Mini 343: Donnie Darko 0:0:0:0 Game Over

[AniX]

As for Anix being below Sentinel, I have seen his 11th thing work in chat games, I know this is not the same but I have some faith in the man. However, I think he needs to start getting involved as the game is fast approaching the "11th hour"

Yes, it does work and you must have faith. Excellent ideas. I have my clock all ready to go. When the alarm goes off, powers will be gained. Magic powers.

I can't help but disagree with Ixnay's statement that two dead townies is better than two alive but (in the opinions of some) inactive townie (abeit one is paying close attention and will leap in at a moment's notice if he feels the need to say something). Of course, one cannot call me an unbiased person on the issue of being nightkilled by the "vig.", but still, if If I was someone viewed as a very active participant, I would want two alive townies over two dead townies, especially when we don't know how many sks/mafia we have.

I mean, if we follow this "lynch and "vig." plan, if all those killed in the lynch today and the two kills tonight (if mafia kills) or possibly more depending on whether or not my pet theory of Vig. not nightkilling last night but going to kill the false claimer Emp works out, that would be a potential 3 townie deaths bringing town to 7(assuming there is no cross-killing going down) or 3 townie deaths and 1 SK (once again, assuming no crosskill and that my pet theory is working)

In the former senario, if there is two mafia we are are 5 townies(or 4 and SK) vs. 2 mafia and very close to having our asses handed to us, abeit not lynch or lose. If its 3 mafia, we are indeed in lynch or lose.

In the latter senario, tommorow 6 people would be alive. If there is 2 mafia, its lynch of lose for the town. If its 3 mafia, its just plain lose for the town.

I personally don't think we should be throwing kills around this late in the game over something as subjective as "This player doesn't participate as much as I wish him to." Once again, I'm incrediblely bias as to not wanting to die tonight, but even if I wasn't one of the people who is being offered for Emp to eat, Its still a very, very, very risky plan to go lurker-hunting.

[Yaw]

Vote Count:

Sentinel99 (3): MeMe, Save The Dragons, Ixnayonthehombre
Scalebane (2): Chess83, Sotty7
Chess83 (1): olio

Not Voting: AniX, Sentinel99, Scalebane, EmpTyger

6 to lynch

I did look through the one game Nonny modded in the past, and she never had to set a deadline there. Sorry I couldn't help you out with any more specific deadline lynch rules. Look at the bright side -- if this uptick in activity keeps up, I'll remove the deadline and you won't have to worry about it.

[Chess83]

Anix, can you at least give us a most scummy list for now? Something to help the town take a small step foward, I don't ask for much.

[AniX]

Let me see if I can access my awesome reserves. This is difficult due to all the crazy pet theories/ridicious notions I seem to be striken with, but here we go...everyone try to keep up.

Up in the Air

Sentinel99- Due to the fact he has disppeared alot, I have been unable to get a vibe from him at all. Could he be scum? Maybe Could he be lazy town? Once again, maybe. I'm the last one who should be casting accusation stones at Sentinel's glass house when I own the biggest glass mansion on the block.
EmpTyger- He is either vig. or SK/Mafia. This much is almost clearly certain. In order for him to be SK/Mafia, my pet theory of the game would come into play. For those who need reminding, the pet theory is that the real vig. is keeping his identity a secret and not counter-claiming the fake Vig(Emp) in order to kill him tonight, resulting in a cover-keeping but still effective removal of scum.
MeMe- MeMe seems to be a member of the majority in seemingly every debate, yet seems to do little more than echo the sentiments of others. When there is no definative party to join, she usually falls back to her old stand-by of "HEY, LOOK, ITS LURKERS!" However, since her tag itself speaks of his distrust of lurkers, I don't see it as a concrete reason to suspect her...but nor do I see any reason to have any trust in her either.
STD- I'm rereading his posts, looking for something to reveal him as trustable or town, but I'm seeing...nothing. I mean, everything he says is so...nothing. I don't even know how to explain this lack of substance. I imagine the best metaphor would be a placebo pill. He is still, he seems to be doing something but what that something is...nobody knows.

