Mini 370: Reverse Mafia - Game Over!

[Yosarian2]

Then again if there are no multiple roles we could have everyone claiming and if there is for example only one doc claim we revive that person but 2 cop claims we don't revive either of those.

Except, what good would that do? The doc would just die. Unless we were in a situation where all we had to do was revive one more good guy in order to win, or something like that, it dosn't sound worth it.

Also we don't have a counter claim for RB which would point out there not being multiple powerroles.

Well, it points to there not being multiple roleblockers. However, I tend to think that it's fairly likely there might be more then one pro-town vig-like role. Just a hunch on my part, but if vigs are the only way to get rid of scum that have been revived, I hope there's more then one anyway.

Yos2 posts good but then again it doesn't matter whether you are town or scum analyzing the setup is always gonna look the same.

Well, if you don't want to revive me today, offer another suggestion. Who do you think we should revive?

[al_kohaulec]

Right now Yos is the only one I have thoughts on reviving, we still have two more to do later though.

Out of curiosity, Yos, if we had to choose those other two players now, who do you think you'd choose and why?

[Yosarian2]

Hmmm...don't really feel like I have enough information to pick two people right now.

I can tell you I wouldn't vote for m4hem at this time, basically because I've disagreed with almost everything he's said so far this game. Disagreeing with me isn't a scum tell, of course, but I'm starting to wonder if he's intentionally giving the town bad stratagy advice, like his suggestion that we massclaim for example. And I wouldn't vote for themanhimself, for reasons I explained before (even if he is telling the truth, we still probably don't want to revive him right away, now that he's claimed). I've got a feeling that it's more likely then not that themanhimself is telling the truth, as I'm not sure that a scum wanting to take a gambit would claim roleblocker at that point, but still I'd rather wait until we have need of a roleblocker before we bring him out into play.

If I had to pick one person to revive right now right now, it'd probably be chaotic diablo; he was observent when it came to the mod post and the set-up and seems to have been both thinking about how it would affect the game and what it might mean; I tend to consider that kind of stratigic thinking at least a small pro-town tell. Otherwise, though, I'm really not sure; there's a lot of people we've heard almost nothing from yet.

[chaotic_diablo]

IMO, there is too much speculation about the set-up of the game. What we really need to do is to talk about

how

we can find the right candidate to revive.

I'm also not in favor in reviving m4hem just because of the faulty logic and suggestions. For instance, ignoring a revived player's comments yet urging for a power claim revival. Pretty counterproductive by itself.

Yellowbounder isn't a good candidate for the lack of posts and fishing for information on the cop.

The only good candidate is Yos, but that's all. I still haven't found any others, though al_ko and twito might be just from my biases.

[al_kohaulec]

Perhaps that's due to Arrested Development.

I'm mostly decided M4yhem and TheMan I don't want to revive, it's possible I'll change my mind on TheMan if I don't find a better candidate, but Yos I've decided I would like to see revived. I'll do a look over the thread to see if I can find thoughts on other players, I'll also look at C_D and twito because they were both mentioned so far as players being looked at for revival.

[al_kohaulec]

And what do you think is better, ressing a weak townie or powerful townie in the beginning?[/discussion topic]

I say that we raise the most powerful townies we can. I vote that those who want to be considered for revival should claim first.

I noticed this as theman's first post and wanted to point it out. Even though theman claimed a RB, I find him as pretty scummy from his actions. This is one of those points were I'm suspicious of a player for what he's done, but doubtful and want to think he's protown for what he claims to be, a roleblocker. So I don't want theman revived until later in the game because I find him to be kind of scummy right now, but even as a protown player, he would be of more use once we decide on a player to start blocking.

As far as there not being any multiples of the same role, I find this doubtful. The lack of a RB counterclaim could be due to multiple reasons, amognst them:
*The other RB doesn't want to claim yet.
*There is really no other RB in the game.
*I forgot the third one.

I also find him suspicious for that quote earlier, trying to get the power roles to claim early. He even restates later, after we discuss claiming to be a bad thing, that he's in favor of reviving power roles, and that "scum w/o good claims" are less likely to be revived. This sounds to me like he's fishing for the power roles to be outed. I was also thinking that, since a RB is so hard to prove in this game, that he could have easily fake claimed as such to try to get revived early.


