Night One Investigations.

[MeMe]

I'm one of the "old guard" who can be almost sure of being investigated Night 1 (there are some exceptions, depending on whether other senior players are present). If I open up a scum role without investigation immunity -- I pretty much know I'm in for a battle Day 1 and that, if I survive, it's a miracle. There's also the kind of unfair knowledge that, when I'm innocent, there's probably at least one other player who believes I'm either innocent or investigation immune.

So, I'm beginning to think that it might be more interesting if Night 1 Cop investigations were randomly determined by the moderator. Is this a completely stupid idea? I don't know if it makes sense for other night action roles to be randomly determined since there is an element of trying to figure out who's likely to be protected when deciding a kill and who's likely to be targeted when deciding who to protect. But for straight-up cops -- doesn't random seem better?

[Iammars]

Yeah, that sounds like what I do. My N1 investigations are in this order:

Vesuvan
Seol
Dragon Pheonix
Thesp
MeMe
Mr. Flay
Commodore Amazing
peacebringer
Jentsu


Me thinks random N1 investigations sound good, though I will probably not be in that situation (My D1 antics give me away )

[rajrhcpfreak]

ehh. sounds like a cool idea.

wouldnt have worked in my game right now.. but i may try it in Freaktown 2.

[HezLucky]

On a side note, if you are cop and investigate scum Day 1 and find it. When should you come out?

[rajrhcpfreak]

if it was me, i would come straight out. i dont live long in the first place. if i had a longer life in mafia games i would wait until i had an innocent and a gulity to prove my sanity.

[Yaw]

Hez -- I wouldn't. First of all, you need to at least wait until you have some idea of your sanity, which won't be until you get a different result. Second, I think you're just painting a big target on your back as an outed cop. By all means, try to get the person lynched. But there are other ways to do it without coming out. If they're scum, they'll probably slip up somewhere, and since you know they're scum and will be watching closely, you're more likely to catch it.

MeMe -- I sympathize with the difficulty -- I recently got screwed over in Human Body Mafia by having

three

cops investigate me night 1! I was actually going to ask at some point how on earth to get out of that sort of situation. It's pretty clear that players who are perceived to be good scum get the IS treatment, and it would be nice to see something done so that good players aren't given an early death sentence with a scum role. I'm not sure I like the idea of increasing randomness, nor do I think it solves the problem. You're just going to get investigated night 2.

[rajrhcpfreak]

If they're scum, they'll probably slip up somewhere, and since you know they're scum and will be watching closely, you're more likely to catch it.

for me i usualy target good players... so they dont screw up. or if they do they get themselfs out of that situation very quickly.

[MeMe]

I'm not sure I like the idea of increasing randomness, nor do I think it solves the problem. You're just going to get investigated night 2.

I don't think this "increases randomness" as the roles are randomly assigned in the first place and nothing's occurred gamewise to give any one player a bigger chance of being scum.

And you're wrong about "just going to get investigated night 2" -- a fact that is easily confirmed by checking my record of rarely being investigated in newbie games when I'm innocent. I expect that most players with this "auto-investigated" problem find this to be true -- once there's been an entire day for the cop to determine who

needs

to be checked, the issue of seniority is beside the point.

[Yaw]

I think I was getting muddled in referring to you and IS back there. In IS's case, he'd get investigated night 2. No questions asked. With non-IS people, I'll admit it would vary based on what happened day 1 and who else is in the game.

It sort of leads into a larger question, though. The only way IS survives a game as scum is if he's investigation-immune (or there aren't any cops). While we all metagame IS in this way, it's an extreme symptom of the difficulty you're describing. Much as it would be nice to see him get a fair shake as scum, good play requires playing to win using the tools at your disposal, which means IS gets investigated early and often in ways that a mod-investigated night 1 wouldn't solve.

I guess what I'm saying is that if we're going to try to come up with options to deal with this issue, they may as well deal with the worst-case scenario.

[inHimshallibe]

Hey, I'm playing the world's smallest violin...

Joking! Yes, it's rough to be investigated early, and I think I can feel your pain. But, I don't know if this'll ever be universally implemented. When I'm a cop, I generally play with gentlemen's rules and don't target specific people on Night 1 because they might beat me as scum - I mean, how will I ever be able to catch them when I'm not the cop if investigations become my crutch? I'm all for gamesmanship.

But once again, I'm not sure there's really a universal solution for this plight. In the games I run, I'll probably allow free cop movements on Night 1.

[Mastermind of Sin]

It's pretty clear that players who are perceived to be good scum get the IS treatment

hmm, i hope no one made the mistake of thinking I'm good scum...that might explain why they like killing me so much... ¬_¬

[Mastermind of Sin]

Yeah, that sounds like what I do. My N1 investigations are in this order:

Vesuvan
Seol
Dragon Pheonix
Thesp
MeMe
Mr. Flay
Commodore Amazing
peacebringer
Jentsu


Me thinks random N1 investigations sound good, though I will probably not be in that situation (My D1 antics give me away )

i'm so glad I'm not on that list

[rolandofthewhite]

I usually target MeMe if I'm a cop, but I feel bad now...

[MeMe]

I'm not looking for sympathy -- when I'm a cop, I don't do the "random" thing either. I mean, if Talitha's in the mix I'm checking her.

I was just throwing out an idea to make the game more fun for everyone. I'm still pretty convinced this could help. Another option is, of course, starting in the day phase....but I

hate

that.

[LoudmouthLee]

I, too, am part of the N1 investigation club. "LML's hard to read, let's investiagte him!"

Bah.

[Wacky]

Why investigate MeMe (or Talitha) when she has a large chance of being killed night 1 or night 2 anyway?

[rolandofthewhite]

To test one's sanity?

[rajrhcpfreak]

Why investigate MeMe (or Talitha) when she has a large chance of being killed night 1 or night 2 anyway?

thats waht i say. but it just has me investigating roland or inhim or MOS.

[Dragon Phoenix]

Dragon Pheonix

Vote Iammars

[Narninian]

I kinda agree with the logic behind. Only flaw I see is that its part of the mind game that other roles have to abide by (Mafia -- should I kill and experienced player or will they be protected? Doctor -- Who is the mafia most likely to go after? Cop -- What players will be hardest to tell if they are scum?) There are more factors than I just gave, but most roles, its in their best interest to be influenced by the skill/experience of the players night 1.

[inHimshallibe]

Why investigate MeMe (or Talitha) when she has a large chance of being killed night 1 or night 2 anyway?

thats waht i say. but it just has me investigating roland or inhim or MOS.

When have you ever investigated me? Chat, perhaps.

I'll just get you lynched if you do such things .

[rajrhcpfreak]

i dont like playing with people who can read me so well.

[inHimshallibe]

[SinisterOverlord]

The more I think about it, the more I'm leaning towards making my future games start with day rather than night. I mean... it really sucks to be killed night 1 always, especially if you've been looking forward to the game. And it also would really help with this problem, give the usual suspects at least a chance to do whatever before being nailed, or whatever.

[HezLucky]

I, too, am part of the N1 investigation club. "LML's hard to read, let's investiagte him!"

Bah.

It's justified after what I saw yesterday.