Trustable

Chess83- He strikes me, at this point, as a beneficial influence to the town so I'm going to trust him until such a point he is not.
AniX-How could you not trust Mr. 11th Hour?
Olio- While I would like to see him and Chess' feud come to an end, I think them fighting is more of them argueing semantics that now blown itself out of proportions, resulting in two otherwise trustable people to be at each other's throats.

Keep the Eyes peeled for...

Sotty7-A brief reread of Sotty's posts reads like the lie detector sheet. It starts off really calm with the softball issues/questions, but once we start hitting "Did you kill that man?" territory in this extended metaphor, she becomes the metaphorical "lie line" and is all over the place.
Scalebane- I can't really point you to the place where I could say "See here, this is scummy." but I can't point you towards a place where I go "See here, this is townie behavior." Normally, this would get him up in the air, but when I think the name Scalebane, the word "scummy" appears. Subliminal Messages? Post-Hypnotic Suggestion? Premature Power of the 11th Hour?

If I was voting right now, I would vote...

Ixnay-I am assuming, of course, Ixnay knew of the fact that using the "inactives" as a easy target would result in the town being in dire straights tommorow. As my earlier post showed, the town would be in rather large trouble when I (and, assumed in this situation Sentinel) turned up town and Day 3 began. If Ixnay was in a position to know both our alignments (say, if he was some sort of non-town character), such a "lynch or lose" situation would greatly benefit him.

[Ixnayonthehombre]

AniX, you seem to completely ignore the fact that I think he is Mafia. And you did seem to me pretty scummy also. But that was only because you openly lurked, and were opposed to participating. That being said, it's good that you're participating now.

[Sotty7]

Sotty, to sum up why I think you are scummy, you are not dealing with the pressure on you very well. That is why I am going to continue to watch the conversation you are having with people.

What am I doing that is so wrong in your eyes? I thought I've handled Emps questions pretty well actually. The reason I didn't post a list is because I'm feeling pretty lost on this game, it's been an interesting one, but a lot of people here are hard to read. If your desperate for a list here you go

Scalebane – See my reasons for voting him
Sentinel99 – Lurked like crazy, came back then just disappeared again. Like Anix said he could be town, could not be. It was pretty suspicious how he vanished again
MeMe – Just a real bad feeling surrounding Meme. Nothing concrete but I feel like she on the outside of all discussions sitting back
Save The Dragons – Hasn't really done much of anything in this game and I would really like to see him post more
AniX – Same as STD but has increased posting lately in the face of a deadline.
EmpTyger – He's either SK or vig. Time will tell
Chess – Made some solid points on replacing. The argument with Oilo seemed to get a little bit our of hand
Ixnayonthehombre – I don't really remember much of Ixnay either actually. Post more
Olio – Seems to be actively looking for scum. His initial vote switch did confuse me, but I can see his reasons even if I don't agree with them.
Sotty7

I'd say Meme, STD and Anix are all on the same level of scumminess in my eyes and the same is with Chess, Ixnay and Olio

[Chess83]

Bascially the reason is this, your defense against the play style difference (something that is rare, IMO) was bascially "oh well".

I feel I should mention that in my mind there is a large gap between the numbe 1 spot and the number 2 spot. I don't feel that Sotty and MeMe are very likely to be scum, but they have not proven them selves worthy of being declared townie in my mind, Sentinel is closer to town only because he has basically said/done nothing this game.

@Sotty and MeMe = Basically just don't screw up or look scummy and I won't be going after you guys, but I will be watching you a little more than the people at the very bottom of my list. I am way more concerned with STD/Scale (my number 1 spot) and to answer Scale's blurp about my rankings, yes the early day 2 conversation about chamber's wagon does is being factored into my placement. Yes it has been hashed over many times and it was dropped when Emp claimed responsibility for the nk.

I move for a replacement for Sentinel

It has been long enough for him to catch up since his last post.

[Chess83]

I believe you're scum. No matter what you say now, at one point you said that EmpTyger has info about Scalebane's scumminess, and if Scalebane turns out to be innocent, EmpTyger should be lynched because he mislead the town, unless he can convince us otherwise. I think it's convicting evidence that you're trying to rewrite the history.

I think you need to stop paraphrasing and start quoting. This line has been talked about and quoted enough for you to know this.