CTD I'm leaning slightly more on the townie side, but don't have an overwhelming read on him. He first mentioned being against massclaiming as it could ruin the fun of the game, and later I think again because of how it could be bad for us. His posts have seemed in the town's best interests, and I might be willing to revive him.



Hmm... I put yellowbounder down as my "more likely to be scum list" and had to review his posts to remember why I thought that. He only has one post so far, and this is it:

MOD: Can a cop investigate Limbo players?

Normally, in a Mafia game you would random vote someone, and everyone voting themselves will get us nowhere, so

Vote: themanhimself

.

Oh, I remember why now. It was weak reasoning, but something that's better kept in privacy for now. Thinking about it again, I think he may be townie, but not worth reviving.



Thoth was doubtful of the roleblocker claim and didn't necessarily believe it. He also said he was in favor of reviving Yos because of his reasoning, but didn't vote him yet because he doesn't want to rush it. He wants everybody to weigh in before we act too hastily.


Yos, as I've said, is my top taret for revival. He has posted a lot of dicussion that helps the town, and has seemed the most protown player that I've seen.


M4yhem, believe it or not, I believe to be protown, but I don't want him to be revived. Some of his suggestions have been for the town's best interest, but he has mentioned two things that are bad for us.

First of all, he suggested essentially a mass claim of the power roles. Now this is, without really looking into it, something that appears very beneficial to the town. If we make sure we resurrect only power roles, then we'll be able to avoid the scum, and take a strong control over the game straight from the beginning. The bad part of this is scum can fake claim to be revived, and then start killing off our power roles. But I can see how a townie player would like this plan, and how scum wouldn't, without looking into the plan too deeply.

Secondly, he mentioned not listening to arguments made by previously revived players. The reason this could be good is that if we make a mistake and revive scum, then they could easily influence us into reviving one of their scumbuddies. For instance, we could revive Yos, and if he's scum, he'd at that time have a lot of our trust. He could very likely wield a lot of influence in convincing us to revive C_D and/or alko, his scumbuddies. That's two, enough for them to win already. Of course this is bad because it stifles conversation, and we need to be able to evaluate what everybody says.


alko, as for myself, in the beginning I was against having myself revived, but now I might be more for it. Obv I don't want to go into specifics, but I'll be more willing to be revived if the town decides they'd like me to be revived.


Twito I'm a little suspicious of. He mentions how alignment doesn't have any effect on how you speculate on the setup, but it's what you share with the town, not how you speculate on the setup, that shows your alignment. It seems to me that he also uses this argument as reason for Yos's alignment not being of any matter at all. I am against a twito revival right now.


C_D noticed some good mechanics in the game so far. His speculation seems like it's very beneficial to the town. Wants us to discuss more on how to revive players than on speculating on the game, showing that he wants more game determining action to help the town. He suggested as his two others to revive were me and twito, just out of bias. If it wasn't for saying the bias part, I might be suspicious of him for saying twito simply because I saw no reason why he'd be a better revival candidate over other players. But since that was more of a "I don't have reasons to vote one person over the other, so I'll go for the ones I have a bias towards," negligable.


So in short:
Tamuz, lordy, and Mr. Cesar I want to hear more from.

theman, twito, yellowbounder, and m4yhem I'm against reviving, but I'm leaning towards town for m4yhem.


So for the remaining players, the order from most to least in how much I'd like them revived is:
Yos, CD, CDT, Thoth




Tamuz checked in, but I don't think it should take this long to start contributing, the thread isn't that long. But I'll wait for him to try to post something.

Lordy and Mr. Cesar haven't even checked in yet, I'd like to see prods on these two and to have them start posting.

[M4yhem]

Thoth- The thing is Yosarian can make sense and help the town with his posts just fine from where he is. We don’t need to revive him on those grounds.

Yos- You seem fairly certain that the scum will start killing. Are you just naturally pessimisstixc, or do you have insider knowledge. Again, no revived scum= no scum kills, which is why it’s important we take our time.

And you would be against the idea that we don’t listen to you once you’re alive, wouldn’t you, seeing as you’re the front runner. What I want to achieve through that is to avoid any living scum manipulating us into bringing in their buddies. Have you got a better idea on how to achieve that? Lurking scum in this setting would be much less of a threat then normal, I would have thought, since it seems like the most verbose people will be the ones getting revived. If you disagree, explain why.

