Mini 424 - Game Over

[Nocmen]

Sweeny: I am not linking three people as a scum group. I listed two most likely IMO possibilites for a pair of scum in the group. I stated that omg and Ancalagon seemed likely as a pair, and then ac1983fan and omg seems likely as a pair. That's why I then voted omg, as he shows up in both pairs.

[ac1983fan]

prodded, not much going on here though.

[MeMe]

Well, I never had thought that... and seems wise to me, but I see a little problem...

Probably the mafia don't kill him to make us think that he is not the real doctor...

Note that I didn't say "and we automatically lynch him tomorrow if he's not dead." I said "we can

discuss

it tomorrow."

It's too risky what he have done... did he have real reasons to claim?

Of

course

he shouldn't have claimed, which is why I'm not going to simply "believe him."

[Javert]

prodded, not much going on here though.

You simply

cannot

be serious.

1.) We just had a replacement you could comment on.
2.) We just had a slight deadline extension you could comment on. You could also have informed us whether or not you plan (or planned) on sending the mod a PM for a further extension.
3.) Many players (myself included) have wanted you to explain your "list" of scummy posts, instead of just saying "these posts are scummy".
4.) We just had a vague power role claim followed with a more specific Doctor by a person under comparably little pressure.

If

none of those

counts as "something going on" (let alone when put together), I don't understand why you bother to play at all. This is about as much action as you're going to get on Day One of a game.

More comments on other things to come, but this really needed it's own post.

[Javert]

It really is. ok, I dont agree with your plan to just lynch the shadow based on his lurking.

What if we end up lynching the doc , or possibly a roleblocker? then we'd be screwed.

That worked out for the best. Anyways, on the topic of OMG's claim, its the same thing he did in my last game with him. He claimed power, then claimed scum then got lynched. (he was a roleblocker). I dont think you can take anything he says at face value. That being said, I think lynching OMG would have been a better idea as opposed to shadow. shadow was inactive, so he was replaced.

Since OMG is active, we cant really justify replacing him, but its clear he's going to be no help to town.

I think if we dont get the extension, I'd be much more confortable lynching him then I was with lynching shadow.

These confuse me. Set me straight if I am interpreting you incorrectly, but this is what I am seeing:

1.) You have seen omg_im_innocent_wtf claim 'power' in a past game, then claim scum, then indeed get lynched as 'power' (role-blocker, to be specific).
->

Question

: What 'power' did omg_im_innocent_wtf claim in that game? A role-blocker, or something else? Or did he leave the door open?

2.) From the above, you conclude that we "can't take what omg says at face value" (instead of "omg is either power or scum", which I would have expected).

3.) You think "we'd be screwed" if we lynched power [a doc or a role-blocker].

4.) In this game, you have just seen omg_im_innocent_wtf claim power – and now a Doctor.

Now it seems to me that we know the following:

A.)

omg_im_innocent_wtf is either a Doctor or he is scum.

B.)

The Shadow (now Sweenytodd) can be any role

Given that, I don't see how

you

in particular would be "more comfortable" lynching omg_im_innocent_wtf over Sweenytodd when you have been telling us the whole game that omg's play has been consistent with that of other games,

and

that you have had an example where he claimed power and

was

power,

and

that he has claimed power (specifically Doctor) in this game,

and

you think potentially lynching a Doctor or Role-Blocker would "screw us" in this game.

I would think from your own logic you would have been more comfortable lynching The Shadow (Sweenytodd) – since there is still a chance he is

not

a power role if he is town, but you come to the opposite stance. Could you go into more detail why? I would like you to be as detailed as possible.

Note to All: Please stop unvoting without using colons. They will not be counted.

I'm not so sure calling for counter-claims is a good idea. A couple of possibilities: we might have more than one doctor. If omg is scum, he might be trying to draw a counter-claim to point out the real doc.

As he said, he should be a prime kill target tonight if his claim is valid. If he doesn't die, we can discuss that tomorrow.

I don't believe I've ever seen a mini game with two doctors. Feel free to link me to one if there is an example of such.

I would personally be ecstatic if somebody were to counterclaim Doctor; I think we would be guaranteed at least one scum in two players. A 1:1 trade by the town this early in the game is

always

a good trade. If the Doctor can either save anybody from a nightkill, scare scum away from nightkilling a particular person helpful to the town,

or

be the nail in the coffin of lynching scum (via counterclaiming), they have done their job admirably. Also, as it has been pointed out, a night spent killing a Doctor is a night the scum will not be killing a potential investigative role, or some other role which can effectively narrow down a scum-group (such as role-blocker, Vigilante, etc).