Emp, has said that he will reveal everything in due time. I trust that. Out of safty I ask that we not exceed 4 votes on Scalebane untill said information is out and Scale has a chance to defened. I say 4 because 6 lynches, anybody dumb enough to hammer before

possible

damning information is out must be an scum.

The word possible denotes the fact that the information may or may not damn Scalebane or even effect him directly. Again this has been discussed many times. If you don't see how that is please try to see it, if not then just say, "I don't see the possibility of Emp's information not directly effecting Scale in your statement." And we can go from there. I did not intend to say that Emp's information will, with all certainty, directly effect scalebane.

Sorry mate, you did claim that earlier, no matter how much you try to change that now, no matter how sorry you are and no matter if you think it was a mistake or not. I think it was a mistake on your part.

This ties into the above. Obviously you did not read the word POSSIBLY in my oiginal statement, if that is the case just say you were mistaken, I won't think you scummer for it, I doubt anyone will. There are a number of people who are saying it is tonwie on townie in this arguement already, I am one of them.

Emp, has said that he will reveal everything in due time. I trust that. Out of safty I ask that we not exceed 4 votes on Scalebane untill said information is out and Scale has a chance to defened. I say 4 because 6 lynches, anybody dumb enough to hammer before possible damning information is out must be an scum.

Defend against what? EmpTyger's name? EmpTyger's name as damning information?!?

Now this is just unfair. At this point Emp had not said that his name was bascially the only thing he had yet to reveal. I, like everyone else, did not know how much more information Emp had. I was trying to allow for the possibility that something may furter incriminate Scale. As I have also said before, Emp's name would add an element of validity to his claim. Thereby, allowing the town to trust him more.

Excuse my change of tone. I don't know why I changed it from "lynch him unless he can convince us otherwise" to "put some heat on him." Maybe, because the first post was on Mon Jul 31, 2006 1:41 pm and the second post was on Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:12 pm. That is 10 days, 1.5 weeks.

Sorry mate, in my opinion there's a good probability that you saw that EmpTyger won't be lynched after all and are now trying to soften up your earlier tone, so you won't seem so pushy about lynching him. I doubt you can convince me otherwise.

While there may be a good probability that I saw emp would not be lynched (don't think there was ever any probability in that) and that is the reason I changed my tone, there is a chance that I just changed it unknowingly. You seem to be making a huge deal about this little thing. The two statements in question are bascially the same. In essence, "If scale is innocent, go after emp; unless he can convince us otherwise."

Also, if it took me 10 days to realize that people were quasi-buying his claim, then I am an idiot. Furthermore, the only advantage scum would have about lynching the claimed vig is that they would avoid his night action. With what I am saying he would still have his night action tonight, so why would the scum not just kill him tonight instead of trying to lynch him and reveal themselves? It is illogical for scum to push for someone to be lynched the next day, espcially someone as dangerous to the scum as a vig.

[AniX]

AniX, you seem to completely ignore the fact that I think he is Mafia. And you did seem to me pretty scummy also. But that was only because you openly lurked, and were opposed to participating. That being said, it's good that you're participating now.

No, no, I considered the fact you could be misguided. Which is why I "hypotheically voted" you and didn't actually say "vote ixnay"

[Yaw]

I move for a replacement for Sentinel It has been long enough for him to catch up since his last post.

I agree. He hasn't picked up my prod, and hasn't posted anywhere since August 12.

Unfortunately, I don't know Sentinel99's role, so I can't pass it on to a new player. I'm going to put out the advertisement for a replacement, but I'm not capable of actually replacing anyone.

For this reason, I'm removing the deadline. It isn't reasonable to leave it on when the player being bandwagoned requires replacement and can't be replaced before the deadline hits.

Do keep the participation up, and expect a replacement as soon as Nonny gets back.

[Save The Dragons]

Unvote

Things I'd like to point out:

Another interpretation that just came to me: CK and Scalebane know each other in real life, though 1)

I have no idea if nonny's aware of that and 2) outside-of-game information

probably

wouldn't be used as

flavor text.

Meme tries to link Scalebane and CK's

One question...why would I kill of somebody who I said in thread could be scum? Especially when I was the only

person to vote them?

