Mini 269 - Game Over

[Graken]

I should clarify, "random" out of the people who haven't said anything yet.

[armlx]

Grah? Cop claim in the first 6 posts?

[Shamrock]

Hello!

Oookay, so we found out who our cop is already?

Even though it could be a mafia trick (though I doubt it, the guy seems to be just new) if there's a doc somewhere he should definitely protect him tonight.

[Matjoeman]

Thanks for explaining that to me, Halo. I wasn't sure if I was able to investigate before this game started or not. Why do some games allow you to investigate in the start and some not? I'm not sure I understand that too much yet. I'll just go with what you explained for now, but if you could explain that more later, I would appreciate it. I'll post to main thread after I read some more of the rules.

Oh, and yes, I did see that the game just started, thanks for all your help!!!! I look forward to playing on this site. It's a little different then I'm used to.

Let me guess... You meant to pm that to halo.

Vote: Dodgy

for being dodgy and not posting.

Grah? Cop claim in the first 6 posts?

First 2 if you count from when the day started.

[Poirot]

I wasn't sure if I was able to investigate before this game started or not. Why do some games allow you to investigate in the start and some not?

Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant.

2) He's Belgian.

Correction: Christie's Poirot was Belgian. I'm actually American, and a huge Christie fan. But that's a trifling.

Let me guess... You meant to pm that to halo.

Oookay, so we found out who our cop is already?

Well, let's start by going off what we know about Graken, especially the major note I see: he joined around when I did, about 2 weeks ago. I do have experience, but this could be a sign that he doesn't. My judgment is that this is either a clever Mafia trap or a play mistake. He seems too resigned about it.

Well, looks like my mistake will make me the sacrificial lamb night 1. That's fine, I don't mind being off'd first, I should have payed better attention.

Is it me or does he not care?

FOS Graken

just in case. But right now, there are no good targets for a vote.

[Dodgy]

Ok, it seems our cop has been outed through a mistaken post, so lets just hope the Doc doesn't make the same mistake, or we are all stuffed!

Vote: SpeedyKQ

for not having a role

[Poirot]

Oh, and yes, I did see that the game just started, thanks for all your help!!!! I look forward to playing on this site. It's a little different then I'm used to.

Wait. If he accidentally posted this in the thread, then he would have known that the game was afoot. So why does he say this?

I'll post to main thread after I read some more of the rules.

The only way I can see him making this mistake is having multiple windows open simultaneously. So how could he be telling Halo that he would post after sending the pm if he had already started posting? That seems suspicious. And look at this:

It's a little different then I'm used to.

This means that he has already played mafia before-clearly he can't be a novice at this, or else he wouldn't have had any experience and had nothing to be used to. The alternative is the already-stated mafia ruse, and I'm beginning to suspect that Graken may actually be mafia posing as Cop.

That's fine, I don't mind being off'd first

He's already assuming that he'll be killed Night 1. However, there had only been one reference to his mistake (Green Crayons). I think he either saw this in retrospect and knew immediately what a mistake it was (which would make it seem that he has more experience than he's letting on) or that he's bluffing Cop to float through as Mafia. Gutsy, for sure, but reasonable nonetheless.

[Matjoeman]

Poirot has a point; it would only really make sense if he was new to mafia and well forums in general.

FOS:Poirot

[Matjoeman]

EBWODP:That probably sounds pretty funny the way it is now.

UnFOS: Poirot

FOS:Graken

[Falcone]

Correction: Christie's Poirot was Belgian. I'm actually American, and a huge Christie fan. But that's a trifling.

I figured so much.

Confirm vote: Poirot
FOS: Matjoeman

For putting suspicion on Graken for his inadvertent cop claim. Seriously, do you really think a new player would do that intentionally if he was mafia? Also, if he is a fake cop, the real one would probably counterclaim, not to mention it's not so easy to keep up with a false cop claim for several days.

[Poirot]

Correction: Christie's Poirot was Belgian. I'm actually American, and a huge Christie fan. But that's a trifling.

I figured so much.