Al_kohaulec- Does my idea give us a higher chance of reviving scum than normal? How so?

Crash- You’re lurking again. Don’t think that I won’t notice.

Twito- Yeah, I don’t see why just because we don’t know the setup we have to assume that any crazy combination is possible. I agree that if we had two cop claims we would treat both with caution.

I'm starting to wonder if he's intentionally giving the town bad stratagy advice,

Ditto. “Let’s ignore the voting record, townsfolk. It won’t tell us anything.”
And shrug; having bad ideas does not make me scum. It just means I have played fewer games/ thought less carefully about it/ am dumber than you.

IMO, there is too much speculation about the set-up of the game. What we really need to do is to talk about

how

we can find the right candidate to revive.

I agree with this completely. (Not the rest of your post though)
I still think we should look for scum in the normal way; see who defends who, who goes quiet when who is mentioned and so forth. At the moment, if voting to lynch, I would vote Yosarian. Yes, he’s very helpful, but that in itself can be a scumtell. I’m getting bad vibes from him. Anyone else?
On another note, we should try to work out who is town, from their reactions and so forth. Any suggestions?

Vote:TheManHimself

that "scum w/o good claims" are less likely to be revived

But this is true, surely? Unless the scum have safe claims, and even then we would be able to pick them apart.

My current preferred order: TheManHimself, Mehem, Twito, Lordy, MrCeaser, Crash.

And Al, if you really think I’m town, you should be in favour of reviving me.

Yos- Are you just a normal townie? If so, what makes you worth reviving over other normal townies, and over powerroles such as themanhimself? Sure, you can talk, but you can do that here; and I’m far more likely to listen to you if I’m not worrying all the time that you’re scum. So what have you got to offer us, eh?

[al_kohaulec]

And you would be against the idea that we don’t listen to you once you’re alive, wouldn’t you, seeing as you’re the front runner. What I want to achieve through that is to avoid any living scum manipulating us into bringing in their buddies. Have you got a better idea on how to achieve that? Lurking scum in this setting would be much less of a threat then normal, I would have thought, since it seems like the most verbose people will be the ones getting revived. If you disagree, explain why.

Al_kohaulec- Does my idea give us a higher chance of reviving scum than normal? How so?

Here's my reasoning:

If we listen too much to who's already revived, then I gave a previous scenario where if we revived Yos, and he was scum, he could lead us into reviving one or two of his partners. If he's town, he can speculate and probably help lead us to more town members.

If we don't listen too much to who's been revived, then we'll end up looking more at groups of players who are grouping together. Let's say we end up with approx. 3 groups of 4, and we pretty much revive one from each group. The last group would probably have 2 or 3 scum in it, and they'd try hard to get one of theirs revived.

Basically I'm saying that a revived townie has a better chance of leading us to more town than scum, but isn't guaranteed of course, but looking away from where he's leading us would point us in a different direction for each revival, and it's likely that one of those directions would lead to a scum revival. But I'd also be more in favor of getting stuck with one scum revival than making the mistake of reviving scum early and being led into another scum revival.

Ditto. “Let’s ignore the voting record, townsfolk. It won’t tell us anything.”
And shrug; having bad ideas does not make me scum. It just means I have played fewer games/ thought less carefully about it/ am dumber than you.

I hope you're being sarcastic, that's what I took it as at first, because we still need to look at voting records. It can tell us a lot. I think especially when we have 3 living players voting to revive players, that will tell us a lot on them later in the game.

And like he said, bad ideas doesn't always = scum. What constitutes an idea as bad is up for speculation and interpretation. I pointed out reasons why his suggestions could be good, but some of us here have decided that they'd be worse than they are good.

I still think we should look for scum in the normal way; see who defends who, who goes quiet when who is mentioned and so forth. At the moment, if voting to lynch, I would vote Yosarian. Yes, he’s very helpful, but that in itself can be a scumtell. I’m getting bad vibes from him. Anyone else?
On another note, we should try to work out who is town, from their reactions and so forth. Any suggestions?

