Mini 424 - Game Over

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

guys deadline has fallen already. that should be night, and a 2 way flip between me and ac. yes?

[MeMe]

Um...no. Deadline's a little more than 32 hours away, by my calculations.

[spectrumvoid]

mod

Please extend the deadline. Take it as giving time for the replacement to read through and say something.

I really don't like soft/partial claiming...

strong fos: omg

[LyingBrian]

• Vote Count:
  • 2) ac1983fan
    • Barromán
    • Javert
  • 2) omg_im_innocent_wtf
    • kilmenator
    • Nocmen
  • 1) Ancalagon
    • MeMe
  • 1) kilmenator
    • omg_im_innocent_wtf
  • 1) MeMe
    • Ancalagon
  • 4)
    not voting
    • ac1983fan
    • Elias_the_thief
    • spectrumvoid
    • Sweenytodd
• Lynch:
  6 votes
  
• Deadline:
  SUN 05/13/07 08:00 GMT

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

oh ur dates are all back to front and stuff.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

ah forget it ill just claim, i kinda want to die tonight and it will at least guarantee the cop another peek.

IM THE DOCTOR.

unvote

do what you guys want.......

[kilmenator]

ah forget it ill just claim, i kinda want to die tonight and it will at least guarantee the cop another peek.

IM THE DOCTOR.

unvote

do what you guys want.......

You have to be kidding me. Why the heck would you have claimed doc right now!?? Explanation please OMG and

unvote.

[MeMe]

Um...I'll put the current idiocy aside.

Sweenytodd -- I've seen you about several times for the last couple of days. Let's have a post.

[Barromán]

Any one say that he is lieing? I'm NOT the Doctor, so, I will believe him.

[MeMe]

I'm not so sure calling for counter-claims is a good idea. A couple of possibilities: we might have more than one doctor. If omg is scum, he might be trying to

draw

a counter-claim to point out the real doc.

As he said, he should be a prime kill target tonight if his claim is valid. If he doesn't die, we can discuss that tomorrow.

[spectrumvoid]

Sigh... Barroman returns, and I managed to lose my file of notes on him somewhere. *goes digging*

[Barromán]

I'm not so sure calling for counter-claims is a good idea. A couple of possibilities: we might have more than one doctor. If omg is scum, he might be trying to

draw

a counter-claim to point out the real doc.

As he said, he should be a prime kill target tonight if his claim is valid. If he doesn't die, we can discuss that tomorrow.

Well, I never had thought that... and seems wise to me, but I see a little problem...

Probably the mafia don't kill him to make us think that he is not the real doctor...

It's too risky what he have done... did he have real reasons to claim?

[LyingBrian]

• Vote Count:
  • 2) ac1983fan
    • Barromán
    • Javert
  • 2) omg_im_innocent_wtf
    • kilmenator
    • Nocmen
  • 1) Ancalagon
    • MeMe
  • 1) kilmenator
    • omg_im_innocent_wtf
  • 1) MeMe
    • Ancalagon
  • 4)
    not voting
    • ac1983fan
    • Elias_the_thief
    • spectrumvoid
    • Sweenytodd
• Lynch:
  6 votes
  
• Deadline:
  SUN 05/13/07 08:00 GMT

[Sweenytodd]

Sure MeMe... I've been working on my notes and planning a post so here we go....

ac1983fan :
Not sure how to read him... He has a decent number of posts but not very much in the way of actual analysis... I don't understand his post with the post numbers, seems like he just threw them out there with no reason he picked those posts in particular...

I feel there's actually very little to talk about.

I don't like that phrase but thats just a pet peeve of mine... Only other game I've seen him in was a newbie game where he was lynched D1 for similar content... He was town.

Ancalagon:
The early discussion between him and Elias seemed contrived... Maybe he was just hoping to get people talking Day 1... not sure... I also missed the "missing data" but it seems odd that someone who read through it though unable to quote it would be unable to recall things said during that time...

I've still not seen any analysis from you on the stuff that isn't missing.

I love this MeMe, exactly how I felt... Ancalagon, why not go through and tel us who you find the most scummy and who you find the least scummy...

Barromán:
Doesn;t have the most content so far... His questions to Elias seemed normal to me but I don't know why he freaked out when Javert answered them for him...

Elias:
Elias got tripped up in the very beinning, I don't think he expected MeMe to call him on his reasoning for voting... All in all I think the MeMe exchange and the Ancalagon discussion went reasonably...

by this logic youve been scum in all the games ive played with you. Smile

Quoted for truthiness= ) I liked this line. Nothing really stands out to me as scummy from him, seems to be taking the ignore OMG tack in this game which I would say tends to be the best course of action...

Javert: Not sure how I feel about Javert... He seems too eager to hop on Elias for MeMe's logic but has been pretty consistent throughout the game holding people to account for their posts. When questioned by MeMe I thought he at least took the time to defend himself which I appreciate. Gives me a pro-town feel atm but I always reserve the right to chnge my mind = ).

Kilmenator:
Has spent a lot of posts dealing with Elias, OMG, and Javert... Seems like OMG really got under her skin and then Javert hopped on her about it... Not giving me strong town or scum vibes either way...