WIFOM?

I think I might know what might have happened with CK last night.

To me, this puts you in just as much danger as claiming the kill, while giving less information. Why?

Chess, at first your case against StD seemed solid, but your last post feels like you're grasping for straws.

Did you ever consider voting/FOSing me? And what made the solid case unsolid?

MeMe's vote:
Scalebane = random
Anix = not posting
chamber = hammmmma
Anix = compares to other games
Sentinal = not posting

Meme actively goes towards lurkers.

I must go now, but hopefully I will continue...

[MeMe]

Another interpretation that just came to me: CK and Scalebane know each other in real life, though 1)

I have no idea if nonny's aware of that and 2) outside-of-game information

probably

wouldn't be used as

flavor text.

Meme tries to link Scalebane and CK's

Tries to link their what?

[olio]

Did you ever consider voting/FOSing me? And what made the solid case unsolid?

Chess' first post accusing you sounded good enough to base vote on... until you started your defense.

Defend against what? EmpTyger's name? EmpTyger's name as damning information?!?

Now this is just unfair. At this point Emp had not said that his name was bascially the only thing he had yet to reveal. I, like everyone else, did not know how much more information Emp had.

Exactly. Emp hadn't mentioned what info he has to reveal and yet you - and you alone - rushed headlong into assumptions that it must be damnating information on Scalebane, formed plans how town should proceed and yet you "didn't have anything to add to discussion".

While there may be a good probability that I saw emp would not be lynched (don't think there was ever any probability in that) and that is the reason I changed my tone, there is a chance that I just changed it unknowingly. You seem to be making a huge deal about this little thing.

You know how people catch good scum players? From little things. Unknowingly changing your tone is even bigger tell, which makes me ask the question: "Why would he soften his tone unknowingly?". Basically, it's a slip you made without noticing at first, and I'm pretty sure you have your WIFOM -answer ready for this point.

It is illogical for scum to push for someone to be lynched the next day, espcially someone as dangerous to the scum as a vig.

WIFOM much lately?

The way I see it is that you saw Scalebane as an easy lynch target, based on EmpTyger's unrevealed info, as well as a good chance that EmpTyger would get lynched once Scalebane turns out to be pro-town. In your over-eagerness to get lynch, you didn't notice that EmpTyger never said his info was about Scalebane. You were blinded with this opportunity to hang two pro-townies. You can't change what you wrote, so you can't change my opinion on this one.

[olio]

And no, that was not unfair. This is a game of mafia.

[Ixnayonthehombre]

No, no, I considered the fact you could be misguided. Which is why I "hypotheically voted" you and didn't actually say "vote ixnay"

Ok, but just know that I think Sentinel is Mafia.
And everybody has been saying lately about MeMe only going after lurkers, being on the edges of each conversation. I know this is just more water under the bridge, but I for one, agree with that.

[Chess83]

*sign* Okay Olio, lets try this again....

Emp, has said that he will reveal everything in due time. I trust that. Out of safty I ask that we not exceed 4 votes on Scalebane untill said information is out and Scale has a chance to defened. I say 4 because 6 lynches, anybody dumb enough to hammer before

possible

damning information is out must be an scum.

PLEASE NOTE THE WORD

POSSIBLE

. For the love of everything holy, you think I am changing what I wrote I am not, I wrote POSSIBLE DAMNING INFORMATION, meaning the information maynot be damning or even have anything to do with scalebane. OPEN YOUR EYES! You are arguing in circles, you simply ingore what I am writing. This is starting to get really frustrating.

You know how people catch good scum players? From little things. Unknowingly changing your tone is even bigger tell, which makes me ask the question: "Why would he soften his tone unknowingly?". Basically, it's a slip you made without noticing at first, and I'm pretty sure you have your WIFOM -answer ready for this point.

Actually, I have no answers prepared, I read what you write and try to correct the misguided assumptions you are coming up with. As for the tone change thing, it seems that you, while mentioning the possibility of me being innocent in this sitution, you simple blind yourself to accepting the reality that I may in fact not be scum. Instead you are clawing and biting your way into me like a rabid cat.