Vote:TheManHimself

I agree with this still being a good old fashioned way of finding scum, and that we should use it. There's no reason to say it's a useless strategy that we can't use. The only game I can think of where that could apply is when SSB Reanacted the Civil War, and that didn't play out too well...

that "scum w/o good claims" are less likely to be revived

But this is true, surely? Unless the scum have safe claims, and even then we would be able to pick them apart.

Sure it's true, but that's also going to assume that we have a lot of townies claim as well, and I've already mentioned reasons why I don't want to see a massclaim. And this is a game where it'd be easy for scum to claim "Vig" and get revived based on that. We can't pick apart claims without night targets/results to analyze, and we can't do that until they're alive, which we want to avoid if they're scum. So this is not a good way to decide who to revive and not to revive IMO.

My current preferred order: TheManHimself, Mehem, Twito, Lordy, MrCeaser, Crash.

And Al, if you really think I’m town, you should be in favour of reviving me.

Why players like Lordy and MrCeaser? They haven't posted once, there's nothing to tell their alignment one way or another, and they're 4th and 5th on your lists? This doesn't make any sense to me.

And I am thinking your town, but I'm still trying to figure out for sure on you. I might change my mind, but we'll just have to see how things go. Until then I'm going to be reading and interpreting your posts, but I'm at least happy you are one of the more prominent posters here.

Yos- Are you just a normal townie? If so, what makes you worth reviving over other normal townies, and over powerroles such as themanhimself? Sure, you can talk, but you can do that here; and I’m far more likely to listen to you if I’m not worrying all the time that you’re scum. So what have you got to offer us, eh?

Now this is obvious rolefishing right here. There are reasons for not wanting to reveal all of our roles before we're revived. Our reasons for not wanting theman revived yet, even if he is protown, is that we don't want him to die right away. One thing we all seem to keep forgetting is that scum can't kill until a specified day unkown to us, but even then, that means that his blocking will only make things more difficult for us in the beginning of the game.

[Yosarian2]

Yos- You seem fairly certain that the scum will start killing. Are you just naturally pessimisstixc, or do you have insider knowledge. Again, no revived scum= no scum kills, which is why it’s important we take our time.

(shrug) Well, if we can manage to avoid reviving any of the scum while reviving 5 good guys in a row, then we would probably win on day 2, which would be great. However, I don't think that's especally likely; if there are 3 scum out of 12 people, then on average you would expect 1 out of every 4 people we revivie to be scum.

It would be nice to win without reviving any scum. However, I'm not counting on it. In my experence, flawless victories where the town never lynches the wrong person happen very rarely in mafia, and I'm not counting on it happening this game either.

And you would be against the idea that we don’t listen to you once you’re alive, wouldn’t you, seeing as you’re the front runner. What I want to achieve through that is to avoid any living scum manipulating us into bringing in their buddies. Have you got a better idea on how to achieve that? Lurking scum in this setting would be much less of a threat then normal, I would have thought, since it seems like the most verbose people will be the ones getting revived. If you disagree, explain why.

I don't see why you're especally worried about living scum manipulating us now in the pregame, when we can all vote. What doesn't make any sense to me is the idea that we should revive the person we think is most likely to be pro-town, and then completly ignore whatever that person says. If we were right, then we need to hear what that person has to say, and if we make a mistake and do revive a scum before day 1, then we need that person to keep talking so that he has a chance to slip up and give himself away, hopefully before we get to day 1 when he'd be 1/3 of the voting people in the town.

Twito- Yeah, I don’t see why just because we don’t know the setup we have to assume that any crazy combination is possible. I agree that if we had two cop claims we would treat both with caution.

This is a very different game then a normal mafia game, and I don't see any reason expect the pro-town roles the mod put in to be exactally what they'd be in a normal game.

I'm starting to wonder if he's intentionally giving the town bad stratagy advice,

Ditto. “Let’s ignore the voting record, townsfolk. It won’t tell us anything.”

Ok, now that is a complete misrepresentation of what I said, and that kind of misrepresentation IS a scum tell on your part.

What I said was:

That being said, "scum-hunting the normal way" won't be as simple as you make it sound; for one thing, voting records are not going to be easy to use at all.

