Lying about external circumstances

[Alexander]

A game of mafia is all about lying and ferreting out liars, this much is clear. But, there is one type of lie in the game that I find unappropriate: lying about events and circumstances external to the game. As an example, I'd like to bring the recently completed Newbie 165 game.
On Day 3, in a Lynch-or-Lose situation, one of the players announced, with much bravado that "this is going to end now, one way or the other", because "he's not going to have Internet access for a while". With that, he placed a vote on another player and left.
But, as the game progressed, the third player (now in a kingmaker position) was reluctant to make a choice, and it turned out that the first player did have Internet access after all - he came back to the thread periodically to post and check up on the progress. (btw, this shyftiness eventually got him lynched, but that's beside the point)

Now, maybe it's just me, but I don't appreciate this type of lying.

"I am the cop and last night I investigated xyz"

- this is fine, because it's in-game.

"I placed a third vote on abc because I wanted to force a claim, I didn't realize defghij will rush and lynch him"

- also in-game, perfectly acceptable.

"My mommy is sick and I have no time to post, please don't lynch me"

- should be frowned upon (although, practically speaking, of course cannot be forbidden).

Anyway, that's my opinion, please discuss. What do YOU think - is lying about out-of-game events an acceptable weapon in the arsenal of a mafia player or something less-than-completely-acceptable?

[Einsteinmonkey]

I was contemplating making this topic a while ago, but I wasn't sure if it was relevant to the game I was playing.

Anyhow, I don't think lying about out-of-game circumstances is really acceptable. The mafia don't lurk the town to death.

[Aelyn]

I don't see the point, frankly. It's so much

easier

to run the town by manipulating them than by hoping they don't see you.

Besides, if you have to lie like that, you're taking the game the wrong way. I consider lies acceptable if you can see them making flavour sense (can you imagine a guy saying "I'm ill" with a lynch mob around then coming out of his room every hour, saying "oh yeah, I am still ill. Cough cough. Back to bed now" and getting away with it?

[Thesp]

I don't see the point, frankly. It's so much

easier

to run the town by manipulating them than by hoping they don't see you.

Besides, if you have to lie like that, you're taking the game the wrong way. I consider lies acceptable if you can see them making flavour sense (can you imagine a guy saying "I'm ill" with a lynch mob around then coming out of his room every hour, saying "oh yeah, I am still ill. Cough cough. Back to bed now" and getting away with it?

Elect Aelyn for Prez!

This man speaks for me!

[Thoth]

I have no problems with lying about external circumstances. To me it's just another part of the game (and I've done it in the past).

[halo freak]

I hate people lying about external circumstances. It is basically cheating and ruins the game.

[Talitha]

I'm with Thoth... I fully expect that anything anyone says in the game thread may not in fact be true, and I have no problem with that.

I try not to lie about external stuff but that is a personal choice, and it's mainly so I dont trip myself up when I'm talking to people outside of the game thread. (Eg, it would be awful if I had to pretend to Phoebus on chat that I had the flu because I had said I did in a game we were both in).

[Cadmium]

I'm with Thoth and Tally.

I don't understand why people would think it's a no-go. I'm sure that if they get the chance, they'll use that same lie to prove that person is scum. That should not be allowed either then. It's both or none.

[Talitha]

Upon pondering it further, I decided I would get annoyed if somebody lied about (for example) their grandmother dying. If the lie is likely to draw excessive sympathy or bring up bad feelings for others, it might not be acceptable....

[Cadmium]

Well, it's not like they're going to get away with that more than twice .

[Thoth]

Upon pondering it further, I decided I would get annoyed if somebody lied about (for example) their grandmother dying. If the lie is likely to draw excessive sympathy or bring up bad feelings for others, it might not be acceptable....

I agree that this would be taking it a bit too far.

[Puzzle]

How about the mother-in-law ?

[Phoebus]

If your mother-in-law dies one two often, you're taking the lone wolf role far beyond the call of duty.

[Mr. Flay]

I think it's ill-advised unless that's the only thread you're posting in (see Talitha's comment about getting tripped up elsewhere by it), but there's no reason/way to "ban" it. Much like the Personal Attacks thread, anything (within reason) that we do to artificially limit the possible responses cheapens the game.

I'm always invisible on the forum, whether I'm scum or town at the time, because I prefer to keep RL separate from my games. But that's just me (and also, I come to browse ALL the time, and only post sometimes).

[VisMaior]

I always disclose external reasons from my reasoning, so it does not influence my choice. Ergo, I dont really care if the person is lying.

[Puzzle]

I think all lies should be allowed. Anyway, nobody has ever hesitated to lynch me when I was saying it would make me cry, so such tactics don't work with you, band of heartless Puzzle-lynchers.

*Goes off crying in foetal position, sucking his thumb in the dark recess of a humid cave*

[Mr Stoofer]

I think all "external" lies should be banned, and this rule should be enforced by a team (lead by MeMe, of course) who would go to people's houses to check whether they really are sick/having connection problems/called away on business/had arm eaten by Ebola virus.

[Seol]

As far as I'm concerned, anything that doesn't break the rules is fair game to say in a game. Lying, obviously, isn't against those rules. Whilst it's arguable that lying about personal circumstances makes you a jerk, more importantly, it's a difficult lie to maintain. Certainly you won't get away with it more than once or twice. I wouldn't do it, simply because I have two siblings on the site and use the same identity on other sites I'm reasonably active on, so it's easy to catch me in a lie.

I have on more than one occasion checked other people's posting records not only on Scum but also other sites to try and find evidence they're lurking as opposed to simply not there. This is not a gentlemanly sport, and any tactic you can use to improve your game is legitimate - whilst as Aelyn said, participation is usually more effective, there's a time and place for everything.

Everything is a tactic - for example, I'm only ever nice to people because it predisposes them to like me, and therefore want to think me innocent, not because I'm actually nice - and all's fair in love and war - but, equally, everything has its consequences. This applies to all walks of life, not just Mafia.

[Seol]

I think all "external" lies should be banned, and this rule should be enforced by a team (lead by MeMe, of course) who would go to people's houses to check whether they really are sick/having connection problems/called away on business/had arm eaten by Ebola virus.

Meme, I think you ought to know I have contracted Ebola and will be unable to post for approximately until I've won all my games through lurking. Now I'm off to post in other threads.

I'll have the Scrabble board and the cheese and wine set up ready for your arrival. 8)

[Alexander]

Thanks for your responses, people!

After carefully going through your feedback, I decided to change my mind. I now consider out-of-game-lying a legitimate weapon in the arsenal of the mafia scum... all is fair in love and war, and remember, it's only cheating if you get caught!

[Seol]

Thanks for your responses, people!

After carefully going through your feedback, I decided to change my mind. I now consider out-of-game-lying a legitimate weapon in the arsenal of the mafia scum... all is fair in love and war, and remember, it's only cheating if you get caught!

Also remember these lessons can be applied to real life too!

[Commodore Amazing]

If someone says, "hey, i gotta stop posting my computer exploded, ill

vote: Alexander

and hope we win. gl town," shouldn't the town be able to request a replacement? Then the mod would have to either confirm that the person is a liar, or the person would have to bow out of the game and hopethat the replacement could argue his way out of it?

[Mr Stoofer]

lying about personal circumstances makes you a jerk

QFT

[Seol]

lying about personal circumstances makes you a jerk

QFT

I'd like to discuss this further with you, Stoof, but my grandma just died.

[Cadmium]

You only got one of these left now, Seol. I'm watching you .