Mafiascum.net

Did you or did you not plant "I'm a newbie" comments around the site for one game?

[edit to remove "this", which apparently isn't appropriate]

As the game's in progress, is this appropriate?

I did not! Seriously. I would not let happenings in games taint non-game areas of the site. Like I said before, it was that game that made me think about the issue. It was that game that prompted me to look at the site in a different perspective. I did not post anything outside of the thread in hopes to gain favor in any particular game!

OK - your edit made me laugh, d8P.

Good call, MeMe. My bad. Thought it would be ok cos he's dead. Can someone lock this until it apppropriate, please?

*shrug*

I've given my answer. This is why the idea bothered me, now I have to defend things I said outside of the game.

As long as we keep it general, we might as well discuss.

If player F decides intentionally to post things in other threads that can help him in his attempted cover in thread D - is that wrong or not?

I know this was not the case with Fishbulb, but would it be seen as wrong? I'm not sure what I think about this, to be honest.

It's hard to say what is wrong. To me, it would be unethical, but so are a lot of things that people do in everyday life. However, rather than join in or debase those who partake in these actions, I retain my ethics and just respect that they have their own. To say it is wrong is probably not for any one person to say.

So, in this particular instance, I wouldn't say it is wrong for anyone to do anything (unless it is covered in the rules) as long as they are prepared for any hurt feelings that might come from those who believe it is unethical.

Buh?

What are you guys talking about?

On a related note, I agree that discussions that might be relevant to a particular game that you are (or were!) involved in should be limited to the thread in which the game is being played, until said game is over.

[unethical plug]I'm a great player and you shouldn't lynch me in any games I'm playing in right now[/up]

No, seriously.

Oops, wrong thread.

Well, in my opinion -- everything's fair in mafia (much more so than in love and war). It's impossible not to metagame -- and equally impossible to ignore information and character traits of a player, even if what you know (or think you know) was revealed outside of an actual game.

For example -- if I read a discussion comment by George in which he says that nothing makes him happier than being a serial killer...and then George seems particularly pumped and excited on day one of a game, I might make a little note that it's possible he's the SK. Or if I know that ModGuy loathes random roles, anyone claiming to be a random role in one of ModGuy's games would become automatically suspect.

And I'm overly analytical and rarely forget anything, so I'm compelled to defend this all-encompassing style of play. (Yeah, yeah -- if I claim to have "forgotten" something in a game you're welcome to use this statement against me).

That's cool, but what if a player goes out of thread a game to plant these ideas elsewhere on the board, perhaps for only some to see, for instance?

I agree with all of that, MeMe, but that's the opposite of the question at hand. The difference being that someone planted false evidence outside of the game... Like the guy that claims a random role then goes into another thread and makes a show to complain about random roles.

We do need to remember that most mods have it in their rules not to discuss an ongoing game in other threads -- and, being a rule Nazi, I tend to shut down or request an edit any time I see any obvious flouting of that rule. If it's a player's to play a particular game somewhere besides the actual thread...they're cheating, no question. But, we talk here and sometimes things slip out that can be used as "evidence" in a game -- and I'm, obviously, all for using that kind of stuff to help your particular side win. Sometimes, it backfires -- here's an example:

I was reading a game on an entirely different board (not mafiascum) and happened to see a comment from a player (let's call him Andy) who was also participating in a game on this board in which I was also a player. On this board, Andy was lurking like a maniac -- I mean, 10 days plus -- and I was getting increasingly frustrated. On the other board, her comment was something like "lynch worthless lurkers -- aieeeeee!" and he led a bandwagon for someone who had been silent for about two real life days. I took that information and successfully got him lynched. He turned out to be one of the more powerful pro-town roles. Damn. Still, I stand by the fact that it was logical play on my part to use that against him in the game. Too bad I was wrong.

Still -- lynch worthless lurkers -- aieeeeee!

[edit]Just thought I'd mention that, in my little example above, I was also pro-town. Probably figured that out without this little addendum, dincha?[/edit]

MeMe wrote:Still -- lynch worthless lurkers -- aieeeeee!

~ has a disturbing mental image of MeMe in the grips of a Xena moment ~

Wait... that's not a thing, that's a thing!

I've been wondering about this very issue for some time now. What's always gotten to me about mafia discussion in general is that, supposedly, heuristics for locating mafia become useless once they're known. If this is the case, then one should never discuss them with others, as said discussion will make the game that much harder. On the other hand one could take advantage of this principle to spread misinformation in the discussion forum to ones own advantage("Cuban Smoker said he always knows scum because they never mention their favorite food on the first day, so I'll tell everyone how much I love liverwurst and he'll never suspect"). What's bad about this idea, to me, is that it extends gameplay into neutral zones, which would ruin the friendly atmosphere of this site.

To some extent it's inevitable, since you'll look back (mentally) on people's past play and posts to determine their innocence in the current game, as well as things they've mentioned idly about mafia strategies they like/dislike, etc. It's all going to build up their profile.

I don't think there's a clear line. I think the best we can hope for is to avoid deliberately using "neutral ground" as you aptly put it to tactical advantage. A single game should stay in a single thread, even if you're drawing on older games and other threads for info. It all goes pear-shaped when there's meta-gaming and subtle clue-dropping in other threads. So although you might post something in a mafia discussion thread which makes people stop and think, as long as you're not conciously saying anything which you think could have an impact on your current games, you're OK.

Well said.

Yes very well put Dasquian.
Other good ethics gages would be:

"Is this going to ruin the fun for me?, for someone else?"
"When this game is over what are my freinds (that might or might not also be in this game) going to think of what I have done?"
The meta-golden rule "What if everyone did this?"

Examples and Answers are left to each player as an exercise.

I have been confronted with situations like this several times and have/am suspecting a certain person of doing this right now (Why do these discussion often coincide....)

Anyway, I agree with Dasquian. There is no clear line, and as long as what you are doing ties in with your strategy for that game, how it affects other games is not an issue as far as I'm concerned. Almost all's fair in mafia.

Can't give an example right now, I'll try think of an appropriate example that isn't the one that I suspect has happened.

Wacky wrote:Anyway, I agree with Dasquian. There is no clear line, and as long as what you are doing ties in with your strategy for that game, how it affects other games is not an issue as far as I'm concerned. Almost all's fair in mafia.

Er, that's not what I said at all. Or meant, at least

My take is that although you will always use external information to judge people, you shouldn't deliberately plant external information to be judged by, or even participate in discussions where people will read into your posts about your current games.

I'm saying: if you're playing a game, don't play it anywhere except in the game thread (and PMing for mafias, masons, etc).

Oh, sorry Dasquian. On the other hand, if you have committed to a playing dumb style like... the alleged behaviour of Electra from Time Travel mafia, you wouldn't want to post a complete list of scum with proof by the Twilight of Day 1 in another game.