It is illogical for scum to push for someone to be lynched the next day, espcially someone as dangerous to the scum as a vig.

WIFOM much lately?

Um, yeah this is nt WIFOM. Read it again...
If the scum were to wait untill tommrow to lynch the vig then they are taking a chance he will not be lynched, therefore the vig will get ANOTHER night action the following night. However, if the scum were to nk the vig tonight then he would only get tonights action. Obviously, the best senario is for the mafia to lynch the vig today to avoid his night action.

Does that help show why the scum pushing to lynch a claimed vig tommrow is illogical? It is dumb, too risky. If I did want to lynch him I would have waited for him to make a few small mistakes and then try to quitely blow them out of proportion, kinda like you are doing with me.

Please, for the sake of not distracting the town any further, unless you have something NEW to add, don't reply... just read the posts in question and try to see them from my viewpoint. I understand how you are reading these, but that is now how I ment them to be read. Sorry for the confusion.

[EmpTyger]

With the deadline rescinded, I am not going to place a vote until Sentinel is replaced. At the moment I feel I’m most suspicious of Chess and the lurkers, and it’s hard to evaluate without hearing from Sentinel.

I did have a thought on rereading that I’d like to pose. chamber hovered at lynch-1 for a bit. In retrospect, this seems kind of interesting, because he was obvious lynchbait. Why would it so hard, relatively speaking, for him to be lynched? I can brainstorm several hypotheses for this, but thought I’d pose publicly all the same.


STD:
Art for art’s sake?

<snip>

I think I might know what might have happened with CK last night.

To me, this puts you in just as much danger as claiming the kill, while giving less information. Why?<snip>

Stirring the pot while trying to leave it sufficiently ambiguous. Since Scalebane had already opened up the topic for discussion, any further talk on the subject (ie: by MeMe) could have been attributable to guilt or to responding innocently to his questioning. I hoped someone might react to that statement; antitowns would interpret it correctly, since they had knowledge of what happened, but protowns might have thought that I meant something about the roleblocking if not something else. If anything, I’d read MeMe as thinking I was hinting that CK roleblocked her, but she didn’t really bite, so it was moot.

I had always intended to claim the kill today, so that the town wouldn’t make mistaken assumptions about what had happened the previous night. The question was when.


Scalebane:
Still not sure about you, and Sotty makes a good point that you seem to be lying low once attention fell off.

<snip>I really want to give some snide remark about how I'll reply to EmpTyger's questions when he responds to half the town's, but the issue is that I can't honestly bring myself to think that lynching EmpTyger is the best move for today so I have little reason to try and argue for it.

I did not answer fully because I believed that by doing otherwise (a) I could still respond adequately and (b) I could adequately explain why I was holding back. Had that been insufficient, I would have replied fully. If you feel similarly, do similarly.
This isn’t just to deflect snide comments, but also so that my attitude is not mistaken for, say, chamber’s.


MeMe:
Still not completely sure what to make of you, but I happen to not like a lot of the rationale being used to suspect you.


Ixnay:

<snip>Getting rid of the two most inactive players would benefit us, even if they were town.<snip>

Protasis false. I will not be vigkilling a player for the sole purpose of culling the game; I will only vigkill for alignment. Which, admittedly, lurking can be an indicator of. I will not be vigkilling again unless my target has at least been given a chance to defend themself. (Whether they take that opportunity is another matter...)


Sotty:

<snip>I thought I've handled Emps questions pretty well actually.<snip>

Yeah, actually, you have. I hate having to doubt instincts, but you don’t need to claim yet on my account.
Also, minor correction: it’s not that I felt you “latched” onto Scalebane, but the opposite- that you were trying to distance yourself from him.


Chess:
Speaking of doubting my instincts, that innocent/innocent vibe I got from you/olio earlier has definitely passed- and not because of olio.

