the

game

. I honestly have been extremely busy, as I am actually an adult with a career that requires me to do something other than sit in front of the computer pushing refresh all day. I play this game for fun, not to be insulted. I read the post, I just did not think it was a good enough reason for a vote and I defintely dont think that paints me as scummy. You are however, entitled to your opinion however wrong it may be. Also, I would like to know why I shouldnt push you to tell me... it sounded like a threat...I dont like threats...
3. I will be honest, I havent really been focusing much on this game,

[Ancalagon]

Rereading.

[MeMe]

I honestly have been extremely busy, as I am actually an adult with a career that requires me to do something other than sit in front of the computer pushing refresh all day. I play this game for fun, not to be insulted.

This

looks like an appeal to emotion to me -- omg's tactics looks less like an appeal to emotion and more like childishness.

Although I understand the frustration of being unfairly accused of behaving in a certain way -- you

admit

to a lack of focus. So, despite the baiting way in which omg phrased his point "b," you're saying it's accurate. Right?

[Javert]

Although I do not agree that Barroman's questions were the most efficient way to get additional information from Elias, he seems sincere enough in his explanation of his intentions that I will

Unvote: Barroman

for the time being.

I think Javert's kinda jumping it a bit on Barroman. He asked Elias a simple question. Regardless of whether it should have been fairly clear, that's hardly cause for a vote, I'm thinking.

The Shadow, in addition to my earlier questions posed to you, please inform me what

you

consider to be "cause for a vote"? What do you think of others' votes in relation to mine - do they have more or less "cause"?

And what is more, if your answer to what you consider "cause for a vote" is anywhere in the realm of "I like to be certain when I vote", would you then suggest that everybody else take that position, such that hardly anybody would vote at the beginning of the game?

im not answering any more questions or comments for this game ever from kilmenator.

Regardless of whether or not you think kilmenator is scum, taking a position such as this is folly. If kilmenator asks you a question and you choose to ignore it, you are doing the town a disservice. Should you ignore such questions solely on that basis, you can rest assured that I will personally re-ask those questions so that you will be compelled to answer them.

The only reasons you should not be answering questions is if you believe it gives away something about your role, or if you believe it is otherwise detrimental to the town, or if answering a question would foil a particular strategy you are pursuing to help the town or to gain information.

I am not scum, and the fact that you are calling me lazy or stupid (an appeal to emotion) really ticks me off and is sometimes used by scum to get people playing on emotion rather than with logic.

I agree with MeMe on this. Calling somebody "lazy or stupid" is not an appeal to emotion - if anything, it is more of a personal attack (perhaps bordering on the realm of ad hominem, but I don't see it as having crossed that line).

Your comments about being busy and "fun v insults" is more of an appeal to emotion than anything omg_im_innocent_wtf has said, as you seem to be asking us not to pressure you for reasons which are not entirely relevant as to whether or not you are scum (those reasons being business and so forth).

Vote: ac1983fan

. Care to comment on the game? There should be plenty to talk about.

This vote could easily be The Shadow, but I am awaiting his answers to my questions before I decide.

[LyingBrian]

• Vote Count:
  • 2) Ancalagon
    • Nocmen
    • shadowdeath
  • 2) Elias_the_thief
    • Ancalagon
    • Barromán
  • 1) ac1983fan
    • Javert
  • 1) Barromán
    • kilmenator
  • 1) kilmenator
    • omg_im_innocent_wtf
  • 1) omg_im_innocent_wtf
    • Elias_the_thief
  • 1) shadowdeath
    • MeMe
  • 2)
    not voting
    • ac1983fan
    • The Shadow
• Lynch:
  6 votes

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

nope. from now on im only answering questions under 2 conditions:

1. Elias must ask me the question.
2. He must begin his post that asks the question with "I wish i was as cool as omg".

(yes.... im joking)

ok 2 serious points:

1. kilmenator - my comments are nothing personal. i simply saying find your play in this game either lazy or stupid.

2. ive found scum already. can we please at least bandwagon kil?