Confirm vote: Poirot
FOS: Matjoeman

For putting suspicion on Graken for his inadvertent cop claim. Seriously, do you really think a new player would do that intentionally if he was mafia? Also, if he is a fake cop, the real one would probably counterclaim, not to mention it's not so easy to keep up with a false cop claim for several days.

But if the fake cop counterclaims, they would be out in the open. It would actually make sense if I was the real cop and I was trying to undermine the fake-cop-claim.
The intention isn't to put much suspicion on Graken, but more to put information out. I felt that some subtleties in the posts he's made have gone unnoticed, and they could be signs of deception. Keep in mind that I only FOSed him-primarily for the reason that I think he isn't a major threat. I just wanted your attention.

Seriously, do you really think a new player would do that intentionally if he was mafia?

Going back to what I said (stupid BBCode), it's possible that he could have experience, especially because he says "it's a little different than I'm used to." In theory, he could just be trying to fake inability.

Just a thought, but it could be a bluff. While the mafia may be outnumbered, if they can force a mislynch, then get a kill on the real cop Night 1, it may be worth the sacrifice of one member if they can get momentum (and the cop). Besides, if they can turn the tide of the vote Day 2, their gambit paid off and they got the Cop.

[SpeedyKQ]

OK, I've received my role, and I think it makes sense for me to claim right away.

I am a tabloid reporter. Each night, I must invent a contrived, wacky role for another player. I expect there is some sort of non-sane coplike role who is intended to be mislead by my inventions. I want to tell you beforehand exactly what I am doing, so if anybody comes accross these roles, you will know they are fake.

Perhaps tonight we'll have a "Giant Rutabega That Shoots Lasers Out of Its Ass", a vigilante who has a 25% chance of killing 3 random players instead of the intended target.

[Falcone]

Uh, has Jeep written a new article that says it's actually advantageous for the town that townies claim on the first day, before everyone has checked in?

I don't think I really understand what you're claiming Speedy. As I interpret it, you can give a player another role at night. Isn't that terribly broken? You could give someone unlimited investigations, or make half the town un-nightkillable or something. Or is it that you can "write" a role for someone, and then when that person is investigated by a role cop, he gets to see his new wacky role instead of his real one? The latter seems more likely, and also more consistent with the flavour of a "paparazzo".

Also, could you explain please why you're claiming now? I don't really think that was a good idea, because now the scum know one other player who's not the doc. You could always have waited at least until the morning of Day 2, since for the moment, there's no risk that someone is going to be confused by your inventions.

Oh, and now that I think of it, Graken, is there any chance you are that role cop, i.e. do your investigations get you guilty/innocent or do you get the role of a player?

I just thought of something else... Maybe I'll expand on it once both of them have answered my questions.

Sorry for the stream-of-consciousness style of this post.

[Green Crayons]

I am a tabloid reporter. Each night, I must invent a contrived, wacky role for another player. I expect there is some sort of non-sane coplike role who is intended to be mislead by my inventions. I want to tell you beforehand exactly what I am doing, so if anybody comes accross these roles, you will know they are fake.

So, it sounds like your role could actually work against the town, as if there are any cops out there that get role-names, you would make their investigations worthless. I'm not saying that you're pro-mafia (though tabloid reporters

are

evil...), just that your role could possibly be detrimental to the town. However, it doesn't make sense to have a town role be harmful only to the town. Therefore, simple deduction means that there's probably a mafia investigator or somesuch that gets role names.

Or is it that you can "write" a role for someone, and then when that person is investigated by a role cop, he gets to see his new wacky role instead of his real one?

That was my first guess.

Or is it that you can "write" a role for someone, and then when that person is investigated by a role cop, he gets to see his new wacky role instead of his real one?

I agree that it was a bad idea to claim today, as now the mafia are two up on us - assuming neither of you are lying, they already know who one role is with investigations, and another role who simply screws with role-names (from what i gather). However, I just see this claim as a misjudgement in timing, not exactly suspicious.