I never said we should ignore the voting record. What I said was that voting records will be harder to use then normal, because in a normal game right after the lynch we know the alignment of the person we lynched, and can therefore try to use that fact to draw conclusions about the bandwagon. In this game, even after we elect someone, we still won't know their alignment right away, and we might never be 100% sure of that persons alignment. Now, when we do confirm someone as either town or scum (either through an investigation, or through death, or by some other method), then of course we'll go back and look at the voting record.

And shrug; having bad ideas does not make me scum. It just means I have played fewer games/ thought less carefully about it/ am dumber than you.

No, having bad ideas does not make you scum. However, all I have to go on at this point is the discussion we've had, so of course I'll tend to have a more pro-town feeling about people who are giving the town good advice, as opposed to people who are giving advice that, it seems to me, would hurt the town.

I agree with this completely. (Not the rest of your post though)
I still think we should look for scum in the normal way; see who defends who, who goes quiet when who is mentioned and so forth. At the moment, if voting to lynch, I would vote Yosarian. Yes, he’s very helpful, but that in itself can be a scumtell. I’m getting bad vibes from him.

...

Are you serious? Did you really just say that you think that me "being helpful" is a scumtell? What, good guys aren't supposed to try to figure out what stratagy the town should follow in order to win?

Yos- Are you just a normal townie? If so, what makes you worth reviving over other normal townies, and over powerroles such as themanhimself? Sure, you can talk, but you can do that here; and I’m far more likely to listen to you if I’m not worrying all the time that you’re scum. So what have you got to offer us, eh?

Fishing for my role is another scumtell. There is no way a pro-town person would want me to answer the question about "are you a normal towne".

I'm not sure what you're asking by "what else have you got to offer us". I'm certanly not going to reveal my role at this point, for reasons I've made clear. As to who should be revivied first, all I can say is that we want to revive people who we think are most likely to be pro-town based on their posts. After that, the next think I'm going to be considering is probably that we should try and pick people who seem most likely to make good decisions once they're alive; in the first day or two, their votes will be incredibly important to the town, as there will only be 3 or 4 people voting on those days, so we want to pick people who we think will make good decisions. (shrug) If you don't think that I'm pro-town, or you don't think I'll make good decisions, then vote for someone else.

[themanhimself]

Right now, Yos is seeming to make a lot of sense, and is really caring about the game, and what seems to me to be the towns best interest. Yellowbounder seems to be lurking a little bit, but not enough to eliminate him for revival. As to claiming, I don't see why we should revive someone that we don't think can help the town. Since there is no lynching, regular or weak townies can't do that as well as power-roles.

unvote
vote:Yosarian2

[CrashTextDummie]

All this theorizing about the set-up is making my head spin. I'll have to spend some dedicated time on figuring out how to best play this game personally, and then I'll share my thoughts.

In unrelated news, my vote on Yos has been pretty much shameless bandwagoning.

[Thoth]

If we don't listen too much to who's been revived, then we'll end up looking more at groups of players who are grouping together. Let's say we end up with approx. 3 groups of 4, and we pretty much revive one from each group. The last group would probably have 2 or 3 scum in it, and they'd try hard to get one of theirs revived.

If only it would be this easy. If the scum players are any good at all and we end up with 3 groups of 4 they are more likely to be spread over the groups than not. If not than unless the town sucks as well we should not be in for a difficult game.

vote:Yosarian2

He convinced me enough to vote for him. It's also unlikely I'll vote for Mayhem's revival ever.

[M4yhem]

Al_kohaulec:

Now this is obvious rolefishing right here.

It’s not rolefishing. Rolefishing is devious. That was a direct question.

Why players like Lordy and MrCeaser? They haven't posted once, there's nothing to tell their alignment one way or another, and they're 4th and 5th on your lists?

I figured that scum are more likely in this game to be vocal.

Are you serious? Did you really just say that you think that me "being helpful" is a scumtell? What, good guys aren't supposed to try to figure out what stratagy the town should follow in order to win?

Completely serious. Good scum will say obviously helpful and protown things, in order to get the towns confidence and avoid being lynched. Are you seriously claiming you’ve never used this strategy yourself in the past, as scum? Obviously the gg are supposed to figure out strategy, yes. That doesn’t mean every helpful player is good.

Fishing for my role is another scumtell. There is no way a pro-town person would want me to answer the question about "are you a normal townie".