MeMe:
Very consistent posts. Has engaged several people in discussions through questioning and pointing out posts that stick out. Seems fairly pro-town to me, seems to be actively pursiung those who look suspicious with the clear-headedness to drop it once her concerns are alleviated. The lurker hunting is to me a null-tell, it's an easy excuse for scum but if a townsperson isn't contributing to the discussion than it's tough to five them the benefit of the doubt so I can understand it.

Nocmen:
Need more content to analyze, he only has 11 posts. He is the only one who has gone over AC's list and responded to each of the posts.

No, I am not saying that those three are the scum group, but it could be likely. I just find it coincidental that both ac1983fan and Ancalagon have defended omg as well as counter-attacked people going after omg. I can't tell if both are scum directly, as one could be coincidence, but two i find hard to belive. That is why I am voting for omg right now, because I dont think that it is coincidental of what both Ancalagon and ac1983fan are doing with regards to omg. I think that omg is scum, along with at least one of the other two.

I don't like this post. I can understand going back on later days to find conections but on day 1 trying to link 3 people as a scum group seems ridiculous.

OMG:
I cannot read OMG... Every time i have seen OMG in a game he has seemed like scum... Then he gets lynched day 1 and is town so I will assume he is town for the moment... That claim was foolish, who claims on two votes with no major pressure (if anything I thought the pressure was swinging away from him..). This better not be like Mini 417 OMG... but I agree, there won't be a counterclaim(i.e. counter claiming doc on day 1 is suicide and a bad move)... we'll wait and see what happens.

Spectrumvoid:
My fellow replacer... Like the content so far, looking forward to the next post. Curious about

here's something about elias that I'm unclear about, I have to read again.

Am interested in what your re-read says.

I'm not really getting strong feelings about most of the players here. If I were to make a list I suppose the scummiest I see are Ancalagon, AC, and OMG... So far I find SV, MeMe, and Javert the least scummy because I find myself agreeing with the logic they present.

Vote: Ancalagon

[Nocmen]

Sweeny: I am not linking three people as a scum group. I listed two most likely IMO possibilites for a pair of scum in the group. I stated that omg and Ancalagon seemed likely as a pair, and then ac1983fan and omg seems likely as a pair. That's why I then voted omg, as he shows up in both pairs.

[ac1983fan]

prodded, not much going on here though.

[MeMe]

Well, I never had thought that... and seems wise to me, but I see a little problem...

Probably the mafia don't kill him to make us think that he is not the real doctor...

Note that I didn't say "and we automatically lynch him tomorrow if he's not dead." I said "we can

discuss

it tomorrow."

It's too risky what he have done... did he have real reasons to claim?

Of

course

he shouldn't have claimed, which is why I'm not going to simply "believe him."

[Javert]

prodded, not much going on here though.

You simply

cannot

be serious.

1.) We just had a replacement you could comment on.
2.) We just had a slight deadline extension you could comment on. You could also have informed us whether or not you plan (or planned) on sending the mod a PM for a further extension.
3.) Many players (myself included) have wanted you to explain your "list" of scummy posts, instead of just saying "these posts are scummy".
4.) We just had a vague power role claim followed with a more specific Doctor by a person under comparably little pressure.

If

none of those

counts as "something going on" (let alone when put together), I don't understand why you bother to play at all. This is about as much action as you're going to get on Day One of a game.

More comments on other things to come, but this really needed it's own post.

[Javert]

It really is. ok, I dont agree with your plan to just lynch the shadow based on his lurking.

What if we end up lynching the doc , or possibly a roleblocker? then we'd be screwed.

That worked out for the best. Anyways, on the topic of OMG's claim, its the same thing he did in my last game with him. He claimed power, then claimed scum then got lynched. (he was a roleblocker). I dont think you can take anything he says at face value. That being said, I think lynching OMG would have been a better idea as opposed to shadow. shadow was inactive, so he was replaced.

Since OMG is active, we cant really justify replacing him, but its clear he's going to be no help to town.

I think if we dont get the extension, I'd be much more confortable lynching him then I was with lynching shadow.

These confuse me. Set me straight if I am interpreting you incorrectly, but this is what I am seeing:

1.) You have seen omg_im_innocent_wtf claim 'power' in a past game, then claim scum, then indeed get lynched as 'power' (role-blocker, to be specific).
->

Question

: What 'power' did omg_im_innocent_wtf claim in that game? A role-blocker, or something else? Or did he leave the door open?

2.) From the above, you conclude that we "can't take what omg says at face value" (instead of "omg is either power or scum", which I would have expected).

3.) You think "we'd be screwed" if we lynched power [a doc or a role-blocker].

4.) In this game, you have just seen omg_im_innocent_wtf claim power – and now a Doctor.

Now it seems to me that we know the following:

A.)

omg_im_innocent_wtf is either a Doctor or he is scum.

B.)

