Mafia Day Talking

[BrianMcQueso]

Personally, I'm a big fan of allowing my scum groups to speak with each other privately during the day. In newbie games, it allows a more experienced mafioso to counsel their teammate (I assign roles randomly, but that's almost always how it turns out with 3 exp/4 new). In other games, I feel it allows the Mafia to play better and not lose because of silly play mistakes, making the town work for their good lynches.

While it does hurt the town (although I tend to let masonries talk during the day as well), is the benefit of allowing mafia talk during day really that significant an advantage? I'm aware that it doesn't seem to be very flavorful--if you're whispering a lot to the sleasy looking guy next to you, somebody in the town sure would notice. Still, I seem to be one of the few mods that does this, so is there something major I'm missing out on? Or is it just sticking with tradition?

[VisMaior]

Its an advantage for the mafia to coordinate their actions. I would not (and will not) allow it.

[BrianMcQueso]

Yes, it is an advantage. But so is, let's say, a Mafia Roleblocker or Godfather Investigation Immunity™. What makes daytalking so different?

I would not (and will not) allow it.

Why?

[VisMaior]

Well, it gives too much of a power. Setting up claim-counterclaims, or framing each other, or jumping on a vote, or whatnot. I think the strategy should be discussed at night and then mafiosi should execute the strategy. Its much more intriguing that way. Well, if you want to allow it, not much of a problem, really, its just that I would not. Personal preference.

[Dragon Phoenix]

You can do it, as long as you take it into account in the balancing of the game.

[BrianMcQueso]

You can do it, as long as you take it into account in the balancing of the game.

How significant of an advantage do you think it is? I doesn't directly affect game mechanics (like GF immunity), but it does affect the playing-skill side of Mafia.

[VisMaior]

Well, you tell us. You have most experience with it, as I understand...

[mith]

I don't think this should be allowed in Newbie games. Newbie games should conform to whatever is standard, and Mafia day talk is certainly not standard. I don't want new players getting confused and thinking they can talk outside the thread during day in other games.

I do think it would probably help as a teaching tool, but trial and error is just as valid a way to learn. Mafia buddies can coach their partners during night and after the game is over just as effectively, and it'll probably stick better if they're allowed to mess up rather than the experienced player just dictating to them (I'm not saying that's what happens, but it could).

For other games, if it's thematic, great. At least come up with a plausible flavor reason why it's allowed for the Mafia to talk during day and not the Town.

[Mr. Flay]

As mentioned in another thread, if you allow scum to talk during the day, then you allow them to set up a super-speed lynch. One of the threats of bandwagon jumping in a lynch-or-lose situation is that a pro-town player will come on and notice before someone gets the killing blow. If the two/three of you are hanging out on IM and can post within 37 seconds of each other, that's a decided gameplay advantage (in my world).

As mith said, I'd never allow it in newbie games. If you do in other games, I would *ask* that you tell your players it's possible (effectively, you just have, for people who read this thread), but at the least, it does give scum an advantage when it comes to coordinating claims, countering cop investigations, etc. To think otherwise is naïve; and you may consider including a "Listener" role who can try to detect day-talking. That would certainly curb the worst excesses of it, although you can't prove someone was PMing, IMing, etc.

[MeMe]

I was in a day-talking mafia group in Points Mafia. Here's what I said postgame...

Note: The mafia could communicate in the day. Not sure if that was posted anywhere.

When I saw this in my role I thought "what a LUXURY," but it's truly horrible. When I play scum, I play it straight. I do my best to forget about who my partners are and just go after whoever looks most suspicious. It was IMPOSSIBLE in this game because the "what should we do??" and "quit voting me" emails were nearly constant. All told, we ended up with more than 200 emails back and forth. It was time-consuming and really difficult to play naturally. I think I'll include it as a balancer to weaken scum in my next game...

And we lost.

[Thok]

Besides half the fun as scum is trying to come up with posts that communicate ideas for the current day's strategy to your partners

without

making you look suspicious.

[BabyJesus]

Most of the games I play at FBG allow mafia day-talking, it really isn't THAT much of an advantage.

[inHimshallibe]

Most of the games I play at FBG allow mafia day-talking, it really isn't THAT much of an advantage.

Agreed.

[PolarBoy]

Obviously the original reason that it wasn't possible for mafia to talk during the day is that it would be logistically impossible to keep secret. On the other hand there is a certain appeal to having teammates that one cannot communicate with. Many card games use this mechanic to great effect (Bridge, Spades and Euchre are all good examples).

It also seems like discussion between mafia acts as a kind of kibitzing. Since I just thought of that aspect though, I don't really have anything to say about it.

[Kenji]

What would you think about a mafia group who knew who each other were, but

couldn't

talk at night?

[Fritzler]

What would you think about a mafia group who knew who each other were, but

couldn't

talk at night?

Look at hobbit mafia. It was a horrible idea. (no offense mikehart).
Maybe, if you had them as alpha, beta, and so on, and the top one decided the kill. But, don't make it so they have to agree on kills, that looked like hell.

[Mr. Flay]

Heh, I was one of dem trolls, and it blew...

Kenji: A role similar to what you're talking about is sometimes used as a Traitor, or Mafia Spy... they may even show up as protown to investigation, and use their vote to help the mafia.

[mathcam]

What would you think about a mafia group who knew who each other were, but

couldn't

talk at night?

Look at hobbit mafia. It was a horrible idea. (no offense mikehart).
Maybe, if you had them as alpha, beta, and so on, and the top one decided the kill. But, don't make it so they have to agree on kills, that looked like hell.

Please, you had it easy. In Holy Grail mafia, MMCL, God, and I had to agree on a night kill at night, but

didn't

know who each other were.

Cam

[mathcam]

Sorry, after checking my wiki page, mathcam with JEEP's new wiki links (yay!), I see that it was Saigon and not MMCL who was one of the three heads with me. I think MMCL replaced God or Saigon later.

Cam

[Seol]

What would you think about a mafia group who knew who each other were, but

couldn't

talk at night?

Look at hobbit mafia. It was a horrible idea. (no offense mikehart).
Maybe, if you had them as alpha, beta, and so on, and the top one decided the kill. But, don't make it so they have to agree on kills, that looked like hell.

Were they allowed to talk to each other in pregame? Having to have some agreement on kills (not necessarily unanimous, just a majority) isn't quite so demanding then...

[Fritzler]

Uhh, no I don't think they were allowed to talk pre game.

[Seol]

Uhh, no I don't think they were allowed to talk pre game.

See, allow that and it's a balanced mechanic. Either they agree all possible actions beforehand, which makes it hard to respond dynamically to the game, or they try and communicate surreptitiously via the thread. Makes for an interesting game.