That said, so many people have effectively claimed 'not Doctor' at this point that if omg_im_innocent_wtf

is

scum, his scum-team probably has narrowed down the actual doctor (if there is one) to a small amount of players anyways, and in fact, may already know who the Doctor is. If that is the case, the town loses nothing by counterclaiming, and has much to gain by forcing polarization on the two claimed players.

[Elias_the_thief]

I still disagree with the near random lynch that meme was suggesting. My point was IF we made a near random lynch, I was saying we shouldnt lynch someone who isnt contributing, since they can be replaced (shadow), as opposed to someone that the mod pretty much cant replace because theyre being active, but who's equally useless to the town (OMG). Plus, when I made my post, the only claim OMG had made stated "im power as always". I didnt think that was serious, because of the "as always".

1) in response to the question, he claimed scum, then cop. he ended up being roleblocker. (he managed to get a counterclaim from the real cop, thus he was lynched)

2) I conclude this because OMG seems to be a player that tries to screw the town over if he's screwed (extracting a counterclaim from the real cop in that scenerio I mentioned). So I can see him possibly trying to do the same thing if he's vanilla. I dont think his behavior really reveals much about his role.

3)yeah, it would suck to lose a doc or a RB.

As for "what we know", I disagree with A.) for reasons I stated above.

I'm pretty sure you missed the conclusion I'm drawing from OMG's behavior, or perhaps you simply dont agree with them. I see OMG as someone that will attempt to screw up the game regardless of alignment (though I havent been in any completed games with him in which he is mafia).

[Javert]

Ah, that puts an entirely different light on your posts. Thank you.

[MeMe]

I don't believe I've ever seen a mini game with two doctors. Feel free to link me to one if there is an example of such.

There are at least three examples in the regular minis (and probably a few more in the themes): 241, 280 -- especially notable as it was run by LyingBrian, and 300.

[Javert]

Gracious.

What Elias has pointed out means counterclaiming omg could just plain be disastrous if he is lying as town (something I tend to dismiss as a possibility, but from a player who has a history of doing so, I must now consider it). And further, since LyingBrian has modded a game with two Doctors (one placebo) in a mini before and hence has a history for doing so, I must also consider

that

even though I would normally think it highly unlikely.

This game just got that much more complicated with only a few posts.

[Sweenytodd]

Ok ac1983fan , comments like

I feel there's actually very little to talk about.

and

prodded, not much going on here though.

are simply unacceptable. Did you even bother to read the last couple pages before you spoke? We have person who claimed Doc at lynch -5... What do you think about that? How about me, I just replaced, have you read my post and if so do you agree/disagree with any of the posts? I sorta gave you a pass because I have seen you act like this as a townie, please don't let my support be mis-placed. How about the whole Ancalagon-MeMe thing, anything int here you would like to comment on AC? Lurking and silence does not help a town. Finding scum requires putting yourself out there that others may evealuate what you say and comment and react and thus give away clues as to their alignment.

[LyingBrian]

• Vote Count:
  • 2) ac1983fan
    • Barromán
    • Javert
  • 2) Ancalagon
    • MeMe
    • Sweenytodd
  • 2) omg_im_innocent_wtf
    • kilmenator
    • Nocmen
  • 1) kilmenator
    • omg_im_innocent_wtf
  • 1) MeMe
    • Ancalagon
  • 3)
    not voting
    • ac1983fan
    • Elias_the_thief
    • spectrumvoid
• Lynch:
  6 votes
  
• Deadline:
  SUN 05/13/07 08:00 GMT

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

Javert - Just so you know my past. I have claimed 3 times on this site.

Doctor - I was doctor
Cop - I was villager
Cop - I was roleblocker

^_^

the first was obvious, the second was FPS and correct (imo obv), and the third was me sabotaging a game with reasons that i wont go in to here because it would be sidetracking.

I have never been scum in any game ive played on this site, so tbh looking at past games is kinda useless.

I claimed because right then I was in a coinflip situation, and i assumed that we were hours away from deadline. i dont want to risk flipping and villagers losing a power role.

it should be fairly obvious that i have absolutely no reason to sabotage this game, so the most clear reasons for my claim in order objectively are:

1) im the doctor. im telling the truth.
2) im a villager, fpsing to get killed tonight and save both the doctor and cop.
3) im a scum.... yeah this one doesnt make much sense to me, i could just as easily have removed the threat by switching to ac and putting him in the lead, that would clearly be the optimal action as far as i can see. let me know if you can think of any reason that would make me being scum here possible, and if you do make it concise cause im just skimming through those long verbose posts.

