Mini #381-Werewolf: Cancelled

[Rathyr]

Werewolf

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STATUS:

Day two, nine alive, three dead.
______________________________________________

Players

Alive:

Lowell
Jack
conflux
perfect62834
CoolBot
Elias_the_thief
trabony
Echo419
Green Crayons

Dead:

wolfsbane - Watchman

StallingChamp - Villager
Atticus - Villager

_____________________________________________________

Rules

(Mostly stolen from PBuG)

[1] Have fun and do not keep others from having fun.
[2] No communication outside the thread unless your role allows you to do so.
[3] Get your choices in before the deadlines. If you don't, I process a "no choice".
[4] No quoting my or others' emails/PM's.
[5] If you're dead YOU'RE DEAD, so be a good corpse and keep your mouth shut!
[6] Lynching will be done by regular majority.
[7] During the day, I may set a deadline. Once the minute of the deadline hits, the game goes into twilight and nothing relevant may be posted. If there was no majority in the votes, a lynch will occur if a player has at least half the votes cast so far. Otherwise, there will be a no lynch.
[8] Only votes in

BOLD

will be counted. Please clearly unvote if you want to change your vote.
[9] Do NOT edit or delete your posts! If you made an error, just post again.
[10] Blah blah blah!

[Rathyr]

Role PMs:

TOWNIE (7x)

You are a Townie. You have no special abilities.

You win when the werewolves are all dead.

WEREWOLF (2x)

You are a member of the werewolf pack with XXXX.

You may talk to your partner during Night. Each Night, you (as a group) may attempt to kill someone by sending a PM to the Moderator containing the name of that player.

You win when you have eliminated the Town, or when nothing can prevent this.

HERBALIST (1x) (Doctor)

You are an Herbalist.

Each Night, you may send a PM to the Moderator containing the name of another player. This player will be protected from a kill attempt that Night.

You win when the werewolves have been eliminated.

WATCHMAN (2x)

(Pro-town)

The Watch consists of two watchmen who can choose to patrol as a team or as singles. They choose a name, whose house they watch. They cannot prevent a murder, but have a chance of discovering the identity of the killer(s) (50% for a single Watchman, 100% for the team).

(The watchmen can communicate like masons at night.)

You win when the werewolves have been eliminated.

[Rathyr]

It is now night zero!

Please send in night choices ASAP.

[Rathyr]

Day one dawns cold and dreary. The villagers wander from their homes, having forgotten the threat of the werewolves. Upon seeing wolfsbane's house, they quickly remember.

The door is smashed in and blood is splattered all over the floor. One of the villagers says,

"I.. I've had some experience with the mafia, but I've never... never seen anything like... like this."

Another of the villagers loses his lunch.

The body of wolfsbane is not to be found, until, that is, the villagers look to the ceiling.

What is left of wolfsbane is hanging from one of the rafters, blood drips to the floor. His ribs are splayed and his half-eaten limbs are flung about. His face has been gnawed on but still his expression of terror is apparent.

He is holding something in his hand that on closer inspection proves to be a flashlight. Wolfsbane was a watchman.

The villagers quickly leave the house and gather in the town square to discuss this new menace...

[Rathyr]

With eleven alive it will take six votes to lynch.

[Lowell]

vote Jack

First post, hell's yeah.

[Lowell]

Also, a watchman being dead is harsh.

Looking over the game setup, having the masons claim day 1 seemed like a good option to me. Now, that's impossible. Weak.

[CoolBot]

vote: Lowell

He'll have to explain why having cops in the open is a good thing.

[Jack]

vote:Lowell

Seems poor reasoning to me as well. If two watchmen claim there's a 50% chance one of them will be killed that night (only one doc).

Also, he voted me :p

[trabony]

Cool picture at the top!

vote: nothing

, I was going to randomly vote but I want to see what Lowell has to say.

[Green Crayons]

Vote: Atticus

. Last to confirm.

[Rathyr]

"Vote Count One"

Lowell (2) -

Jack, Coolbot

Jack (1) -

Lowell

With eleven alive it will take six votes to lynch.

[conflux]

Randomvote: Coolbot

[Atticus]

Well, now we only have 50% chance of having a cop result. That buddy-thing seems like a real liability.

Vote: StallingChamp

[Lowell]

Well, now we only have 50% chance of having a cop result. That buddy-thing seems like a real liability.

Vote: StallingChamp

Also, they seem to be more like trackers than COPs, making them more useless.

And I did have a good reason for suggesting the masons should come out.... I didn't read the whole PM. I thought it just said they could communicate at night, not that they could do anything useful.

Of course, now that I

have

read the PM I still think it would be a good idea for the remaining Watchman to come out. We have a doctor, and that gives her/him someone to protect. The watchman's powers are limited, but as a confirmed innocent s/he could perhaps be more powerful. The odds of hitting the doc are pretty low.

PS- I'll save the next four people to view this thread the trouble and go ahead and say "OMG! That suggestion is SOOOOOO scummy,

FOS Lowell

"

Seriously, though, I think this makes sense. If I recall, this basic strategy is how newbie games were broken, so I don't see why it wouldn't work here. Discuss.