The Shadow (now Sweenytodd) can be any role

Given that, I don't see how

you

in particular would be "more comfortable" lynching omg_im_innocent_wtf over Sweenytodd when you have been telling us the whole game that omg's play has been consistent with that of other games,

and

that you have had an example where he claimed power and

was

power,

and

that he has claimed power (specifically Doctor) in this game,

and

you think potentially lynching a Doctor or Role-Blocker would "screw us" in this game.

I would think from your own logic you would have been more comfortable lynching The Shadow (Sweenytodd) – since there is still a chance he is

not

a power role if he is town, but you come to the opposite stance. Could you go into more detail why? I would like you to be as detailed as possible.

Note to All: Please stop unvoting without using colons. They will not be counted.

I'm not so sure calling for counter-claims is a good idea. A couple of possibilities: we might have more than one doctor. If omg is scum, he might be trying to draw a counter-claim to point out the real doc.

As he said, he should be a prime kill target tonight if his claim is valid. If he doesn't die, we can discuss that tomorrow.

I don't believe I've ever seen a mini game with two doctors. Feel free to link me to one if there is an example of such.

I would personally be ecstatic if somebody were to counterclaim Doctor; I think we would be guaranteed at least one scum in two players. A 1:1 trade by the town this early in the game is

always

a good trade. If the Doctor can either save anybody from a nightkill, scare scum away from nightkilling a particular person helpful to the town,

or

be the nail in the coffin of lynching scum (via counterclaiming), they have done their job admirably. Also, as it has been pointed out, a night spent killing a Doctor is a night the scum will not be killing a potential investigative role, or some other role which can effectively narrow down a scum-group (such as role-blocker, Vigilante, etc).

That said, so many people have effectively claimed 'not Doctor' at this point that if omg_im_innocent_wtf

is

scum, his scum-team probably has narrowed down the actual doctor (if there is one) to a small amount of players anyways, and in fact, may already know who the Doctor is. If that is the case, the town loses nothing by counterclaiming, and has much to gain by forcing polarization on the two claimed players.

[Elias_the_thief]

I still disagree with the near random lynch that meme was suggesting. My point was IF we made a near random lynch, I was saying we shouldnt lynch someone who isnt contributing, since they can be replaced (shadow), as opposed to someone that the mod pretty much cant replace because theyre being active, but who's equally useless to the town (OMG). Plus, when I made my post, the only claim OMG had made stated "im power as always". I didnt think that was serious, because of the "as always".

1) in response to the question, he claimed scum, then cop. he ended up being roleblocker. (he managed to get a counterclaim from the real cop, thus he was lynched)

2) I conclude this because OMG seems to be a player that tries to screw the town over if he's screwed (extracting a counterclaim from the real cop in that scenerio I mentioned). So I can see him possibly trying to do the same thing if he's vanilla. I dont think his behavior really reveals much about his role.

3)yeah, it would suck to lose a doc or a RB.

As for "what we know", I disagree with A.) for reasons I stated above.

I'm pretty sure you missed the conclusion I'm drawing from OMG's behavior, or perhaps you simply dont agree with them. I see OMG as someone that will attempt to screw up the game regardless of alignment (though I havent been in any completed games with him in which he is mafia).

[Javert]

Ah, that puts an entirely different light on your posts. Thank you.

[MeMe]

I don't believe I've ever seen a mini game with two doctors. Feel free to link me to one if there is an example of such.

There are at least three examples in the regular minis (and probably a few more in the themes): 241, 280 -- especially notable as it was run by LyingBrian, and 300.

[Javert]

Gracious.

What Elias has pointed out means counterclaiming omg could just plain be disastrous if he is lying as town (something I tend to dismiss as a possibility, but from a player who has a history of doing so, I must now consider it). And further, since LyingBrian has modded a game with two Doctors (one placebo) in a mini before and hence has a history for doing so, I must also consider

that

even though I would normally think it highly unlikely.

This game just got that much more complicated with only a few posts.

[Sweenytodd]

Ok ac1983fan , comments like

I feel there's actually very little to talk about.

and

prodded, not much going on here though.

are simply unacceptable. Did you even bother to read the last couple pages before you spoke? We have person who claimed Doc at lynch -5... What do you think about that? How about me, I just replaced, have you read my post and if so do you agree/disagree with any of the posts? I sorta gave you a pass because I have seen you act like this as a townie, please don't let my support be mis-placed. How about the whole Ancalagon-MeMe thing, anything int here you would like to comment on AC? Lurking and silence does not help a town. Finding scum requires putting yourself out there that others may evealuate what you say and comment and react and thus give away clues as to their alignment.

[LyingBrian]

• Vote Count:
  • 2) ac1983fan
    • Barromán
    • Javert
  • 2) Ancalagon
    • MeMe
    • Sweenytodd
  • 2) omg_im_innocent_wtf
    • kilmenator
    • Nocmen
  • 1) kilmenator
    • omg_im_innocent_wtf
  • 1) MeMe
    • Ancalagon
  • 3)
    not voting
    • ac1983fan
    • Elias_the_thief
    • spectrumvoid
• Lynch:
  6 votes
  
• Deadline:
  SUN 05/13/07 08:00 GMT