Oh, and now that I think of it, Graken, is there any chance you are that role cop, i.e. do your investigations get you guilty/innocent or do you get the role of a player?

I'm actually against Graken answering this, as it simply gives the mafia more information as to his role. I'm comfortable in assuming that Graken is actually going to survive the first few nights intact (most probable doctor-target at this point, and mafia are looking for the doctor anyways, not the cop at the moment), so if he finds something interesting, he can then divulge a fuller discription of his role at that point. I see your point in asking, though, and personally, I wouldn't be surprised if there are two investigation roles in the town, one regular cop style and one that gleans role names. I could see the tabloid reporter as being added to provide some type of balance.

[Falcone]

Damn GC, I really wish you hadn't made that post. That's why I added the teaser about there being something more that I would talk about

after

getting some answers. As it is, you're probably right that Graken shouldn't say any more on his role for the moment. God, I want to say the absent players' faces when they see how our first day is going...

[Graken]

There was a reason I said that I would end up being the sacrificial lamb on Night 1 because of the mistake I made in posting. My PM states, along with the investigation ability, I have a drawback, I can not be protected at night. So I am actually wondering if there is another cop out there, I hope there is, cause if I am the only one, it would seem rather unfair for the town. I wanted to make sure that I got this information out here. It's pointless to protect me tonight. But nevertheless, I will do a random investigation and share the results if I make it to the next day.

[Graken]

Oh, and yes, I did see that the game just started, thanks for all your help!!!! I look forward to playing on this site. It's a little different then I'm used to.

Wait. If he accidentally posted this in the thread, then he would have known that the game was afoot. So why does he say this?

I am not sure what you're saying here exactly. I had this game set to my favorites in my browser so it brought me right to the game. I saw that the game had started. I then logged on, saw that I had a PM from Halo. I read it, and what I accidently posted was meant for Halo's reply.

I'll post to main thread after I read some more of the rules.

The only way I can see him making this mistake is having multiple windows open simultaneously. So how could he be telling Halo that he would post after sending the pm if he had already started posting? That seems suspicious.

I do the majority of my posting from work, so I do have multiple windows open. But this wasn't a case of having more then one window open for this site, what happened on here was that I copied the text while I was writing it. Before I sent the PM to Halo, I looked through some other games and came back to ours. I then pasted the text back but in the wrong place. I knew what I had done as soon as it happened, but I viewed it and noticed it was on the board and not a PM. I was browsing too much and wasn't paying attention.

And look at this:

It's a little different then I'm used to.

This means that he has already played mafia before-clearly he can't be a novice at this, or else he wouldn't have had any experience and had nothing to be used to. The alternative is the already-stated mafia ruse, and I'm beginning to suspect that Graken may actually be mafia posing as Cop.

To clarify, I have never played mafia before. When I stated that this is a little different then I am used to, I am refering to the interface of this bulletin board, not the game.

That's fine, I don't mind being off'd first

He's already assuming that he'll be killed Night 1. However, there had only been one reference to his mistake (Green Crayons). I think he either saw this in retrospect and knew immediately what a mistake it was (which would make it seem that he has more experience than he's letting on) or that he's bluffing Cop to float through as Mafia. Gutsy, for sure, but reasonable nonetheless.

I'd also like to clarify that I do make mistakes, but I am not an idiot. I realize that my role having been exposed is not a good strategy. Conversely, if I were mafia, I also know fake claiming cop day 1 is also poor strategy. And on top of this, I have also revealed my drawback which doesn't allow me to be protected.

That means two things, that I am really what I say I am and knew that I was doomed as soon as I realized my posting mistake, or that I am mafia and faking a cop claim. But, if I were mafia, why would I then reveal my drawback?

[SpeedyKQ]

Or is it that you can "write" a role for someone, and then when that person is investigated by a role cop, he gets to see his new wacky role instead of his real one? The latter seems more likely, and also more consistent with the flavour of a "paparazzo".

I write a role for somebody each night. I know it to be a fake, but I don't know anything else for sure. Seems by far most likely that it screws with a rolecop, but I can't really say.

