Newbie 1339 - Game Over! (Scum Win)

[Approximately Normal Guy]

@Varsoon, have you played mafia on any other sites before mafiascum?

[Varsoon]

Yes, Varsoon is very much town.

I think attaching an arbitrary number to a player and saying YOU MUST POST THESE MANY TIMES PER DAY OR... is folly. Some people post more substance in one or two posts a day than some other people who post forty times a day.

An arbitrary number is just that, arbitrary.

If you feel someone is lurking (or active lurking), vote them.

If they don't improve their quality of posting, lynch them.

It's very simple.

I can definitely see the value of quality of quantity. However, working on a system of 'feeling' will only lead to disorganization. A line needs to be drawn in the sand. Of course, I encourage everyone else (and try to, myself) to have substance in every post and to lead towards a better game for everyone. If your playstyle is to lurk, post lengthy, quality missives, and that's it, I'm fine with that. You don't -have- to post to the quota, and weekends and holidays make sense, but the quota does allow for the entire playerbase to be more aware of who is and isn't lurking, and to stay in more active communication with each other. All of these things contribute to a better game for everyone, I feel. Mafia has to actually stay on their feet and town gets to feel involved. I like it.

[Varsoon]

@Varsoon, have you played mafia on any other sites before mafiascum?

Nah, this is my first game ever. I learned about the game about two weeks ago. I honestly thought this one would start earlier, haha.
I just figured I'd get the ball rolling. Placation is laaaame.

[Nabber]

I do think a posting quote won't really work for long, since the discussion will quickly become more deep and it'll take longer to post.

That said, posting as much as possible is a huge priority, and I can definitely agree with you on that.

[kuror0]

Everybody looks so happy about Varsoon... anyways. I strongly disagree with the whole quota thing. While I too get really frustrated when people just lurk around, you can't forget people have a real life or sometimes there is nothing important to say, the quota may lead to policy lynchs on inactive players wich can be either way town or scum(and based purely on numbers it is most likely to be town). Also to avoid failing under that "inactivity" state, some people may start fluff posting just to look active wich is not helpfull at all. The whole idea can be really counterproductive for town(And yes i just used town instead of us). Also to avoid inactivity you can vote for people to pressure them, that's usually the best way to promote someone's participation. Also a policy lynch usually doesn't give so much information to town as a normal lynch wich is another huge set back.

On another topic discussing about PRs is also bad for town imo. If there is a claim at any point there are ways to prove it is a legit one, and we will worry about it when the time comes.

Lastly you may notice my english grammar is terrible(maybe my vocabulary too), so if you can't understand what i am trying to say let me know, so i try to make things clear. (I also receive any advice if it helps to improve my grammar )

[Nabber]

(I for one have a lot of homework tonight, so please forgive me if I'm absent at times.)

[Varsoon]

I do think a posting quote won't really work for long, since the discussion will quickly become more deep and it'll take longer to post.

That said, posting as much as possible is a huge priority, and I can definitely agree with you on that.

That's understandable as well, but even with 'deeper' discussion, simply punctuate your responses between each person you are responding to. If everyone holds up the quota, it isn't difficult for discussion to happen. You don't have to grasp at straws for something to talk about because everyone -is- posting and there's always something to reply to or offer insight into. Again, this is all to route out scum and keep us in healthy communication. I think that, as we progress, the quota won't be difficult to uphold and we'll allow more leeway towards it as well.

If you guys have any good ideas, please put 'em forth. Getting out of RVS seems pretty important, and stagnating discussion is something that only benefits scum.

[Varsoon]

Everybody looks so happy about Varsoon... anyways. I strongly disagree with the whole quota thing. While I too get really frustrated when people just lurk around, you can't forget people have a real life or sometimes there is nothing important to say, the quota may lead to policy lynchs on inactive players wich can be either way town or scum(and based purely on numbers it is most likely to be town). Also to avoid failing under that "inactivity" state, some people may start fluff posting just to look active wich is not helpfull at all. The whole idea can be really counterproductive for town(And yes i just used town instead of us). Also to avoid inactivity you can vote for people to pressure them, that's usually the best way to promote someone's participation. Also a policy lynch usually doesn't give so much information to town as a normal lynch wich is another huge set back.

On another topic discussing about PRs is also bad for town imo. If there is a claim at any point there are ways to prove it is a legit one, and we will worry about it when the time comes.

Lastly you may notice my english grammar is terrible(maybe my vocabulary too), so if you can't understand what i am trying to say let me know, so i try to make things clear. (I also receive any advice if it helps to improve my grammar )

Aww, man, sorry to hear that. I don't have much experience with this game, so that does make sense. However!
As far as fluff goes, it should be apparent, which allows us to easily target scum.
There is

always

something important to say.
If we prioritize lynching players who seem more scum over policy lynching inactive players, we have a higher chance to find scum. Why?
If the scum are active, there's a higher chance for them to slip up. This is like being questioned at a police office. They keep you there for awhile to make sure you don't say something contradictory or indicting.
If the scum are inactive, then they are in the pool to be voted for out of inactive players.
This encourages town to be active, to not post fluff, and to be true to themselves. The scum will become apparent.