Well I happen to know you’re 100% wrong here, but I guess I can’t expect you to take it on trust. Sigh, I guess I have to justfy myself now, don’t I?
I want more information about you. Simple as that. I find you almost impossible to read and every time you post I feel like I’m drowning in a sea of words. Plus, everyone is voting for you. That’s scary. This much consensus suggest the scum are happy with what’s happening.

I'm not sure what you're asking by "what else have you got to offer us".

You could make us promises, or explain what you intend to do with the power we are giving you. I’m not really sure. But you’ve been voting for yourself since you arrived. What make you think you are the best candidate for ascension?

If you don't think that I'm pro-town, or you don't think I'll make good decisions, then vote for someone else.

You lose points for observation. I already was, I am and I will be.

TheManHimself- If yellowbounder is lurking, how does that make him dangerous in this game?

Crash- I’m not sure if bandwaggoning is better or worse in this game. I’ll get back to you.

It's also unlikely I'll vote for Mayhem's revival ever.

Meh. Saying things that go against popular opinion does tend to make you unpopular. I’m not the best candidate for revival today anyway. So I’ll let this go for now.

The bits of you guy’s posts I haven’t quoted or responded to I either agree with or don’t care enough to argue about.

Now, scumhunting.
I currently have two theories on how the scum will be behaving:
1)Loud, in your face. A high risk-high reward strategy. They go all out to get themselves revived, make fake claims, etc. The risk is that people tend to notice louder players more. Only done by very stupid or bold scum.

Fos:TheManHimself, Yos

2)The waiting game: I can see more cunning devious scum supporting townies today, as an extension of the buddying up method, in the hope that once the townie they vote for is revived, that townie will then revive them out of gratitude.

Fos:Al_kohaulic

His last post gave me scummy vibes anyway. But my scumdar might be broken; the signal changes everyday.

Also, what the hell happened to caution? Some of our players haven’t even checked in yet, and Yos is already well on his way to being ‘born’.

Mod

please would you give us a votecount? Thank you.

And Yos, copy+paste your quote tags, please. You keep getting my name wrong, which irritates me. Thanks.

[ChannelDelibird]

Mod

please would you give us a votecount? Thank you.

I live to serve.

Vote Count:

Yosarian2- 6 (Yosarian2, al_kohaulec, chaotic_diablo, CrashTextDummie, themanhimself, Thoth)
themanhimself- 2 (yellowbounder, M4yhem)

Not voting (4): Mr. Cesar, Twito, Tamuz, lordy

7 to revive.

[Yosarian2]

Are you serious? Did you really just say that you think that me "being helpful" is a scumtell? What, good guys aren't supposed to try to figure out what stratagy the town should follow in order to win?

Completely serious. Good scum will say obviously helpful and protown things, in order to get the towns confidence and avoid being lynched. Are you seriously claiming you’ve never used this strategy yourself in the past, as scum? Obviously the gg are supposed to figure out strategy, yes. That doesn’t mean every helpful player is good.

I never said that "Every helpful player is good". However, when you say that something is a scumtell, you're saying that scum would be more likely to be helpful and say protown things then town does, which seems rather absurd to me. Of course, scum will sometimes give good advice to look pro-town, but that dosn't mean that giving good advice is a scumtell.

Well I happen to know you’re 100% wrong here, but I guess I can’t expect you to take it on trust. Sigh, I guess I have to justfy myself now, don’t I?
I want more information about you. Simple as that. I find you almost impossible to read and every time you post I feel like I’m drowning in a sea of words. Plus, everyone is voting for you. That’s scary. This much consensus suggest the scum are happy with what’s happening.

(shrug) I'm not really sure how I'd expect scum to vote in this game. If a good guy looks almost certain to be revived, I wouldn't be surprised to see scum jumping on the bandwagon in order to make themselves look better.

You could make us promises, or explain what you intend to do with the power we are giving you. I’m not really sure. But you’ve been voting for yourself since you arrived. What make you think you are the best candidate for ascension?

Well, of course if it was up to me, I would rather see someone I know to be pro-town (me) be revivied then someone I don't know to be pro-town. So of course I'm going to vote for myself so long as it looks like I have a decent shot at getting revived. I would expect anyone in this game to do the same, no matter what their role.