<snip>@Emp, you mean why I see MeMe as scummier than Sentinel and Anix?
It is nothing more than I feel MeMe is detracting more from the town in her posts, she rarely adds anythign constructive and hardly even posts, yet she is going after some other people who rarely post (granted they are flat out missing at this point) As for Anix being below Sentinel, I have seen his 11th thing work in chat games, I know this is not the same but I have some faith in the man. However, I think he needs to start getting involved as the game is fast approaching the "11th hour"

See, I don’t get that vibe from MeMe at all. Rather, I feel she has said quite a lot this game. But more importantly, accepting that rationale, I don’t see how you could rank AniX over Sentinel, and both under MeMe. There’s something about your comment to MeMe and Sotty in [281] that feels off, like it’s not being written from a townsperson searching for antitowns.

And try as you might to use WIFOM to weasel out of it (and yes- that *is* WIFOM: you are arguing that scum would do X, you are not doing X, therefore you are not scum) you absolutely did try to set up a lynch Scalebane-and-if-he’s-innocent-then lynch Tyger. Which, when you “edited for stress” in [290], you conveniently omitted:

*sign* Okay Olio, lets try this again....

Emp, has said that he will reveal everything in due time. I trust that. Out of safty I ask that we not exceed 4 votes on Scalebane untill said information is out and Scale has a chance to defened. I say 4 because 6 lynches, anybody dumb enough to hammer before

possible

damning information is out must be an scum.

<snip>

Okay, here is my two cents. I really have nothing to add to the discussion right now, but I want to say this. In my gut I think Emp is telling the truth. I posted earlier that I think it is Thok and Scalebane. Thank being said I am okay with getting rid of Scale before Thok.

unvote , VOTE: SCALEBANE

Emp, has said that he will reveal everything in due time. I trust that. Out of safty I ask that we not exceed 4 votes on Scalebane untill said information is out and Scale has a chance to defened. I say 4 because 6 lynches, anybody dumb enough to hammer before possible damning information is out must be an alien/scum whatever.

My final thought is this, if Scalebane comes up clean then we take out Emp, unless Emp can convince us otherwise. Those are my two cents.

AniX:
You are setting off so many redflags for me. Particularly the “trustable” section of [278]. The order feels off. How did you place *yourself* between Chess and olio when writing that post? And why is Chess so beneficial, considering that you seem to be disagreeing with most of his opinions?

[olio]

*sign* Okay Olio, lets try this again....

Emp, has said that he will reveal everything in due time. I trust that. Out of safty I ask that we not exceed 4 votes on Scalebane untill said information is out and Scale has a chance to defened. I say 4 because 6 lynches, anybody dumb enough to hammer before

possible

damning information is out must be an scum.

PLEASE NOTE THE WORD

POSSIBLE

. For the love of everything holy, you think I am changing what I wrote I am not, I wrote POSSIBLE DAMNING INFORMATION, meaning the information maynot be damning or even have anything to do with scalebane.

In my opinion, that Possible Damning Information in that sentence doesn't

automatically

add to the previous sentence where you only mention Said Information.

The point stands, you said nobody should put on the 5th vote until said information is out, thus you imply in that sentence that said information has something to do with Scalebane's guiltiness.

It is illogical for scum to push for someone to be lynched the next day, espcially someone as dangerous to the scum as a vig.

WIFOM much lately?

Um, yeah this is nt WIFOM. Read it again...

Simplified WIFOM then:
Scum would be stupid to do thing A. I did thing A, thus I'm not scum.

Like I said before,

you

can't change my stance against you. In my eyes you're just answering the way scum would also answer. You've already called me blind, so let it go.

[nonny]

I'm back guys, Thanks a bunch yaw!!

I'll work on getting you a replacment for sentinel later tonight but now i have work, and when i do deadlines the person with the most votes at deadline as long as it's over half of what it takes to get lynched will be lynched.

[Sotty7]

One question...why would I kill of somebody who I said in thread could be scum? Especially when I was the only

person to vote them?

WIFOM?

That was the point, even speculating everything about would be WIFOM. Why bring this up again when Emp has claimed the kill anyway?

And everybody has been saying lately about MeMe only going after lurkers, being on the edges of each conversation. I know this is just more water under the bridge, but I for one, agree with that.

What do you think about that? How do you think it reflects on her alignment. Would you like to see it change...what?

The continuation of the Olio/Chess argument is interesting. Chess seems to be ... really blowing up, but it could be seen as a frustrated townie or maybe Olio did catch him out. I'm a little weary after Chess seemed to imply I was a situation during my little debate with Emp, almost as if he was getting ready to place his vote there, but I could be reading too much into things.