[Barromán]

omg, you are showing options, not reasons.

I want to now, if you are the real doctor, WHY you reveal your roll. You have 2 votes, and weren't the most voated. I think you were too early.

[spectrumvoid]

I have some RL stuff going on (unexpected, cropped up), and I need around 5 days before I can do heavy posting. I'll try my best to get something out a couple of days before deadline.

[MeMe]

omg -- the fact that a full count is needed at deadline for a lynch to occur still makes your claim silly. You weren't in any real danger.

[ac1983fan]

prodded, not much going on here though.

3.) Many players (myself included) have wanted you to explain your "list" of scummy posts, instead of just saying "these posts are scummy".

ughh,,, Your gonna make me go back, reread every post I listed, and write a paragraph about everyone? I though most of them were obvious.
I also though OMg's claim was a joke which was why i didn;t say anything about it.

[Elias_the_thief]

OMG, in option 2 youre missing the possibility of causing the real doc to counterclaim, and that makes it a decidedly anti town play. I dont like the claim at all, especially when it was so unnecessary.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

omg, you are showing options, not reasons.

I want to now, if you are the real doctor, WHY you reveal your roll. You have 2 votes, and weren't the most voated. I think you were too early.

I claimed because right then I was in a coinflip situation, and i assumed that we were hours away from deadline. i dont want to risk flipping and villagers losing a power role.

I claimed because right then I was in a coinflip situation, and i assumed that we were hours away from deadline. i dont want to risk flipping and villagers losing a power role.

I claimed because right then I was in a coinflip situation, and i assumed that we were hours away from deadline. i dont want to risk flipping and villagers losing a power role.

I claimed because right then I was in a coinflip situation, and i assumed that we were hours away from deadline. i dont want to risk flipping and villagers losing a power role.

I claimed because right then I was in a coinflip situation, and i assumed that we were hours away from deadline. i dont want to risk flipping and villagers losing a power role.

let me know how many times i have to post something before you actually read it.

[MeMe]

omg_, please let me know if

you've

read and understood

my

post just a few up (not to mention the posts when we were actually under the deadline AND LB's deadline rules in the initial post) which explain that we needed a full count -- that's six votes today -- for someone to be lynched at deadline.

If you post again without commenting on that huge fact which makes your "coinflip" situation and worry about losing [your claimed] power role completely irrational -- I'm going to assume you haven't.

[MeMe]

You know what, though? We're frittering away our extended, but still very short, time before night hits on this stupid distraction.

Is anyone seriously desiring an omg_ lynch today? If so, speak up. If not, let's shift the topic to "Figuring Out Who to Lynch Before It's Too Late." Cool?

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

omg_, please let me know if

you've

read and understood

my

post just a few up (not to mention the posts when we were actually under the deadline AND LB's deadline rules in the initial post) which explain that we needed a full count -- that's six votes today -- for someone to be lynched at deadline.

If you post again without commenting on that huge fact which makes your "coinflip" situation and worry about losing [your claimed] power role completely irrational -- I'm going to assume you haven't.

how is that relevant?

do you think i knew that at the time?

[LyingBrian]

• Vote Count:
  • 2) ac1983fan
    • Barromán
    • Javert
  • 2) Ancalagon
    • MeMe
    • Sweenytodd
  • 2) omg_im_innocent_wtf
    • kilmenator
    • Nocmen
  • 1) kilmenator
    • omg_im_innocent_wtf
  • 1) MeMe
    • Ancalagon
  • 3)
    not voting
    • ac1983fan
    • Elias_the_thief
    • spectrumvoid
• Lynch:
  6 votes
  
• Deadline:
  SUN 05/13/07 08:00 GMT

[MeMe]

how is that relevant?

do you think i knew that at the time?

Since it's been in the rules post since the beginning and since I (and Javert & kilmenator & maybe others -- I'm not sure) talked about it, you certainly

should

have.

If your role is truly doctor and you didn't bother to find out what the deadline rules were before you claimed, you should admit that you acted in negligence and quit pretending that everyone ELSE is to blame for not understanding why you did it.

Now. Can we move on?

[ac1983fan]

vote:nolynch

at the moment, it seems like no lynch may be the best option. with the deadline fast approaching, we have very little information to work on. It doesn't help that I need to get a grade in a class FROM AN F To at least an b- by tomorrow, so I can't be on here to see any additional developements.

[MeMe]

Cool.

unvote: Ancalagon
vote: ac1983fan