As for "promises" about what I'd do if I get picked; hrm. Well, I will say that on day 1, when there's only 3 people alive, I'll hold my vote back for quite a while, ideally until it seems like the whole town has reached a concencess, because when there's only 3 people alive, if one is scum, then all it would take would be one of the good guys to make an incorrect vote and the scum to follow it. It could be sort of a "lynch or lose" situation, in reverse. So I don't want to see any quick votes from the people we revive on day 1, and I certanly wouldn't make one.

TheManHimself- If yellowbounder is lurking, how does that make him dangerous in this game?

Eh...depending on how the game goes, and what win condition we end up playing for, we might end up having to revive all the good guys in order to win without accidently revivng a scum. If so, then in that end-game scenerio, having several lurkers in limbo who may or may not be good guys could be a serious hazard to the town.

We can't ignore lurkers. We can't lynch them either, though, so I guess we'll just have to ask for mod prods and replacements and such.

[al_kohaulec]

2)The waiting game: I can see more cunning devious scum supporting townies today, as an extension of the buddying up method, in the hope that once the townie they vote for is revived, that townie will then revive them out of gratitude.

Fos:Al_kohaulic

His last post gave me scummy vibes anyway. But my scumdar might be broken; the signal changes everyday.

The biggest problem I see with this argument is you are saying I'm scum who is reviving townies to gain their trust, so that then they'll revive me. This points at Yos being town, and me being scum. However, this whole time you have been pointing to Yos as your most likely scum suspect. This contradicts itself. Please explain.

Also, what the hell happened to caution? Some of our players haven’t even checked in yet, and Yos is already well on his way to being ‘born’.

And you say that those players are town because they haven't checked in yet, because scum would want to be vocal in this game. Yes, they would, but it doesn't mean that lurkers aren't scum.

Mod

, can we get prods on lordy and Mr. Cesar?

[ChannelDelibird]

lordy and Mr. Cesar are being prodded.

[chaotic_diablo]

m4yhem, the problem I'm seeing is that your using alot of WIFOM logic. Your assuming that

good

scum will act in a certain way. That isn't true. You can't just label someone as scum if they act accordingly to your assumptions. More plausible evidence is required rather than "that's how scum is going to think."

[M4yhem]

Yos- I assumed a scumtell was something scum did, so I guess we're quibbling about semantics really.

I suggest you start using that massive amount of brainpower to work out how scum would vote in this game. This is still a mafia game after all. We also need to work out how the townies will be voting. (Yes, I know how I vote but not everyone thinks like me, oddly enough.)

Your promise to be slow with your vote is interesting and I will be holding you to it.

While I agree with your endgame scenario regarding lurkers, I still think it's safe to ignore them for now, unlike in most other day one games. This setup rewards activity for both groups. I approve.

The biggest problem I see with this argument is you are saying I'm scum who is reviving townies to gain their trust, so that then they'll revive me. This points at Yos being town, and me being scum. However, this whole time you have been pointing to Yos as your most likely scum suspect. This contradicts itself. Please explain.

I never said I was 100% sure Yos was scum; I just wanted people to critically evaluate him. If you are scum, he could be your buddy, or a townie you want to impress. I am running through many possibiltys at the moment. Also, I reserve the right to change my mind, depending on the things people say. Getting locked into one train of thought is damaging to my scum-finding capabilities.

And you say that those players are town because they haven't checked in yet, because scum would want to be vocal in this game. Yes, they would, but it doesn't mean that lurkers aren't scum.

Everyone but me has the possibility of being scum. I just think that it is more likely that the lurkers are town. Noone is cleared until death. But we can still use probability to narrow down the scum to a few main suspects.

Chaotic_Diablo- What WIFOM? Seriously, I’m getting tired of that phrase.
Scum do act in certain predictable ways. That’s what the whole buissness of scumtells is about. They have goals they need to achieve and we know those goals, which means that we can make guesses as to how they will behave.

What’s the matter? Are you frightened that someone will notice that you fit the pattern I proposed?

Fos:Chaotic_Diablo

And what’s your alternative plan? Oh, I’m sorry, you didn’t make one, did you? NOT HELPFUL. What plausible evidence are you expecting anyway, in a game with no lynches and an unknown setup?