However, it doesn't make sense to have a town role be harmful only to the town. Therefore, simple deduction means that there's probably a mafia investigator or somesuch that gets role names.

Could be, but pro-town players with anti-town roles are possible. Ever heard of a paranoid cop?

I agree that it was a bad idea to claim today [...] I just see this claim as a misjudgement in timing

OK, maybe it would have been better for me to claim tomorrow instead of today. But I stand by the idea that claiming early is correct.

[Adele]

My PM states, along with the investigation ability, I have a drawback, I can not be protected at night. So I am actually wondering if there is another cop out there

huh.
1) Why did it seem like a good idea to share that you can't be protected? If it's assumed you're being protected then the doc's protection isn't exactly "wasted" since whether you really are or not, the mafia would probably prefer to hit someone else. You're playing like you

want

to get night-killed.
BTW, is there any flavor explaning why you aren't protected? ta.
2) You expect another cop? So a counter-claim is anything but evidence against you?

Too weird. Not enough for a vote, considering the claim, but certainly

FOS: Graken

; that post was mighty odd.

[Green Crayons]

First of all, two points to Graken for oversharing on his role information, and now placing him in the useless bin for the town in regards to his role.

Could be, but pro-town players with anti-town roles are possible. Ever heard of a paranoid cop?

That's true, but the anti-town role abilities usually help balance the game mechanic so the town isn't too powerful. The non-normal cop roles are hardly ever given out as the only special ability, and they usually compliment a normal cop role elsewhere in the game. There's a lot of speculation going on here on my behalf, so I'm not going to continue in this line of thought until more solid answers show up - I just want it put on the table that I think a mafia-investigator may be part of the equation, so if he claims cop he might have an easier time of doing so (assuming he might be able to cite rolenames). Then again, I may be completely off base, which wouldn't be the first time.

Now that we know Graken is a cop without the ability of being protected, I'm more than confident that we have a second cop role, so I'm not

too

worried about our status in regards to helpful roles.

That's why I added the teaser about there being something more that I would talk about after getting some answers.

I wasn't sure if that's what you're hinting at, but if I came to that conclusion, I'm sure others did as well, including scum. I don't think I exactly harmed the line of questioning, especially considering Graken's unfortunate further explanation of his role sort of blew the questioning to pieces.


From this, though, I think it should be important to note that apparently role names are important alongside the "guilty/innocent" results.

[Poirot]

But, if I were mafia, why would I then reveal my drawback?

To seem plausible? I don't really know. It seems logical enough.

UnFOS Graken

.
Of course, now that it's out there, I guess we can really say that you're dead.

[Dodgy]

Ok people, PLEASE no more role claims!
At this rate, the scum will be able to figure out who our Doc is, if anyone else claims.
Its plain madness!!!
As for Graken, you've blown it mate! Revealing that you can't be protected night 1 is a suicidal thing to say, that is... if you are our cop?
I seriously suspect you are but you are saying some very sytange things and I'm starting to think you may be playing us.
I know many people that play on this site, who are VERY experienced, that scrap their details and create new names so that they will appear newbies when infact they arn't.
I think we all need to decide whether we take Graken at face value or whether we think he has made too many stupid mistakes now to be our real cop.
I'm undecided and am watching him closely but would like to hear other peoples views on him.

[Matjoeman]

UnFOS:Gracken

If this isn't a ploy then he dies tonight. If he doesn't we should consider lynching him.

If you are cop, BAAAAAAAAAAAD idea with the whole restriction claim.

[Green Crayons]

I think we all need to decide whether we take Graken at face value or whether we think he has made too many stupid mistakes now to be our real cop.

If he's not dead in a few nights time, that's when I'll think twice about his suspicion. As is, if he isn't lying, the mafia can't keep him alive when he could possibly oust one of them. He's the perfect target for scum, and the whole "keeping him alive and maybe the town will lynch him for us" gambit probably would do them more harm than good.

The latest lease on life I give him is tomorrow night, but that's just wishful thinking on my behalf.

[Dodgy]

Ok, thats good enough for me.