I like the idea of using votes for pressure, but if we all start becoming voting bullies it'll lead to fights between townies and only foster unhealthy communication.

As for talking about PR's, I do agree. The only reason I mentioned it was to call it to everyone's attention for future notice and to get some discussion started.

[Varsoon]

(I for one have a lot of homework tonight, so please forgive me if I'm absent at times.)

That's totes understandable. I don't think we should enforce a quota during weekends (friday-sunday) and holidays, as most people are super busy in those times. If you do have a busy day, popping in to let us know why is always a better idea than silence.

[kuror0]

As far as fluff goes, it should be apparent, which allows us to easily target scum.

That's the problem by forcing people to post X times during the day you will make towns to post fluff. So it won't direct us to scum but to anyone.

There is

always

something important to say.

Sometimes there isn't, and sometimes personally i like to wait.

If we prioritize lynching players who seem more scum over policy lynching inactive players, we have a higher chance to find scum. Why?

As i said before policy lynches give away much less information than normal lynches, wich is very detrimental for town. Also if we focus on reasons and not on policys we can account people for their actions and that way we can find who is really trying to catch scum and who just want to lynch anyone wich is a scum trait.

My coments on red and i will leave it there cause i have to go. Also i am sure someone can link something that explains why policy lynchs are bad for town.

[Varsoon]

As far as fluff goes, it should be apparent, which allows us to easily target scum.

That's the problem by forcing people to post X times during the day you will make towns to post fluff. So it won't direct us to scum but to anyone.

There is

always

something important to say.

Sometimes there isn't, and sometimes personally i like to wait.

If we prioritize lynching players who seem more scum over policy lynching inactive players, we have a higher chance to find scum. Why?

As i said before policy lynches give away much less information than normal lynches, wich is very detrimental for town. Also if we focus on reasons and not on policys we can account people for their actions and that way we can find who is really trying to catch scum and who just want to lynch anyone wich is a scum trait.

My coments on red and i will leave it there cause i have to go. Also i am sure someone can link something that explains why policy lynchs are bad for town.

Well, clearly. I'm saying that we don't lynch based off of policy, but off of a communal agreement.
No one's forced to do anything. Simply encouraged.
As for your third point, If we, as town, focus on reasons for actions alone, it will be easy for us to identify scum, who are more likely to build a case based off of policy.
I was hoping to not have to spell this out because scum are always watching, but yeah. The whole point to instilling a policy such as a Post Quota is that it engages the players, encourages them to post, and allows everyone to easily identify scum because scum will either not post OR they'll try to manipulate the policy. Town has no reason to manipulate the policy. They're town. The policy exists to protect them.

Regardless of if we decide to have a quota or not, I think we're at the point where lurking/inactivity is going to be more apparent anyway.

[Nobody Special]

My coments on red

Do not do this. Ever.

[Varsoon]

My coments on red

Do not do this. Ever.

Really? I thought comments in blue were the ones we should stray from. I could see how using any color would be bad, though.

I used enlarged text, but I figure that's fine.

[RandomYoshi]

So can we start discussing the

actual game

as opposed to discussing the post quota?

[Nabber]

Posting is part of the actual game, though.

If you want us to discuss, what exactly do you want us to discuss? Be a bit more specific than "the actual game".

[Approximately Normal Guy]

Well, kuror0 makes valid points. Forcing people to talk could create unnecessary fluff for scum to hide behind.

@SE's/IC (can't remember who..I'm on my phone right now and looking back would be a hassle): has anything like this been done before, that you've seen? I can see both the pros and cons, but it would be good if I could look at a past game where the town did this.

[Nobody Special]

It's been tried here and there, and it generally falls by the wayside after Day One.

[Varsoon]

It's been tried here and there, and it generally falls by the wayside after Day One.

With an attitude like that, I can see why.

[RandomYoshi]

Posting is part of the actual game, though.

If you want us to discuss, what exactly do you want us to discuss? Be a bit more specific than "the actual game".

Like, oh I don't know, votes, moves, and all that stuff? You know, deducing who is Scum and who is not?

[RandomYoshi]

Because quite honestly there is currently no such info available for us.

Sure, I might have a Townread on somebody but we need Scumreads on people to lynch correctly. POE won't take you there, I say. Though we know there are two Scum in the setup, we cannot have wrong Townreads that subsequently lead to mislynches.

[RandomYoshi]

@kuror0:
Opinions on Varsoon's play?

[RandomYoshi]

@Everyone:
Comments on the game so far?

[Nabber]

Where's Kitiekatt? They haven't been on since their randomvote.

[kuror0]

@kuror0:
Opinions on Varsoon's play?

I found scumy some of his actions, like discussing about town cop and his quota suggestion, but his level of participation is very high and not something I would see coming from a newbie scum, so for now I would place him as mildly scumy.

[Nobody Special]

@Everyone:
Comments on the game so far?

Bland, boring, needs to get started.

Someone do something scummy, so we can get started lynching.