I don’t think I’m going to derail the Yosarian bandwagon, am I. So instead of sitting around whining about how you’ve got it all wrong and waiting for the prodees to show up, I’m going to

vote:Yosarian2

since this way I get to keep some control of what’s happening.

[CrashTextDummie]

Well, I guess Yos is living among the undead now. How's procedure? Do we vote for the next player to be revived right away?

[ChannelDelibird]

With that, Day 0.25 draws to a close.

Final Vote Count:

Yosarian2- 7 (Yosarian2, al_kohaulec, chaotic_diablo, CrashTextDummie, themanhimself, Thoth, M4yhem)
themanhimself- 1 (yellowbounder)

Not voting (4): Mr. Cesar, Twito, Tamuz, lordy

Yosarian2

is now alive.

Day 0.5

has now begun.

With 1 alive and 11 in limbo, it's 7 to revive. You may not vote for Yosarian2.

[Tamuz]

I'm a bit late, and some of this is slightly irrelevant right now because Yos is alived, but I think the best way is tod put people in camps, whther you would vote them alive or not. My camping so far works as follows

I wouldn't vote for
M4yhem
al_kohaulec
Yos 2

I could be conviced to vote for
CrashTextDummie
yellowbounder
Thoth
Twito
themanhimself
chaotic_diablo
lordy
Mr. César

I'd vote for:
Tamuz

Reasons, well the I could and I would sections are self-explanatory, and inactives just hurt scum, so I say let inactives be and live in limbo, they can't hurt the town there (nor can they help, but not hurting is more important.)

M4yhem: I've forgotten which post it was, but at one point he made my spikes bristle, I just wouldn't trust him. i think he is playing with someones best interest in hand, not his own.
Yos: This is a perfect game for him to be scum. The guy loves theorizes and he can do all the theorizing he wants which will give him a semblance of being a helpful townie, which is exactly what he has done and it has worked. I insist that we be extra careful who gets in next because I believe was may have a scum in the living already, a second would instantly end the game.
Al: among the over posting strategy that he is showing, his attitude towards M4yhem is also scummy. He waffles fiercly on M4yhem, and combining that with the way m4yhem rubs me wrong I see a strong negative connection betwixst the two.

[Yosarian2]

Yos: This is a perfect game for him to be scum. The guy loves theorizes and he can do all the theorizing he wants which will give him a semblance of being a helpful townie, which is exactly what he has done and it has worked. I insist that we be extra careful who gets in next because I believe was may have a scum in the living already, a second would instantly end the game.

(shrug) Yeah, I do love to theorize and plan statagy and such, especally on day 1 when there's not much else to talk about and especally in unusual setups like this. I don't see why that would make you suspect me, though, as I certanly do that kind of thing at least as much when I'm town, if not more so.

[chaotic_diablo]

Chaotic_Diablo- What WIFOM? Seriously, I’m getting tired of that phrase.
Scum do act in certain predictable ways. That’s what the whole buissness of scumtells is about. They have goals they need to achieve and we know those goals, which means that we can make guesses as to how they will behave.

What’s the matter? Are you frightened that someone will notice that you fit the pattern I proposed?

Fos:Chaotic_Diablo

And what’s your alternative plan? Oh, I’m sorry, you didn’t make one, did you? NOT HELPFUL. What plausible evidence are you expecting anyway, in a game with no lynches and an unknown setup?

You expect scum to act in a certain predictable way. However, if we were to apply a WIFOM counter argument that works, your argument is WIFOM. For instance, if you can believe that scum will be predictable, we can also believe that scum will expect this and not play that game. Essentially, WIFOM is useless.

Your not relying on scumtells so don't go off-topic. Your just evading the main point.

I don't need to have a plan to explain how your plan is stupid. However, intimidation is a scumtell. Aside from that, don't expect that we will get anywhere

without

plausible evidence. Most lynches in mafia should not be backed with illogical arguments.

Your response is seemingly overaggressive.

Tamuz is on the top of my list for revival.

[al_kohaulec]

For the second revival, I would probably lean towards CTD or Thoth. I am trusting C_D a bit, but because of how closely he seems to be attached to Yos, I'd be against it in case of the chance that they are both scum.

For the second one though, I'd like for our inactives to at least check in and post something before I place a vote.