Scale? Where'd you go again? Interesting to see you float off during a time when we had a deadline.

[Chess83]

Simplified WIFOM then:
Scum would be stupid to do thing A. I did thing A, thus I'm not scum.

Olio, I never claimed that I was not scum because I did something that was illogical for scum to do. I simply said that it was illogical for scum to do that. You were saying it was a scummy thing to do, I am saying it would be illogical for scum to do that. This is not a WIFOM argument, I am simply rejecting your premise that it is a logical action for scum to take. I actually gave a logical argument for my standpoint, what is yours?

Um, yeah this is nt WIFOM. Read it again...
If the scum were to wait untill tommrow to lynch the vig then they are taking a chance he will not be lynched, therefore the vig will get ANOTHER night action the following night. However, if the scum were to nk the vig tonight then he would only get tonights action. Obviously, the best senario is for the mafia to lynch the vig today to avoid his night action.

Does that help show why the scum pushing to lynch a claimed vig tommrow is illogical? It is dumb, too risky. If I did want to lynch him I would have waited for him to make a few small mistakes and then try to quitely blow them out of proportion, kinda like you are doing with me.

Also,

In my opinion, that Possible Damning Information in that sentence doesn't automatically add to the previous sentence where you only mention Said Information.

The point stands, you said nobody should put on the 5th vote until said information is out, thus you imply in that sentence that said information has something to do with Scalebane's guiltiness.

Well, that is your opinion and you are entitled to it, provided you allow for the possibility that I was NOT SAYING THAT. The fact remains that I allowed for the possibility of the information to not directly affect Scale.

As for me telling people not to drop the hammer on him and keep it to 4 votes, yes it does imply that the information may regard his guilt. However, I never wrote that the information DID regard his guilt or that it MUST regard his guilt, I always allowed for the POSSIBILITY that it did not regard his guilt.

Furthermore, if Scale is at lynch-1, he should claim (he is not right now for the record). If he claims, then Emp could reveal his information (name claim) then there would be no fear of the possibility of Scale taking his name, or if he did then Emp could bust him on it.

So we are clear, you opinion is not fact. Neither is my opinion or anyone elses. It is find, IMO, to state your opinion, but please do not state it in a factual way.

Basically your case is built on assumptions and opinions, no hard evidence. Also, this is the last I am going to type on this subject unless something new comes up because this is really dragging on way to much. My peace is spoken.

[Scalebane]

I'm not really floating off, is the thing. I'm right here. I would, however, like to be able to post when I have something that I feel that I could actually contribute instead of simply going "hay guys, I'm reading - will post later". I've been following this game religiously but am having real trouble making a whole lot of headway in any detailed analysis of any recent play. This game is filled with relatively experienced people who love verbose posts (MeMe excepted, obv. I don't think any of hers have gone over 10 lines.) and I'm not whining, but I do almost agree with what someone in this thread said earlier. What this game really needs is clifnotes.

[Scalebane]

I'm not really floating off, is the thing. I'm right here. I would, however, like to be able to post when I have something that I feel that I could actually contribute instead of simply going "hay guys, I'm reading - will post later". I've been following this game religiously but am having real trouble making a whole lot of headway in any detailed analysis of any recent play. This game is filled with relatively experienced people who love verbose posts (MeMe excepted, obv. I don't think any of hers have gone over 10 lines.) and I'm not whining, but I do almost agree with what someone in this thread said earlier. What this game really needs is clifnotes.

[MeMe]

Erm...check again, Scalebane. My posts aren't

unnecessarily

long -- but there've been more than a couple that have clocked in at a few paragraphs.

I'm keeping an amused eye on those who are eagerly nodding their heads in supportive agreement at the allegation that I'm not being helpful/am on the edges/detracts from the town. Sotty's last post is one of the more interesting along those lines.

[Ixnayonthehombre]

{about MeMe}What do you think about that? How do you think it reflects on her alignment. Would you like to see it change...what?

I think it is certainly suspicious, and I would like MeMe to be more involved in discussions. I don't automatically think she's Mafia, I just want her to discuss more.