[CoolBot]

If the the watchman claims, the doc must protect him. The mafia can then target the rest of the town with impunity until they hit the doc (1/7th chance if the watchman claims and we lynch someone today). Then it's lights out for the watchman

Since Lowell is still holding to his scumtacular plan even when he knows how scummy it is, my vote will be staying right where it is.

[Green Crayons]

And I did have a good reason for suggesting the masons should come out.... I didn't read the whole PM. I thought it just said they could communicate at night, not that they could do anything useful.

How exactly did you read the PM? Their ability was stated before that fact that they could communicate at night like masons.

You still didn't explain why you thought two masons - under the assumption that they had no other ability beyond communication - should come out Day One. The fact that they had an additional ability doesn't really add anything to the situation of revealing themselves, in my opinion, so I'd like to know why you think differently.

For the record, your suggestion isn't scummy, but I find it so when people point fingers at themselves. I never take a joking statement lightly.

[Echo419]

Yikes. Quite a gory scene, Raythr.
Lowell... gah. I can see thinking the watchmen were just masons, but even so outing themselves on D1 only makes them targets. Then, with 1 watchman left and you wanting him or her out too... gah again. He only has 50% chance. So he gets no result half the time, at the risk of having the doc or investigation target killed as well. In short, I agree with CoolBot.

Vote:Lowell

. Those are some pretty good plans- for scum.

[Echo419]

Ah, GC posted while I was.

[Jack]

The werewolves have 1/7 chance of getting the doc while the watchman would have a 1/9 chance

of having a

50%

chance

of identifying the killer.

If the watchman doesn't claim the werewolves have a 1/8 chance of killing doc and a 1/8 chance of killing watchman, and the watchman has the same chance as before, correct?

unvote:Lowell

It does seem like a good idea for the watchman to claim. Claiming increases the chance of the werewolves getting the doc by removing the chance of of them killing the watchman. It also increases the towns chances of lynching a werewolf this round.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[wolfsbane]

[sour grapes]yeah, thanks werewolves...didn't really want to play this game anyway[/sour grapes] Go town!

[Green Crayons]

Claiming increases the chance of the werewolves getting the doc by removing the chance of of them killing the watchman.

Uh, how is this a good trade off? I'd take doc protection over 50% watchman.. who isn't a cop, so has to be lucky enough to choose the same person as the fleabags. Herbalist > Watchman, hands down. Why do we want the Herbalist dead first? Honestly, the only good the Watchman is - in any realistic sense, assuming the Powers That Be don't give him/her a super lucky choice - is that he has a definitive role to claim and can clear himself as the second Watchman.

It also increases the towns chances of lynching a werewolf this round.

When the town has so few assests - beyond, of course, our awesome powers of deduction and observation - I don't enjoy them being used in the first round. If we have a role claim now, on Day One, that pushes our odds of hitting a furbag (assuming, of course, that everyone plays perfectly and we just randomly lynch someone) from 2/11 to 2/10. ... Not that big of a difference, and it gives the scum additional information that they didn't need to know. Now, if we get down to - say, I don't know - 5 players, and there's still a Watchman and Herbalist around, then sure, a roleclaim might be a smart and viable option, as the decrease in living players make the information more valuable to the town.

But right now? Putting our doctor in greater danger and barely making a dent on the choices to lynch from, not to mention just handing information over to the scum? Hah, i vote no.


Sidenote: Oh, the irony of wolfsbane's handle. It gave me an inside chuckle.

[Jack]

Hmm here's the way I see it though. Werewolves choose from 8 players. They have a 1/4 chance of killing a player with a power role. If watchman claims, they have a 1/7 chance. Isn't that fairly significant?

As for the doctor being so much better, it says "50% chance of identifying the

killer(s)

. ID'ing both the werewolves would be pretty sweet.

[Rathyr]

Er, actually, I don't think that would work like that.

It seems a little broken to me.

However, I will ask the scum community on the mafia discussion board to see what they think before I make a ruling.

[Green Crayons]

Hmm here's the way I see it though. Werewolves choose from 8 players. They have a 1/4 chance of killing a player with a power role. If watchman claims, they have a 1/7 chance. Isn't that fairly significant?

It would be if I was to weigh the roles of the Herbalist and Watchman equally, but as I said before, I value the watchman at this point barely above a regular townsperson - he just simply can clear himself with a name.

As for the doctor being so much better, it says "50% chance of identifying the killer(s). ID'ing both the werewolves would be pretty sweet.

I didn't really take into consideration that perhaps the watchman/men could find the names of both furballs (good catch, by the way). But, that may just because I don't think any sane mod would create such a broken ability. Assuming things went differently, we might have 1. two living watchmen who very well were lucky enough to 2. both target the same person who just so happened to 3. be the night kill of the wolves. Sure, a longshot of some sort - but a possibility nonetheless that on Day 1 the town would win because the watchmen exposed scum.

The point being that discovering both killers on a single night and ending the game right then and there just seems to be too powerful of a role, regardless of probabilities and percentages as the fact that it can still occur is too dangerous of a factor to leave in a fair and balanced game.